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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
So I thought I would post this here, before starting a project and posting in the project log (as I want something to show for my rambling in that area rather than just posting a bunch of nonsense about my ideas). I would love to hear opinions on how plausible this would be, or if not plausible - if it would still be cool to do. My buddy and I have been talking about trying out the fan based Killzone rules, and he decided to do a squad of Deathwatch. I need to do something equally cool for a 10 man squad, yet still have it fit into my BA army as a tactical squad.

My idea is a squad of Veterans, but not how GW portrays them. I wanted to do a squad of Veteran Aspirants. For example, using the Ad Mech shoulder pads and chest piece from a SM tank sprue and a half bionic bare head - this would be a normal Marine in training so to speak and Aspiring to become a Tech Marine or a Master of the Forge. Another marine may be modeled with scrolls and books and purity seals, I would model him to look like a psyker and he may be aspiring to be a Librarian. A Marine with a heavy bolter aspiring to be a Devastators Sergeant, a Chaplain Aspirant, etc. There would be a unity of colour Scheme to tie them together, but they would be noticably different from eachother and it would be obvious what each is aspiring towards. Just have so many bits, I thought it might be cool to do, and to post my progess as I go.


All models would be used as normal Space Marines (for gaming purposes), it will just be a very diverse squad, and in my opinion it would look cool on the gaming table.

Opinions? If it sounds like a cool idea and it would remotely fit with fluff, I will go ahead and start it up and post the progress on the project log. I was also influenced by "littleboyblues" colour scheme (from DakkDakka), but would of course tweak it to make it my own. Anyways, enough rambling, sorry for the wall of text - let me know what you think!

Thanks
 

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I`m not aware of any fluff which positively states that aspirants would not be grouped to a squad at some point in their "careers" so to speak. But I don`t think they`d have specific markings. Then again I could be wrong.

Also, in my opinion, such conversions deserve more prestige than a mere tactical squad. Sternguard perhaps? :wink:
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Sternguard would be cool, good call. That didn't occur to me. I figured there wasn't any fluff to match the idea, but I thought it would be a cool alternative to scouts fluff wise. My ideas behind them are that they all have proven themselves time and time again in battle and are hardened verterans. At the same time, they are still learning, being taught behind the scenes in their Fortress Monastary by actual Chaplains, Librarians, etc. They are always first picked/first to volunteer for the insanely suicidal covert missions, and miraculously return in one piece successful.


Modern military structure influenced the idea, we have squads of troops, containing members with different specialties. In reality, you won't have a squad of all snipers and a single missile launcher like you see in Scouts. You would have a scout and his sighter, a missile launcher, some automatic weapon fire, a heavy machine gun, grenadiers, a medic or two, etc. Same with what I am thinking of doing, squad composition would be:


- Sergeant (Using the Master of Recruits model)
- Apothecary (Aspiring to become a Sanguinary Priest - in games it would count as a Sanguinary Priest...Ironic)
- A Space Marine modeled to look like a Chaplain, Aspiring to become one
- A Space Marine studying to become a Tech Priest/Master of the forge (Using Ad Mech shoulder pads and chest peice from a tank sprue and bionic bits)
- 2 Space Marines trying to prove their worth to become Terminators (Using 2 Crux SM shoulder pads, modeled to look like Spec Ops)
-Standard Bearer, awaiting the honour to carry the Chapter Banner
- 2 Special/Heavy Weapons(who knows what they want haha havent thought that one through yet)
- 1 Marine striving for a place in the Sanguinary Guard


Completely off the top of my head "only had 2 hours of sleep last night" bullshit, but I think it might turn out pretty cool if I can come up with some good fluff to really back it up. Mine is somewhat weak
 

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Depending on how many you end up with, some of them are certainly more melee oriented (Librarian, Chaplain) and would work well as Vanguard Vets. Force weapon/crozius could then be power weapons. The Aspiring Techmarine could count as having a power fist to represent a servo arm. Those aspiring to be CC Termies would carry hammers or claws. The Sanguinary guard would also fit well here.

Then those striving to be ranged weapons characters could be Sternguard. Termies could have storm bolters or power fist as a sergeant, and the heavy weapons Marines would find their home here. The banner bearer could probably also fit into this squad.

Ultimately it's up to you, but either way post links to the project log here once you get started :biggrin:
 

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love these idea's I'm just excited to see the models as they come along. Get some sleep and come up with some good fluff to back this up and it'd be pretty awesome. Keep us posted, wish I had more to add, but it sounds like you got good advice already good luck man.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 · (Edited)
I will definitely post updates. If I'm not careful, this may end up getting way carried away and turning into an army haha. I wanted to start my own chapter of elitist Space Marines called the Angelus Censura (Angels of Judgement). They are recruited in a way similiar to Deathwatch and came into play around the same time. However, rather than spend their time hunting a certain species, they track down and re-aquire lost relics. They also work closely with the Mechanicum and try to capture foreign technology to add to their knowledge banks and improve tactics and warfare, however, they hold this information close and guard it from most of the Imperium. They are extremely secrative, and have no real force organization, each squad containing a mix of specialties which adds to their foreign tactics during battle. Only known to be about 200 in strength, they often pop up during battle and then quickly vanish shortly before the battles end. It has caused a lot of speculation among Other chapters, as well as the Imperium - What looks like reinforcements turns out to be a few mixed squads (which would appear extremely unorganized in structure to most). To add to the confusion, the would-be reinforcements vanish within a few hours of when they arrived, seemingly having done nothing to aid imperial forces. However, in every instance these strange marines are sighted, victory for the Imperium in that battle follows quickly.

This project squad may end up doubling as a squad for this new army as well as for my Blood Angels. I would need to work up an army list, and would want to keep it small, yet practical and semi-competative (My BA are more of a competative kick ass army) while this new one I want to do will be fun, and rather than focus on one specialty like my BA and Close Combat, it will be more of a "jack all trades" army.
 

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Something like a modern day SF team. Each team usually has a specialist in each area, like one demo, one coms, one doc and all the other areas that might need to be hit by a team of this nature. The only issue I see is actually designing an entire army around these squads. Obviously an SF group wouldn't deploy with Heavy Tanks, but a Land Raider and maybe some Land Speeders. But that'd make them a fast attack like you're BA, I dont know something to think about...
 

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This all seems a bit far-fetched.

An aspiring techmarine would have already been sent to Mars for his training. If this is prior to this, it's unlikely for him to be extensively outfitted with bionics.

According to the Space Marine codex "Apthocaries rigiously screen potential recruits for any sign of genetic deviation." It then goes on about the pysker mutation. Any marine that is found both sound of mind and body that is promoted into the ranks of the Chapter start off as a Lexicanium--the lowest rank of Librarians in a Chapter. He doesn't aspire--he is already.

How one becomes a Chaplain is not known to me.

The Devastator one actually makes a bit of sense. As generally the more experienced brothers within a Chapter are placed in tactical squads. He may have a particular affinity for heavy weapons and a firm understanding of leadership that may make him a wise choice to lead a Devastator squad in the future. How you're going to model that, I don't know.

What I'm mostly saying is that most marines either are their role (or some lower form of it) or are otherwise normal battle-brothers. This sort of half-yes half-no probably wouldn't sit well with the Codex.
 

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True, but the Blood Angels are not as strict adherants as the boys in blue are, so we have a little bit of leniency.

Besides, as homebrews go, this one makes enough sense to work imo. Believe me, I have seen some batshit crazy conversions in a few armies and the fluff behind them is even more ludicrous.

But not everyone takes fluff as seriously as me, and I likewise am not as close minded as others...
 

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The Blood Angels follow the codex rather closely. As the SM codex states, "Others are largely organized according to the Codex but have slight variations, such as the Blood Angels and Dark Angels."

And I assume the main difference for the BA Sanguinary Guard and Death Company. Neither of which are important for this thread. So for our purposes, the BA are a codex chapter.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 · (Edited)
This all seems a bit far-fetched.

An aspiring techmarine would have already been sent to Mars for his training. If this is prior to this, it's unlikely for him to be extensively outfitted with bionics.

According to the Space Marine codex "Apthocaries rigiously screen potential recruits for any sign of genetic deviation." It then goes on about the pysker mutation. Any marine that is found both sound of mind and body that is promoted into the ranks of the Chapter start off as a Lexicanium--the lowest rank of Librarians in a Chapter. He doesn't aspire--he is already.

How one becomes a Chaplain is not known to me.

The Devastator one actually makes a bit of sense. As generally the more experienced brothers within a Chapter are placed in tactical squads. He may have a particular affinity for heavy weapons and a firm understanding of leadership that may make him a wise choice to lead a Devastator squad in the future. How you're going to model that, I don't know.

What I'm mostly saying is that most marines either are their role (or some lower form of it) or are otherwise normal battle-brothers. This sort of half-yes half-no probably wouldn't sit well with the Codex.

Yeah that all makes sense, however, if it were an Apothecary aspiring to be a Sanguinary Priest, or a Techmarine aspiring to become a Master of the Forge, then it would possibly fit better with the codexes. They are already the role, but as you mentioned they are a "lower form" of that role, trying to prove their worth to be promoted. Then the mix of the squad will fit in with the new chapter I want to do, however I will have to work on the squads to make them work with the fluff of being diverse in specialties yet be playable and make sense. I don't want to have a cool looking army with awesome fluff that just plays like a joke on the battle field lol

And like I mentioned before, they will all most likely 'count as' space marines. The only problem I may run into will be my HQ choice, which may have to be a special character to make sure the HQ is at a higher level than the librarians and such.
 

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not the same codex or chapter but I think the Space Wolves have a half way stage between initiates and full marine, they start as cubs (scouts) then Blood Claws then full Grey Hunter (full marine)
All new space marines are put into the blood claws irrespective of their future role in the chapter, whether librarian (rune priest) or any other rank - dont know about the tech marines though.
In the BA sense an equivalent to blood claws would be full of diverse aspirants as needed, if the BA's have an equivalent.
 

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The thing is, BA apothecaries ARE Sanguinary Priests. They're one in the same, to my knowledge. There's no separation. So that squad member is either an apothecary and a Sanguinary Priest, or he is neither.

You may have a Techmarine aspiring to become a Master of the Forge. But keep in mind MotF is a rank within the chapter, not some level of ability. There can only be one MotF, and so long as he's kicking your techmarine can't ascend. Also keep in mind then he IS a techmarine and hence special--which doesn't fit in with your squad being regular space marines hoping to become whatever they so desire. If he isn't a techmarine and is hoping to become one, he'd be sent to Mars to perform his 30 year tutelage under the Martian adepts.

MuSigma--Actually, contrary to other chapters, Space Wolf neophytes don't become scouts. They're thrown straight in as Blood Claws. From there they become Grey Hunters, to Long Fangs, then Wolf Guard (hopefully!) and possibly command of a Great Company or even the Chapter!

The SW scouts are actually drawn from the Grey Hunters.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Well I need to figure out a way to make it all work, I have some cool conversion ideas, but the way they will look wouldnt fit for them to be full fledged Tech Marines or Chaplains as they will look more like Space Marines. I will just work it into the fluff of the Chapter I want to make up. Then with my Chapter, I will create a distinction between a Sanguinary Priest and an Apothecary, creating two levels of honour. While an Apothecary may has somewhat of a same role, the Sanguinary Priest has more of an honourable role within the Chapter. Won't give up on this idea - seems like way too much fun to convert
 

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Yeah. Codex marines just don't deal with this, really. Most roles are singled out early based upon genetics or affinity.

Feel free to make your own chapter where a marine begins as a regular battle brother and then eases himself into a new role.

Now I'm off to bed. I'll read up in the morning and see if I can give any more advice!
 

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Supposing you divide them? The combat oriented roles in a vanguard squad, the shooty ones as sternguard?

That way your conversions will be suitable to their roles.

On the fluff side, the tech guy doesn`t have to be in training. Perhaps he is just now developing an interest in machines, and has formed a kind of comaraderie with one of the techmarines, learning a few things informally while he decides whether or not to transfer to Mars?

A similar story might work with the sanguinary priest, and the aspiring sergeants are simply looking to prove themselves worthy of promotion.

I cannot remember the source for this, so it may not be codex relevant, but I`m pretty sure aspiring librarians still spend at least a portion of their careers attached to a squad. Don`t quote me on that though, I think it`s space wolf related...
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Yeah, two squads of 5 instead of 1 squad of 10 would work. I will have to look into that for sure. I am thinking of also using Dark Angel robed heads, might add to the whole look - make them look like Acolytes or something. Bits are expensive, at what they go for I might as well buy a whole box and get a ton of extra bits rather than pay what battlewagon wants for 4 or 5.
 
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