Warhammer 40k Forum and Wargaming Forums banner

1 - 20 of 29 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
79 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Anything solid on this?

I have recently seen some talk that the Blood Ravens are in fact "Loyalist Thousand Suns" and that there is a supposed Ultramarine successor Chapter that is actually Iron Warriors.

Are there any others that we know of in detail and is any of this confirmed anywhere (yet)?

Thanks for your time and patience.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,685 Posts
Prosporo burns has some heavy hints about the Blood ravens.
Other than that there's no real solid evidence.

However there's a theory that the marines malevolent are based off of world eater gene stock. Again nothing solid.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
12,830 Posts
There are none confirmed in fluff. The utterly ridiculous "are they, are they not" with the Blood Ravens is so overwrought and overdone that I frankly don't give a flying fuck about them. It was Goto's inane ramblings and moonstruck ravings that gave us this particular piece of horseshit, and the "UM" chapter built from Iron Warriors? Sounds like fanfic to me.

One possible one is the Minotaurs - but they are a Chapter who has what has been described as a "chimeric" geneseed, made from splicing together several, and considering their close relations with the High Lords of Terra, and an "unkillable" Chapter Master, and that their active history is blocked by the Inquisition and High Lords. My personal belief is that it's based on the Sons of Horus (there was a story about how a craft called "the minotaur" attempted a suicide attack on traitor sons of horus during Isstvaan), mixed with something, but that's simply speculation.

The Grey Knights, it's not explicitly come out and said what's happened yet.



100% free webcam site! | Awesome chicks and it is absolutely free! | Watch free live sex cam - easy as 1-2-3
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
79 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
There are none confirmed in fluff. The utterly ridiculous "are they, are they not" with the Blood Ravens is so overwrought and overdone that I frankly don't give a flying fuck about them. It was Goto's inane ramblings and moonstruck ravings that gave us this particular piece of horseshit, and the "UM" chapter built from Iron Warriors? Sounds like fanfic to me.

One possible one is the Minotaurs - but they are a Chapter who has what has been described as a "chimeric" geneseed, made from splicing together several, and considering their close relations with the High Lords of Terra, and an "unkillable" Chapter Master, and that their active history is blocked by the Inquisition and High Lords. My personal belief is that it's based on the Sons of Horus (there was a story about how a craft called "the minotaur" attempted a suicide attack on traitor sons of horus during Isstvaan), mixed with something, but that's simply speculation.

The Grey Knights, it's not explicitly come out and said what's happened yet.
I thought the Grey Knights were Confirmed as derived from the Emperor's genestock? But there was some theory about their first chapter master being Omegeron?

The Iron Warriors mascarading as UM successors is based off of the Loyalist IW contingent that shows up working with the UMs in the recent HH books, Unremembered Empire maybe?

My problem with a lot of this stuff is how tenuous it all is.

Like we have some idea that some of the cursed foundings were made with traitor geneseed, but nothing is ever confirmed.

The Marines malevolent is a new one by me though.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,332 Posts
The BR are a gimmick by BL to cash in on the interest in the 1K sons and appeasing to fanboys by making them not as reliant on sorcery as the 1K sons. So don't expect much quality or explanatory lore on them. A one trick pony is all they are.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
12,830 Posts
What do you mean by this?
Knights Errant =/= Grey Knights yet in the Horus Heresy books, although everyone believes that to be the case. If not, we've simply got an overly similar name cashing in on that fact, and effectively stealing money of customers for some elaborate joke all for a similarly named special forces squad whose only notable abilities among their peers in the legion is that they are loyalists (sans Loken).

However, there are several "traitors" in the "Grey Knights", which if their geneseed gets taken from there, then they're part "traitor" legion. In regards to the Emperor giving them some juice, it's a possibility that it blends with the traitor legion stuff, but if it was all about the Emperor emptying his ballsack to make more geneseed, there'd be no need for the traitors to be relevant (or indeed, the Emperor to create the legions either).



100% free webcam site! | Awesome chicks and it is absolutely free! | Watch free live sex cam - easy as 1-2-3
 

·
Bane of Empires
Joined
·
5,131 Posts
but if it was all about the Emperor emptying his ballsack to make more geneseed, there'd be no need for the traitors to be relevant (or indeed, the Emperor to create the legions either).
It seems to be confirmed that the Grey Knights are of the Emperor's 'stock' (to some extent at least), the 5th edition Codex: Grey Knights states: "...Where the other Space Marine Chapters were built upon existing stock, the Grey Knights were born of a new gene-seed, one without the flaws of those that had gone before, and which carried the gift of the Emperor's own flesh and soul."

I've always assumed that the Knights Errant (or at least the remnants of them after their ridiculous suicide mission) went on to be the original Grand Masters and were responsible for training and organising Chapter 666 as Titan was submerged in the warp.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
79 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
I've always assumed that the Knights Errant (or at least the remnants of them after their ridiculous suicide mission) went on to be the original Grand Masters and were responsible for training and organising Chapter 666 as Titan was submerged in the warp.
I did not know any of that. Where is that from? what leads you to believe that?

Also; apparently the Space Sharks *are not* imperial Night Lords, but they just fight like they are.
 

·
Bane of Empires
Joined
·
5,131 Posts
I did not know any of that. Where is that from? what leads you to believe that?
Codex: Grey Knights.

The bit about the Knights Errant going on to become the original Grand Masters is just conjecture on my part, though it would make sense. At least, that seems to be the direction the Heresy series is going in. The Knights Errant and the Inquisition/Grey Knights have to be related - given what we've been told in the series thus far.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
437 Posts
Also; apparently the Space Sharks *are not* imperial Night Lords, but they just fight like they are.
Based on the info in Extermination the Carcharodon Astra/Space Sharks are most likely the Raven Guard that were sent on an eternal voyage in Nomad Predation fleets by Corax when he took over. He didn't like the existing high command of the XIX legion as he felt they were too similar to the slavers he had fought on Deliverance.

I believe that one of the CA's fleet is actually listed in the heresy era Raven Guard fleet (sorry I can't remember the name offhand).

More evidence to support this is that the CA's commander displays the white skin and black eyes which are classic Raven Guard gene seed indicators.

What's interesting is that since they were "ejected" from the Raven Guard prior to the gene seed tampering, technically they would have the most pure Raven Guard gene seed in the galaxy since all the Raven Guard successors would potentially have the corrupted gene seed although why the Raptors seem to have no problems with their gene seed is open to debate.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,266 Posts
What's interesting is that since they were "ejected" from the Raven Guard prior to the gene seed tampering, technically they would have the most pure Raven Guard gene seed in the galaxy since all the Raven Guard successors would potentially have the corrupted gene seed although why the Raptors seem to have no problems with their gene seed is open to debate.
The first group of aspirants created using the gene technology Corax had acquired on his trip to Terra were called the Raptors. I think this first group numbered 500 IIRC. This is before the Alpha Legion infiltrators tampered with everything. Its safe to assume most of them survived to become the Raptors chapter during the second founding. Taking this into account would explain why the Raptors have few problems with their gene seed.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
79 Posts
Discussion Starter #13
Yeah, sorry, had a brain fart there. for some reason I was thinking that the "knights errant" were a marine chapter.

Never mind.

But does it make sense for the same group to found both organizations? I know the GK and the -I- work pretty closely obviously.
 

·
Dazed and confused.
Joined
·
8,496 Posts
But does it make sense for the same group to found both organizations? I know the GK and the -I- work pretty closely obviously.
The first inquisitors and first knights errant/GKs were all presented to the emperor by Malcador at the same time. Personally I think Garro could end up as a proto Inquisitor rather than a GK, just from looking at the role he is fulfilling at the moment.

As for the Raven Guard, it's also interesting to note that the DE have tampered with their gene seed as well as the mess caused by the AL.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
79 Posts
Discussion Starter #15
The first inquisitors and first knights errant/GKs were all presented to the emperor by Malcador at the same time. Personally I think Garro could end up as a proto Inquisitor rather than a GK, just from looking at the role he is fulfilling at the moment.

As for the Raven Guard, it's also interesting to note that the DE have tampered with their gene seed as well as the mess caused by the AL.
The Dark Eldar tampered with the Raven Guard's geneseed? And the Alpha Legion as well?
 

·
Dazed and confused.
Joined
·
8,496 Posts
The Dark Eldar tampered with the Raven Guard's geneseed?
There's mention in a White Dwarf of a heamonculus coven taking exception to the RG interfering with them on particular planet in M36, and they reeked a genetic revenge that took 101 years to manifest. No mention of how it actually manifested though.

And the Alpha Legion as well?
It's all in Deliverance Lost.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
79 Posts
Discussion Starter #17
There's mention in a White Dwarf of a heamonculus coven taking exception to the RG interfering with them on particular planet in M36, and they reeked a genetic revenge that took 101 years to manifest. No mention of how it actually manifested though.


It's all in Deliverance Lost.
Ah! have not read that one yet
 

·
Deathwing Commissar
Joined
·
1,846 Posts
I believe that one of the CA's fleet is actually listed in the heresy era Raven Guard fleet (sorry I can't remember the name offhand).
You're thinking of the Nicor, which also served as the flagship for the Carcharodons during the Badab War.
 

·
Deathwing Commissar
Joined
·
1,846 Posts
Two other things:

1. The Blood Ravens-Thousand Sons connection didn't become solid until the Horus Heresy novel A Thousand Sons. I understand Black Library has tried to distance itself from that angle since, but it was a rather blatant one.

2. And speaking of blatant angles/connections, I sincerely hope the decision is never made to disconnect the Knights Errant from the Grey Knights. I can't see how that would be accomplished without it being a contrived move, purely to throw in an unnecessary "Gotcha!" twist.
 

·
Bane of Empires
Joined
·
5,131 Posts
Two other things:1. The Blood Ravens-Thousand Sons connection didn't become solid until the Horus Heresy novel A Thousand Sons. I understand Black Library has tried to distance itself from that angle since, but it was a rather blatant one.
Really? I picked up a few hints since A Thousand Sons. Thief of Revelations (IIRC) for example.
 
1 - 20 of 29 Posts
Top