[forkmaster]

Horus Heresy questions/wonderings:

1) Im wondering how the Pre-Heresy Legions were built up as, like how many companies were each Legion and how many Marines where there in each Legion? We know for a fact there are at least 25 companies in the Lunas Wolves, Word Bearers got 35 I think (the part in Tales from the Heresy about the Word Bearers). Death Guard were special with only 7 great companies, Space Wolves got 13 at least.

2) According to lexicanum (I know many you dont trust that site) pre-heresy, the legion was split into Chapters of 1000 Word Bearers each, made up of 10 Companies of a hundred Word Bearers in each company. My theory is then (as there was 35 companies), that like 1-10th company summons the first Chapter, 11-20 forms the second Chapter and so on. What do you guys think about that?

3) Is the "Kor" and "Sor" in the beginning of each Word Bearer a name or a title?

4) What part did Chapters have during the pre-heresy era? There are some hints (such as Descents of Angels that there were Chapters and Chapter-Masters). Was companies devided into Chapters or the other way around?

Gaunts Ghosts questions (be ware of spoilers):

1) In the Sabbat martyr, Gaunt knows the girl who are supposed to be the Saint reborn is a fake but after a unknown girl died, she actually turns out to be the real thing. Does that mean the Saint is reborn twice in that book in 2 different girls?

2) In Traitor General they featuring a couple of Chaos Space Marines with power armor of "pearl, gold laced with filigrees of rust [Traitor General page: 173]. What kind of csm are they?

 

[Barnster]

Legions varied in thier make up and organisation. The death guard haad 7 grand companies the sons had 9, the sons of horus had at least 20, the legions each contained over 10 thousand marines. The sizes of the legions also varied, with the sons of horus and ultramaries beine the biggest emp children and sons amoungst tthe smallest.

The chapter pre heresy was simply a smaller part of the legion the size and importance of each varied between legions. As far as i know companies were divided into chapters and these were further sub divided.

And i was always under the impression that kor and sor were names not titles, maybe the upcoming 1st heretic will shed more light

 

[forkmaster]

Legions varied in thier make up and organisation. The death guard haad 7 grand companies the sons had 9, the sons of horus had at least 20, the legions each contained over 10 thousand marines. The sizes of the legions also varied, with the sons of horus and ultramaries beine the biggest emp children and sons amoungst tthe smallest.

Yeah now that you mention it, I read in the A Thousand Sons novel that they had only a 10th of the numbers had survived beofre they had been attacked by Russ. Emperors Children however I read somewhere (Index Astartes I believe) that they had around 30 companies.

The chapter pre heresy was simply a smaller part of the legion the size and importance of each varied between legions. As far as i know companies were divided into chapters and these were further sub divided.

Oh so the Chapters and Companies definition changed place after the Codex was written. First Companies was the bigger part, now chapters are. Ok then I understand. k:

And i was always under the impression that kor and sor were names not titles, maybe the upcoming 1st heretic will shed more light

Hmm hopefully, I must try and get my hands on the Word Bearers series Dark Apostle and its sequals.

 

[Barnster]

When the emperor first found fulgrim there was a great disaster that lost most of thier legion, it took fulgrim ages to recover so that they could fight as an individual legion. It stands to reason that they never reached the levels of the UMs or LWolves

 

[Baron Spikey]

Word Bearers had scores of companies- they had 40 stationed in the Sol System pretending to be loyal and that wasn't even large amount of the Legion.

Both the Death Guard and Salamanders have 7 Companies.

Chapters and Companies are interchangeable term in regards to the Legions, some like the Dark Angels use the term Chapters with Companies being a smaller component. As already stated some Legions didn't use the term Chapter at all.

In regards to the Word Bearers there's a great deal of contradiction with both the term Company and Chapter being used for similar sized forces.
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In terms of Legion size the Sons of Horus were of average size, whereas the Ultramarines and Word Bearers were the 1st and 2nd largest, respectively by a large margin (though the UM eclipsed even the WB in sheer numbers being some where between 10-20 times larger than the smallest Legions).

 

[forkmaster]

When the emperor first found fulgrim there was a great disaster that lost most of thier legion, it took fulgrim ages to recover so that they could fight as an individual legion. It stands to reason that they never reached the levels of the UMs or LWolves

Yes now youre reminding. I gotta re-read Fulgrim again. :biggrin:

Word Bearers had scores of companies- they had 40 stationed in the Sol System pretending to be loyal and that wasn't even large amount of the Legion.

Both the Death Guard and Salamanders have 7 Companies.

Chapters and Companies are interchangeable term in regards to the Legions, some like the Dark Angels use the term Chapters with Companies being a smaller component. As already stated some Legions didn't use the term Chapter at all.

In regards to the Word Bearers there's a great deal of contradiction with both the term Company and Chapter being used for similar sized forces.
---------------------------------------------------------------------

In terms of Legion size the Sons of Horus were of average size, whereas the Ultramarines and Word Bearers were the 1st and 2nd largest, respectively by a large margin (though the UM eclipsed even the WB in sheer numbers being some where between 10-20 times larger than the smallest Legions).

Oh okay, thank you for that explanation! :victory: Rep to you both!

 

[NiceGuyEddy]

Gaunts Ghosts questions (be ware of spoilers):

1) In the Sabbat martyr, Gaunt knows the girl who are supposed to be the Saint reborn is a fake but after a unknown girl died, she actually turns out to be the real thing. Does that mean the Saint is reborn twice in that book in 2 different girls?

2) In Traitor General they featuring a couple of Chaos Space Marines with power armor of "pearl, gold laced with filigrees of rust [Traitor General page: 173]. What kind of csm are they?

1) It's been awhile since I read it but my taking was that the saint was first in an unknown girl but the "prophesised" host that Gaunt was supposed to protect was always the girl from the earlier novels. Maybe the first host was more like a vessel than the actual saint reborn. But yes the saint occupies two different girls.

2) Colour scheme doesn't fit any legion so it's probably a traitor chapter.

 

[forkmaster]

1) It's been awhile since I read it but my taking was that the saint was first in an unknown girl but the "prophesised" host that Gaunt was supposed to protect was always the girl from the earlier novels. Maybe the first host was more like a vessel than the actual saint reborn. But yes the saint occupies two different girls.

2) Colour scheme doesn't fit any legion so it's probably a traitor chapter.

Yeah kinda how I understood it too. Hmm I better ask on Abnetts blogg then. Thanks for the reply. :victory:

 

[forkmaster]

Horus Heresy questions/wonderings:

1) Im wondering how the Pre-Heresy Legions were built up as, like how many companies were each Legion and how many Marines where there in each Legion? We know for a fact there are at least 25 companies in the Lunas Wolves, Word Bearers got 35 I think (the part in Tales from the Heresy about the Word Bearers). Death Guard were special with only 7 great companies, Space Wolves got 13 at least.

Okay I started re-reading Galaxy In Flames [page. 45], it says "Hundreds of Astartes had fought (...) but more than ten thousand Emperor's Children made up the Legion". This confirms what you guys said, TS and EC are amongs those with the least Astartes, both around 10-12 000 Astartes, which means there are around 300 Astartes in each Company... isch as EC had 30 companies.

 

[Lupercal's Chosen]

I think but don't quote me that it was more up to the primarch's how their legions were organized being before the heresy Gulliman had not written the codex yet so astartes were not really uniform yet. At the same time in the HH books Legions are broken down into expeditions of varying strength rather then companies i think i remember reading in Descent of Angels how a white scars force was relatively small and only suitable for pacifism duties whilst the warmaster's expedition fleet was capable of taking whole world cluster's. Bear in mind as well that not al legions had the same number of astartes again i'm sure i read that Torgaddon said that the ultramarines were even known then for having loads of warriors.

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