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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I've noticed in several areas (not just here) there is a general level of hate for the space marines. Is there a specific reason? Or is it because it's the first army most folks play?
 

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I don't hate, but I do dislike that over half the armies in the local (and other) tourneys happen to be the same army with different paint jobs.

I played DA, up to 8500pts, for about 1 year. During that year I lost only twice and had a huge winning streak of about 70+ games. I played the Battle Company, the Deathwing, and the Ravenwing, but found very few players who could go up against a challenging army and defeat it. Soon, everyone was shying away from not only purchasing Space Marines, but playing as/against them as well.

I started an IG army and have had much more fun playing 40K. I still don't consider Space Marines to be a challenge for me, making the games with SMs a bit boring still.

Xenos armies, and the drastic changes to the game experience offered by such varied armies, make for better games in my opinion.

Give me a Mech Tau, Mech Eldar, Godzilla/Stealer list, or huge Ork Waaaaaugh! opponent any day of the week.
 

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It is because the Space Marines are the beginners army, They need a 3+ for almost everything and are pretty strait out o fthe box easy to play, that and they do get shoved down your throat. I wish Tau would have been out when I was first starting to play, I think I would have a large Tau army riht about now.
 

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I don't hate SM. I hate Chaos.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
<snippage>
I started an IG army and have had much more fun playing 40K. I still don't consider Space Marines to be a challenge for me, making the games with SMs a bit boring still.

Xenos armies, and the drastic changes to the game experience offered by such varied armies, make for better games in my opinion.

Give me a Mech Tau, Mech Eldar, Godzilla/Stealer list, or huge Ork Waaaaaugh! opponent any day of the week.
That's kind of wierd in a way, locally we have way more chaos than anything else, xeno's and marines are usually second tier armies.

Everytime I've been down to the LFGS, most folks are ragging on the marines and either complaining they're cheesy, or they suck. Of course these are the same guys who were often fielding alpha strike chaos armies full of chosen and plasma rifles.

I can't help but find it ironic that they'd scream how cheesy the marine Assault cannons are, while they're deploying enough firepower to level out 2-3 squads in one turn with no armor saves, and their demon prince with either lash of torment, or the whole 15 attack routine.

I take it all in stride. I just keep wondering why?
 

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i really don't see space marines as being crazy good. and i dont feel like they are crammed down anyones throughts.

Ive been playing for 1.5 year, and Ive seen more stuff come out for other armies than marines. also, I am also extremely outnumbered all the time, and its quite frustrating going up against 6-7 scoring units for 3 or 4 of mine, especially when alot of those one man units can easily destroy more than half of my troop squads single handed.
 

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Chaos seems to be the easiest army to cheese out. Thoughts?
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Chaos seems to be the easiest army to cheese out. Thoughts?
I've noticed that, though I'm more concerned with Dark eldar armies. Fortunately, there are none locally. (I own the codex, but no mini's yet) I guess in a way though, the local chaos players all tend towards the same combinations and always use them. I've developed some tactics that work against it, but not always.

So far, I've seen mostly variations on the alpha strike model army, (lots of chosen with plasma rifles, deep striking terminators and terminator lords) and the slanesh whip o doom army (lash of torment, plasma cannons)
 

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Decked out daemon prince and bloodthirster model is what I've seen. Daemon prince has 2+ save, demonic flight, and 4 wounds. What's a poor Guard player to do?
 

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Hate is something i reserve for special occassions only. But in truth i think the space marines are most ired because they are everywhere. As a beginner army for most newcomers everyone and his dog has once owned or still does a space marine army. You go into GW and at least a 1/4 of the 40k area is space marines. After playing for awhile many get tired of seeing them on the battlefield, seeing them in the store, hearing about how they did something in every battle report ever written ever. They've just become common place, the norm, the basic, the vanilla.

They're the mainstream, the 40k 'golden child' if you will. I guess some people feel cheated. I mean not everyone wants to collect marines, yet they push them like its the best thing ever. What are we supposed to think? I mean while GW happily whittles away the eldar and chaos army specific rules they re-release the dark angels codex. An army specific rulebook. Sound messed up to anyone else? Its nothing personal against the greatest servants of the god emperor, really. Its just were spammed with them too much. If GW layed off the trying to shove marines into every orifice at once i'm sure support would pick up for them again.
 

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i really don't see space marines as being crazy good. and i dont feel like they are crammed down anyones throughts.

Ive been playing for 1.5 year, and Ive seen more stuff come out for other armies than marines. also, I am also extremely outnumbered all the time, and its quite frustrating going up against 6-7 scoring units for 3 or 4 of mine, especially when alot of those one man units can easily destroy more than half of my troop squads single handed.
Although I agree that Space Marines are not all that better than other armies, I definetly see how people think the Space Marines are bieng over emphasized. If you look at the Black Library Fiction almost all the novels involve Space Marines. Although the IG have series like Gaunt's Ghosts,
the Space Marines have the Space Wolves Omnibus, the Soul Drinkers Omnibus, the Ultramarines Omnibus, the Horus Heresy Series, and numerous other books. Compared to the amount of novels about other factions the number of stories about the Space Marines is ubsurd. How many books are there about Eldar?

I can also see how people might think that Space Marines are too powerfull. If someone isn't the best player, plays as an army other than SM, and gets beaten almost all the time, they will most likely get bitter. Since most of the armies out there are Marines, it is really easy to blame them for losses when the person doesn't have the tactical skill to win with a more complex army, such as Tau and Eldar. And since GW emphasizes SM so much more than other armies, it is even easier to get bitter.

I know this doesn't apply to everyone, it is just my best attempt to explain some of the hatred that flows toward the Space Marines.
 

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I'd have to agree with what many of the others said here. They're the poster boys of GW and are very popular. I think it's telliong when someone goes to a 30-person tournament and there is 1 tau player, 2 eldar, 2 tyranid, and the rest space marines. They're very tough and generally forgiving. It's also to be envious of their stat block from almost any other race's point of view (the tau equivalent of terminators only has a 3+ save). SM really don't have a weakness either. They can shoot well, they're tough with a good armor save, they can field great melee units, they can be fairly mobile, and none of their units are really poor. Who uses vespids? Rippers? (besides nidzilla who uses them to fill required FOC slots)

So, they're immensely popular and good at everything. Of course they're disliked. At first I refused to play them on principle. However, I've since had a lot of fun with weird SM lists, like the dread dreadnought army (6 dreads 3 speeders, 11 marines on foot. If you add in the 2 in each speeder, that's 17 live marines and 6 dead ones :biggrin:)

However, chaos are just as popular nowadays if not more so than loyalists, likely due to the marine counterculture. Being chaos means you can play the do-anything-and-rock-at-it models while not actually playing marines. Seems like a lot of people try to play them with loyalist strategies though, and generally don't do it as well.
 

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Unless you field two force organization charts, you can't incorporate guard into SM armies or vice versa.
 

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actually thats totally not true, you can have inquisitorial storm troopers as an ally, and if you wanna paint them up like cadian ksirkins i seriously doubt that youd have any problems at a tournament.
 

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Those are not guard. Those are storm troopers from the Inquisitor codexes. Big difference.
 

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Chaos seems to be the easiest army to cheese out. Thoughts?
I tried taking a non cheesed out chaos list to a tournament, no assault canons on the terminators, no lash of submission, no giant gobs of tzeentch foot soldiers and no obliterators...Also I brought a dred!
In short, I barely eeked out two wins out of fours games.
The dreadnaught managed to gimp at least fifty points out of my list in pure uselessness.
So yeeeah...hahahah bad choice.
 

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I don't see SM as being shoved down anyone's throats. They are essentially a starter army, and pretty much the poster child of GW, but they are miles from being overpowered (underpowered IMO) and very simple to use.
 
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