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Discussion Starter #1
Do you think these will be made more competitive in the next codex? I really want to use them as I especially love the new Assault company model and my army is called the Warmongers and the name kind of lends itself to being aggressive.
 

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Are they not competitive now ?
 

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Discussion Starter #3
They seem awfully expensive for what they can do and I've read codices like Dark Angels have had their assault troops reduced in cost.
 

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DA Assaulters are 1 point cheaper however the base squad of 5 is 10 points cheaper.

They do get the Hammer of Wrath attacks now which are a nice addition.
 

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It should would be interesting if they were more competitive. Maybe there will be an HQ ability that allows them to be counted as troops, which would definitely help. I'm kind of a fan of the new Games Workshop bundles too, if I ever get $500 just laying around I'd love to spend it on an Emperor's Fist company haha
 

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Unlikely. The problem is, they're likely to be sharing a slot with Vanguard Veterans (unless there's an option to use them as Troops), which are either going to be prohibitively expensive as assault troops (65pts each for Power Weapons and Jump Packs? Even Warp Talons are better than that, and they're never used), or so cheap that they're going to outweigh the Assault Troops capabilities (like if Sternguard were a Troops choice).

They'd need at least the use of Meltaguns to make them near useable, and cheaper access to Meltabombs, but that would just make them Monstrous Creature hunters as opposed to actual assault troops.

However that would render people questioning what would make Blood Angels different (and not just taking Bloodbombs or BloodAssault BloodTroopBloods with BloodchainBloodswords), so I can't see that happening. Still, GW Design team is not the most well thought out.

However, with Assault, Hammer of Wrath and 2 Attacks base they can put out a decent amount of attacks. Throwing a Meltabomb/Relic Blade character and a Power Axe Sergeant is a decent way to cut through enemy MEQ's.



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SPESS MAHREEN assault MAHREENS have been a useless choice ever since I've started playing, they hit like wet paper, and have the stamina of wet paper, it seems GW cannot make them any good even outside the stupid competitive enviroments
 

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Discussion Starter #8 (Edited)
Can they be transported by a crusader? Technically if you leave their packs off they can but what about with them on?

Edit: Turn's out they can't.
 

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Can they be transported by a crusader? Technically if you leave their packs off they can but what about with them on?
Yes they can, they are bulky with the packs so take up 2 slots (like a terminator).

To many people the primary "problem" with assault marines is that they are not TH/SS TEQ. There are more efficient assault units in the codex that offer more for a more competitive points cost.

Assault marines don't stand up much better than tacs to other melee centered units and don't kill much faster in melee against shooty units than tacs. What they do offer is mobility, which is important if you are playing on tables with an average amount of terrain (10-12 pieces with some LoS blocking) which allows them to advance quickly jumping in such a way as to avoid the brunt of gunlines and strike where needed. However, since most "competitive" environments run with less terrain than they should and rarely include decent LoS blocking terrain their mobility usually just means they get shot first by a gunline before they can strike.

As for making them more "competitive"? As long as Assault Marines compete with Bikes, Vanguard Vets, and TH/SS Termies and offer no reliable way to be scoring troops, they will be eschewed in the competitive environment. A points reduction and perhaps smaller squad size is probably coming (looking to the DA dex), but that will not alter the reasons they are overlooked.

The best way to make Assault Marines competitive would be to move them into the Tau codex...where a fast melee-centric unit would fill a hole in the gunline focused codex. :p
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Yes they can, they are bulky with the packs so take up 2 slots (like a terminator).

To many people the primary "problem" with assault marines is that they are not TH/SS TEQ. There are more efficient assault units in the codex that offer more for a more competitive points cost.

Assault marines don't stand up much better than tacs to other melee centered units and don't kill much faster in melee against shooty units than tacs. What they do offer is mobility, which is important if you are playing on tables with an average amount of terrain (10-12 pieces with some LoS blocking) which allows them to advance quickly jumping in such a way as to avoid the brunt of gunlines and strike where needed. However, since most "competitive" environments run with less terrain than they should and rarely include decent LoS blocking terrain their mobility usually just means they get shot first by a gunline before they can strike.

As for making them more "competitive"? As long as Assault Marines compete with Bikes, Vanguard Vets, and TH/SS Termies and offer no reliable way to be scoring troops, they will be eschewed in the competitive environment. A points reduction and perhaps smaller squad size is probably coming (looking to the DA dex), but that will not alter the reasons they are overlooked.

The best way to make Assault Marines competitive would be to move them into the Tau codex...where a fast melee-centric unit would fill a hole in the gunline focused codex. :p
Read in the rule book that jump troops can't be transported unless it's specifically said under the transport it can (like it does for the stormraven) so it appears they can't.
 

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I think the last time assault marines were really scary was in 2nd edition. The nice thing about assault potentially, is that you can kill the enemy in your turn, and in their turn - so if you have a strong unit and they make it to the enemy, then they can make back their points. In second ed it was entirely possible for an assault squad and a character with a jump pack to slaughter their way across the enemy deployment.

However since the fundamental changes in 3rd edition assault marines haven't been as useful. Their cost has been out of sync with their combat effectiveness. So that means either their role has fundamentally changed, e.g. to be vehicle hunters/ monstrous creature hunters or just more mobile fighters; or its an error and their points need to be reduced or their abilities need to be increased.
 

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Read in the rule book that jump troops can't be transported unless it's specifically said under the transport it can (like it does for the stormraven) so it appears they can't.
Ah, under the transport rules. Missed that line (which probably should have been in the Unit Type description for Jump troops). Unfortunate because I think it might be fun to use a LR to shunt some Assault Marines forward and have them fly out and charge. :)
 

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Unlikely. The problem is, they're likely to be sharing a slot with Vanguard Veterans (unless there's an option to use them as Troops), which are either going to be prohibitively expensive as assault troops (65pts each for Power Weapons and Jump Packs? Even Warp Talons are better than that, and they're never used), or so cheap that they're going to outweigh the Assault Troops capabilities (like if Sternguard were a Troops choice).
Vanguard Vets are an Elite Choice and will likely remain that way as they're 1st Company (much like Sternguard and Terminators are).

That small bit of information aside, it seems to me that people are over relying on Assault Marines to dive into massive units and murder their way through. The thing is that Assault Marines are just that, Marines, which means they'll only ever be decent. Sure there are worse units out there, and there are definitely better, but Marines are, and will likely always be, middle of the road with a good save. Not too weak, not too strong, not too numerous, not too elite.

Really from what I've gathered is that Assault Marines are best hunting things like Devastators, weakened objective holders and the like. You throw them at a unit that is more shooty and less punchy and as long as you did it right, you can kill them off the board, freeing up that objective for you to hold, ect. If you're using them to kill hordes, then bring flamers, go for the full squads and be willing/prepared to double/triple team those mobs (depending on if we're talking 30 Orks or 90 Guardsmen in a mob) with multiple Assault Marine squads so you can be sure they'll be able to put out enough wounds to get the unit to the other side.
 

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Here's my suggestion: Make ASM and Devs Troops. Significantly drop the points of Tac squads and Scouts, while making Scouts WS4 BS4 and S3 T3 with Sniper Rifles and 2x CCWs. Lastly, give Tac Marines salvo fire with their boltguns.

4 viable Troops choices that do very different jobs. ASM are your fast melee threat, Tacs are your mid-table anti-infantry, Devs are your fire support and Scouts are your swiss army knives/disruption.

If people think that's open to abuse then "For every Tactical Squad taken in a Primary Detachment then an Assault or Devastator Squad may be taken as Troops instead of Fast Attack or Heavy Support respectively."
 

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Play a chapter of your choosing from the BA dex/ally in BA for RAS troops. Problem solved.

Making them troops for the vanilla dex would take away from the majestic unicorn that is the Blood Angels. As a Fast Attack choice from the Vanilla dex them being lowered in points cost would make them at least a decent chioce, but yeah. Still nothing to write home about.
 
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