[Angel of Blood]

For a while i've wondered what the exact size of the legions were before the Heresy. Some said around 10,000, where as others have gone much higher. But none of the Heresy novels had given an exact figure. But i listened to Ravens Flight today and Corax says he came to Istvaan with 80,000 marines. Now we know he left a company back at Deliverance and then theirs the Marines who would be spread out across the galaxy on various tasks. So i imagine we can safely assume the Raven Guard numbered at around 100,000. Dont ever recall hearing that Raven Guard were a large Legion, so if we take this to be an average, whats the conservative estimate on the size of the Ultramarines, who were meant to be vastly larger than most other Legions.

 

[Khorne's Fist]

This thread discusses it in depth. Linky. There seem to be different opinions even among the HH writers. The smurfs seem to be anything from 25,000 to 250,000, with other legions varying greatly.

 

[gen.ahab]

Just a tip; use the search function before you make a thread.

 

[Baron Spikey]

Christ guys I could understand telling him to go to another thread if there was a recent one but you linked him to a thread that was over 2 and a half years old and was kind of shit.
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The First Heretic states that the Word Bearers are 100,000 strong, and they're known to be the 2nd biggest Legion so I imagine the Raven Guard weren't too much over 80,000.

The Ultramarines were almost larger than 3 other Legions put together, but on the opposite side of the scale you've got Legions like the Emperor's Children and Thousand Sons who were on the small side (12,000 for the Thousand Sons).

 

[gen.ahab]

I didn't know he linked him to a 2.5 year old thread.

 

[Angel of Blood]

Fair enough. Wonder how large the Space Wolves were. Just what were the numbers on Prospero

 

[gen.ahab]

They were fairly small. Maybe 15 thousand.

 

[forkmaster]

Christ guys I could understand telling him to go to another thread if there was a recent one but you linked him to a thread that was over 2 and a half years old and was kind of shit.
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The First Heretic states that the Word Bearers are 100,000 strong, and they're known to be the 2nd biggest Legion so I imagine the Raven Guard weren't too much over 80,000.

The Ultramarines were almost larger than 3 other Legions put together, but on the opposite side of the scale you've got Legions like the Emperor's Children and Thousand Sons who were on the small side (12,000 for the Thousand Sons).

I think when Corax refers to the 80,000 Astartes, he meant from all 3 Legions, splitting them into around somewhere in between 25,000 each (then one legion could be bigger than the other). Ive re-read the first HH-novels and its confirmed (I dont got a page but I dod remember). EC have roughly almost the same number as TS and its stated they had 30 companies, kinda around 300 Astartes in each (but my math sucks so).

And I wouldnt be surprised if there was that many WB. In Tales of the heresy its stated they had at least 34 companies, and they were didived into Chapters with at least 1000 in each.

Also just to point it out. I had a thread about companies and Chapters during the HH-era. Apprently EC had Chapters and chapter-Masters as well as DA as its mentioned at least twice in Galaxy In Flames.

 

[Baron Spikey]

The Word Bearers had a lot more than 34 companies- they left 40 in the Sol System alone whilst the majority of the Legion attacked the Ultramarines.

 

[Azkaellon]

If i remember right the Blood Angels had 10 Company's....of 1000 each so 10,000 Marines. Then again i think it depends on the chapter.......

 

[Baron Spikey]

And it also depends on the author- if we were to ignore the authors would you seriously argue the Blood Angels as being the smallest Legion at 10,000?

 

[Angel of Blood]

I dont know. The audiobooks not very clear. I took it as the 80,000 being the strength of the legion. Although one of the Raven Guard marines mentions that probably 90% of the legion are dead and their are 4000 of them at this point, which would suggest theu number at 40,000.

Looking at it this could make sense, as didn't the Iron Hands only fight with their first company and some other elements? which would only be say over a few thousand? 40,000 Raven Guard, 35,000 or so Salamanders, and the rest made up of Iron Hands. Making the 80,000 up

 

[ckcrawford]

I remember being a thread on this before. I think It was ADB that mentioned that the earlier versions of the Warhammer 40k legions were around the 100,000 mark which is basically what was used in Raven's Flight. But most of the earlier writers are making the legions in more of the Ten Thousands which seems like probably be used during the long term since most of the heresy novels would agree with this number.

In my opinion I prefer the idea of the legions being in a hundred thousands. It just seems more realistic and demonstrates might. 1 astartes alone is pretty tough, but compared to all the alien technologies out their, especially during the Great Crusade, and the great hordes of the ork a couple thousand marines here and there can only do so much. A boltgun can only take down so many orks. 1 to 1 an ork and a space marine in close quarters is to close a battle. Eldar technology can make space marine armour look like wood. And to me, comparing a space marine and a normal imperial guard can also mean so much.

 

[gen.ahab]

In fluff, marines outstrip orks in every sense. In cc orks are no match.

 

[Tzeen Qhayshek]

I always imagined the Legions to have a preset number of Marines per each legion. Though it looks that they could be as big, or as small, as you wanted. Interesting, but strange.

 

[Abbott]

They were all originally 10,000 at the beginning of the Great Crusade :victory:

I read somewhere that the Ultramarines had 250,000 just before the Horus Heresy. That was the largest legion due to their success on the eastern fringe.
While one of the legions, can't remember which was at one point only 200 marines due to an accident/ massive tactical error? :headbutt:

 

[Child-of-the-Emperor]

They were all originally 10,000 at the beginning of the Great Crusade :victory:

Its been said before, but i'll say it again - there are no definitive Legion sizes because different authors and different fans take differing stances.

I read somewhere that the Ultramarines had 250,000 just before the Horus Heresy. That was the largest legion due to their success on the eastern fringe.

The Collected Visions claims that the Ultramarines maintained a Legion size of 250,000. But it also claims that the average Legion size was ~100,000. Most of the Heresy series seems to think differently. As I said though, the Legion sizes depend on the author.

While one of the legions, can't remember which was at one point only 200 marines due to an accident/ massive tactical error? :headbutt:

That would be the Emperor's Children.

 

[Warlock in Training]

Legion size is the biggest incosistency in 40K.