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Something odd about the Bonesabres

5068 Views 76 Replies 19 Participants Last post by  ChaosRedCorsairLord
Thus not familiar, the Tyranid Special character named the Swarmlord has weapons that if you pass an invulnerable save made against inflicted wounds by the swarmlord, you must reroll them.

So I was looking at the bonesabre rule, I noticed that it makes no mention of you having to reroll only once. I just checked the official GW Tyranid FAQ and they make no mention of it either. Now I believe you'd only have to reroll a passed save once since I don't think I've ever come across an instance where you had to keep rerolling until you fail.

However, I'm wondering that since there is no official ruling that states that the bonesabre's wounds only force one reroll, could you argue that your opponent must keep rerolling his Inv until he receives a wound? Or is there a rule in the BGB that I'm overlooking that supersedes this?

Just a thought, what do you all think?
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Bonesabres and Fateweavers rerolled invuls would effectively cancel each other out.

Heres why:
Roll your saves. Reroll all your fails (fateweaver) and all your successes (sabres). Or in otherwords, reroll everything you get no matter what.
The second roll of the dice is 100% rerolls, so can never be re-re-rolled.

Looking at from a logical perspective, if your going to reroll your entire first roll, why roll it in the first place? In fact why not just roll the dice once and call it your second roll.
(This works for Fortuned Warlocks as well.)
I am not actually.

You are talking about the idea that if you flip a coin. No matter how many times you flip a coin, you always have a fifty-fifty chance of heads or tails.

This concept, like all statistics, requires a large sample to be true. When you have at most 5 or 6 dice when all are rolled, it is not a large enough sample for what you are saying to apply.

Depending on which side of 4+ the save falls, the probability will change. If you make a 6+, it is a 1 in 6 chance. If you have to re-roll it, you still have a 1 in 6 chance. If you are only rolling 4 dice, odds are not in you favor.

However, this is not about statistics, it is about rules and when rules apply. You can houserules it to say you only roll one dice, but that is not what the rules say. When eldar and swarmlord meet, you always roll a second dice depending on which rule is invoked and only one reroll happens as of the rule book.

Eldar only applies if you fail. Swarmlord only applies if you pass. One re-roll.
I'm actually quite qualified to rebute your assumption.
I'm a math tutor at the college I attend, with a special interest in statistics.
(It's why my friends say I play mathammer, not warhammer!)
Since you said statistics, I will elaborate in said language.
What your describing is true, but only if your accepting the first rolls have value.
But since the first roll has no elements in any set related to the outcome, and only the second roll has elements in either the PASS set, or the FAIL set, the first roll is discounted completely.

The probabilities related to what you roll in the first rolling, are not related to what you roll in the second set.

I see what your trying to say, that you should have a minimum number of rolls and that if you roll more dice, the mean should hit 3.5, but in fact, it allready does, its just that its not easily recognizable when your rolling less then 30 or 40 dice.

Your assumption that by rolling the first set it will improve the mean of the second set is flawed in this way. The mean already exists, rolling more dice will not cause it to change, only become more visable to us humans.

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