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Evening all,

Bit of a random one for you tonight I'm afraid.

I know Scouts have Camo cloaks when they need to conceal themselves. But what about your fully fledged Space Marine in his Power Armour?

I know Space Marines are essentially elite hard hitting shock troopers who's general warfighting intent is hard surgical strikes at the enemys most curcial locations - so in that sense running around big and blue, or red, or any bright colour doesn't make any difference, maybe it even helps the shock and awe factor. Plus you then have the Power Armour to take into consideration which can protect the Space Marine through a hell of alot of fire/ordanance.

But, how much more effective would say a Devastator Squad be if they were in a concealed Fire Posistion pouring rounds down onto the enemy in support of their brethren, sure their weapon systems would give them away but it'd be harder to direct fire onto them if their Armour also helped them blend into their surroundings.

Or a Tactical Squad lieing in Ambush in the countryside, for them to lie concealed before springing said Ambush they'd pretty much have to be behind something solid which is an obvious firing point to the enemy when it does kick off.

Yes, armour protects, but imagine if the enemy sporadically popping up from behind cover to snap a few rounds off didn't have giant blue targets to aid him, what if those targets took a few seconds longer to aquire, that's a few less rounds being fire or longer time exposed which probably equals his death.

Plus it makes the enemys job of doing a quick head-count estimate of their attackers much easier, if your fire support and reserved are better concealed your enemy has a much harder time realising the attack is a small strike force and not an entire Brigade!

Thoughts on a post-card :biggrin:

Bayonet
 

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But, how much more effective would say a Devastator Squad be if they were in a concealed Fire Posistion pouring rounds down onto the enemy in support of their brethren, sure their weapon systems would give them away but it'd be harder to direct fire onto them if their Armour also helped them blend into their surroundings.
Hard to imagine a Devastator Squad benefiting from any type of concealment with a pair of Heavy Bolters and the contrails of a few Rocket Launchers showing exactly where they are.


Yes, armour protects, but imagine if the enemy sporadically popping up from behind cover to snap a few rounds off didn't have giant blue targets to aid him, what if those targets took a few seconds longer to aquire, that's a few less rounds being fire or longer time exposed which probably equals his death.
Very true, but I think that is what is behind the design of the Space Marine: they are built so cover and concealment aren't as important. Surely they don't have the same fear of conventional munitions that an IG would have.

And Terminators? They pretty much shuffle around with a big banner over their heads screaming "Who wants some!?".

I think it's stating the obvious when I say that Astartes prefer the direct approach (for the most part - stares at White Scars / Alpha Legion)

Plus it makes the enemys job of doing a quick head-count estimate of their attackers much easier, if your fire support and reserved are better concealed your enemy has a much harder time realising the attack is a small strike force and not an entire Brigade!
Space Marines never worry about numbers though, because they acknowledge that against those who would concern themselves about numbers, a Space Marine is worth 10x their number compared to conventional forces. So a Company of 100 Space Marines would be worth 1000 troops, or some such.

The Astartes project the image of "we are so badass, we don't need as many troops to whoop your ass".

Scouts using Camo gear is more about fulfilling their objective (info gathering, sabotage, flanking / infiltration) than it is about protection, even though their armor isn't as substantial as that of a full battle-brother.

I have no doubt that under certain circumstances, a Space Marine would use camo gear to assist them in accomplishing their objective. But to make it a part of their standard arsenal? Nah, I just wouldn't mesh well with the SM art of war.
 

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The Ultramarines use camo cloaks on their power armored troops in Courage and Honor briefly. There is nothing in the Codex Astartes that is against the use of camo. Indeed I believe that it contains information how to use it but some chapters are too proud to use it. (Like in 4th edition ''Pride in Your Colors'')
 

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Grand Lord Munchkin
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It's a psychological thing. They want the enemy to see them marching tward them. That and most marines don't do strealth, they do shock and awe. The armor just contributes to that.
 

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I am Alpharius.
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They are to proud to use it, and they want the enemy to know who comes to take their head even before they shout "Who wants some!?!???" and start waving around with the biggest banner on the battlefield....
 

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Guardsman's thoughts upon spotting a low wall: "Awesome, cover! This will DOUBLE my life expectancy!"
Space Marine's thoughts upon spotting a low wall: "Great, another piece of crap in my way..."
That's basically how it goes.
 

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I'm certain someone somewhere will eventually create a custom chapter that will focus more on stealth. I'd love to see some custom camouflage schemes on space marines, woodland or otherwise. While brightly colored warriors may shock and awe, imagine the fear of watching superhuman giants simply appear out of the foliage dealing the Emperor's judgement.

As for Devastators and other issues of weapon/stealth practicality, Space Marines of some chapters have access to the wonderful things we call Stalker rounds. Quiet, less muzzle flare, and just as deadly. I'm sure some chapter will have modified them for heavy bolters. And missile launchers could be modified to work like the modern Javelin with a high arc, preventing hostiles from acquiring the source. Lascannons firing outside the visible spectrum would be a feat for the Techmarines to acheive.

The possibilities go on!
 

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Pally-HO!!!!
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One of the most rediculous things I've ever seen was a unit of Imperial Fist Scout snipers. Bright yellow armor with a bright red cloak, painted by the 'Eavy Metal team. I remember having a BSOD for a few minutes trying to come to terms with what I had just witnessed.
 

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One of the most rediculous things I've ever seen was a unit of Imperial Fist Scout snipers. Bright yellow armor with a bright red cloak, painted by the 'Eavy Metal team. I remember having a BSOD for a few minutes trying to come to terms with what I had just witnessed.
hey maybe they were fighting on a giant...bright red...planet...thing fuck there really is no reason that would work
 

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Stealth isn't really the way most SM's fight so their use for camo would be minimal.

However thats not to say some don't use stealth often...

Raven Guard, Night Lords and Pre Heresy Alpha Legion have all used stealth tactics so to assume they're not using camo in some way i.e. dulling their blades or something would be a bit of a leap in the wrong direction.

Also some of the more "traditional" legions have shown stealth tendencies.

The Ventris books point towards a few instances where SM's infiltrate, for lack of a better word. Honsou goes stealth in Storm of Iron while Ventris does it in one of the short stories.
 

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hey maybe they were fighting on a giant...bright red...planet...thing fuck there really is no reason that would work
Well, unless he was concealed in front of the following billboard:

 

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Guardsman's thoughts upon spotting a low wall: "Awesome, cover! This will DOUBLE my life expectancy!"
Space Marine's thoughts upon spotting a low wall: "Great, another piece of crap in my way..."
That's basically how it goes.
lol, ty for the signature :eek:k:
 

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wait what about the raptor's dont they use camo?
Not really. Their chapter colours are quite dull and as a result may blend in with some environments better than say the imperial fists but I would think that was co-incidental if they deployed on say a desert battlefield.

The Executioners howeever do have a camouflaged colour scheme
 

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All Space Marines have Camoflage. You'll see in the Badab War Books. If you have it, check out the Badab War Uprising from WD101 (long time ago, I know), or the BoLS campaign pdf - that contains the camoflage patterns from then. However, this was before the whole modernisation of the Chapters into their current set up. Of course, the Raptors colour scheme is now intended to be camoflaged - they used to be bright yellow and blue, so that is their 'new' camoflage.

In addition, the Raptors do use Camoflage - the notable example I'm thinking of is the Angelis Campaign - check out IA:2 SM+Inq, there's a Rhino which shows the camo pattern.



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Three reasons why Camouflage and Astartes don't mix.

1. Camouflage /is/ the color of cowardice.

2. Painting over the colors of a suit of armour is known to anger its spirit.

3. A real marine dose not need the extra protection camouflage would offer. The Emperor protects and faith in HIM is all the shield they need.
 
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