[Someguy]

I thought I'd make a post for my list, rather than hijacking Martin's.

I need a new army and, since I lack skill and originality, I'm looking at double lash lists to see if they live up to the hype. Here is today's version.

Sorceror with MOS and lash. 125
Er, another Sorceror with MOS and lash. 125 :nono:

6 terminators, MoS, reaper, power fist, pair of claws, 2 combi plasma. 250
4 terminators, MoCG, reaper, 2 fists, 1 combi melta. 180
4 terminators, MoCG, reaper, 1 fist, 2 combi plasma. 175

5 khorne berzerkers, champion, power wep. 135
5 khorne berzerkers, champion, power wep. 135

Oblitorator. 75
5 Havocs. 1 lascannon and 2 autocannons. 150
5 Havocs. 1 lascannon and 2 autocannons. 150

Fairly simple plan. Everything starts on the table and mostly runs forward, hoping that enemy units get dragged in by lash. The havocs and reapers hope to threaten mech, which are the obvious downfall to lash armies.

The autocannons in the havoc units are interchangeable with missile launchers. I think I prefer the autocannons though.

8 scoring units isn't a lot but it's not ridiculously few either. I like how all of my units are quite dangerous. Initiative 5 power weapon attacks can do quite a lot of damage before people strike back.

 

[Fallen Angel]

If you don't want to be original, why are your sorcerers not flying? Makes lash a million times scarier.

Personally i don't like beserkers, more so given your whole army is basically expensive 5 man squads. The suggestion i'd make is probably to drop a terminator squad (especially if you're walking them and not really using the combi-weapons up close), bulk up the havocs (i found you really need 2 havocs for each gun) and do something more with the troop choices.

 

[Someguy]

Some good points, and some I disagree with.

The sorcerors don't have wings because I want them on the board in escalation games. Now I agree that according to RAW they appear to do just that, but I'm looking at making an army I can still use in a year or so, by which time a faq may be out. I think that in general I'd either have winged DPs or infantry sorcs, which seems to take best advantage of the basic qualities of both.

I struggle with picking troops choices to be honest. The berzerkers have some good points though I think. They charge at WS, str, and intitiative 5 and have a bunch of attacks. I think they could really take apart horde units. I actually think they are worth the increase from standard CSMs, which is probably what I'd take otherwise. They are certainly more fun than a couple of units of guys with plasma guns, which is probably the main alternative.

Other cult units probably don't work in my configuration. I'm pretty unimpressed by thousand sons and noise marines are hugely expensive. Plague marines might well be effective in sufficient numbers, but I don't have a lot of points to play with.

Basically there's no troops choice that looks especially good to me so I've taken the berzerkers for fun. It does mean I'll have five units of pretty scary close combat guys advancing on the enemy, hopefully getting accelerated by charging and massacring from lashed things.

I'd have more guys in the havoc squads if I had points available. They may get away with it if my opponent is more interested in shooting up berzerkers and terminators but I can't rely on that.

 

[jigplums]

in that list i think straight swaping the havocs with 2 oblits might be wise, and reducing the termies down to get the single oblit a partner giving you 3x2 oblits would be better. The synergy of termis and oblits is much better than the havocs.

 

[Someguy]

More oblitorators would be a thought. Mobile firepower, if fewer guns overall. More lascannons... Hard choice. To be honest I'm not a big fan of oblitorators. I've beaten too many iron warriors armies with my tau to rate them highly.

The hardest armies for me to face are going to be mech. I've played mech a lot myself and I know that I'd be quite a lot more worried about a couple of buildings full of heavy weapons with lots of wounds than some oblitorators, where every shot can potentially take one of my lascannons off the board.

I think that the havocs will need to have another model or two in each unit. They need to be large enough that a falcon flying on knows it can't expect to win a shoot out if they are going to be viable. Also it's interesting that all havocs, even the guys with heavy weps, get two ccws. If there's nothing else for them to do their charge is as good as an assault marine. In escalation games they might actually bundle forwards with everyone else while waiting for targets to show up.

 

[jigplums]

in which case why so many termies. I think at the moment there the thing holding the list back. Sure they have alot of punch, but only if they get into range and you have no obvious icon for them to teleport onto. Droping them would give you the points you need to beef up your havoc's, then maybe take some chosen for infiltrate special weapons, applying pressure to skimmers and armour, and early charge threats.
Maybe keep in one small termie squad for DS-ing?

 

[Someguy]

The default strategy for this army is to use lash to accellerate my guys.

I pick a bigish enemy unit and double lash it towards me, spreading it out as much as I can. I'd probably grab the toughest thing I could to charge, like a death company or seer council, so I could take it out of the game straight off. Everything that is able to then charges the unit to get a 6" assault move boost and probably another d6" massacre (or better yet, stays locked through my opponent's turn). If that goes wrong, say if a lash fails or I get low numbers moved, then at least I can unload my combi weps into the unit. I think that I should usually close

Obviously there's a little more subtlety I could introduce to the plan. Starting from a base of not very much subtlety at all. I'll want to limit the amount of stuff that can counter charge me and enemies with plasma guns will be targetted as a priority as well. Actually fast units and stuff with close range firepower will be prime candidates for the "speed bump" unit I feed my assault guys.

Hopefully this explaints why I've gone for a bunch of slow assault units - I bring the enemy to them. With good lash results I'll sometimes be able to get first turn charges from lots of guys and turn 2 charges are more or less guaranteed if there are infantry present.

 

[O'sharan]

drop the sorcerers for princes as they are so much better. ANd scoring!! MC remember.

And correct me if i'm wrong arent Ic's off the board in Escalation as they are not infantry!?!?!

oblits are amazing "look we now have grow badass plasma cannnons" yeh

 

[Someguy]

Sorcerors are infantry unless upgraded to jump infantry. They do start on the board. The scoring unit thing is a problem I agree but I like that my sorcs can't be picked out. I think that lash DPs will tend to get a lot of hate thrown at them and die fairly fast.

Oblitorators are indeed good, almost annoyingly so. I'm running out of arguments against using them but I really don't like the models. :headbutt:

 

[O'sharan]

Buy choas termies and convert with some green stuff

I love the models but there dead expensive

 

[Someguy]

I'm actually thinking of a slightly more radical conversion. Something based on the ogre kingdoms guys with cannons for example, or forgeworld's chaos ogryn: http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/renogs.htm

 

[Skcuzzlebumm]

I'm actually thinking of a slightly more radical conversion. Something based on the ogre kingdoms guys with cannons for example, or forgeworld's chaos ogryn: http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/renogs.htm

I see someone else has the same idea to me :so_happy:

 

[Fallen Angel]

Sorcerors are infantry unless upgraded to jump infantry. They do start on the board. The scoring unit thing is a problem I agree but I like that my sorcs can't be picked out. I think that lash DPs will tend to get a lot of hate thrown at them and die fairly fast.

Oblitorators are indeed good, almost annoyingly so. I'm running out of arguments against using them but I really don't like the models. :headbutt:

Ok, here are two against: they're slow and only T4. One squad is enough.