Warhammer 40k Forum and Wargaming Forums banner

1 - 20 of 53 Posts

·
Grr! That is all.
Joined
·
595 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,232 Posts
Its what I've said all along about 'Obamacare'. Pretty much its giving you guys an NHS for far less then your health insurance would cost, but with the same, and for many people, a massively improved rate of care.

The idiots opposing this are the corporate asses who run the insurance companies, and who fund the Republicans... Really, enough said there.
 

·
Grr! That is all.
Joined
·
595 Posts
Its what I've said all along about 'Obamacare'. Pretty much its giving you guys an NHS for far less then your health insurance would cost, but with the same, and for many people, a massively improved rate of care.

The idiots opposing this are the corporate asses who run the insurance companies, and who fund the Republicans... Really, enough said there.
Not everyone who opposes it is an idiot. And if I were to take the route you just did while I am not going call you and others idiots because trying to incite/troll/insult someone is not my thing, I will say that I have suspicions that those who are for it really do not either understand it and have not read it or are already on government assistance.

And by read it I mean understand it by tracing all of the implications the bills have.

The easiest way to get people to believe in what you are saying or to believe in your ideals is to take what you believe to be true and investigate it with the intent of proving it wrong. That way you use fact, logic and reason to prove you are right instead of hearsay, conjecture and bullsh*t to feed false propaganda.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
6,195 Posts
Just out of curiosity what made you use Rape as your descriptive word?

I mean what was the deciding factor or how did you arrive at using that word?

Do you think that because we live in a rape culture that societies down play of not only the word to something trivial in meaning but also the act itself had any effect on your decision?

Was it just an offhand comment/word/first one that popped into your head type of thing?
Off topic take it to another thread.

Not everyone who opposes it is an idiot. And if I were to take the route you just did while I am not going call you and others idiots because trying to incite/troll/insult someone is not my thing, I will say that I have suspicions that those who are for it really do not either understand it and have not read it or are already on government assistance.

And by read it I mean understand it by tracing all of the implications the bills have.

The easiest way to get people to believe in what you are saying or to believe in your ideals is to take what you believe to be true and investigate it with the intent of proving it wrong. That way you use fact, logic and reason to prove you are right instead of hearsay, conjecture and bullsh*t to feed false propaganda.
So why do you oppose it.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
6,385 Posts
I disagree with Obamacare because I already have government healthcare (for a while longer at least), and I know how BAD a system like that can be.

I used to have a friend who worked the ER in Cananda, where even the slightest sniffle will send people running there just because "it's free". This means the ER is always overcrowded and the wait times are horrible.

Basically I don't want the government taking on another system when they can't even use the ones we have correctly (hello IRS!).
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
6,195 Posts
Discussion Starter #8
It is not set up to be military style healthcare. Healthcare in Canada is not like that.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
6,385 Posts
It is not set up to be military style healthcare. Healthcare in Canada is not like that.
"Miltary style healthcare" is a government run healthcare system. It sucks.

And yes, people abusing the ER in Canada -is- something that happens because they don't pay for the visit, and they feel that since they're paying taxes for the healthcare they might as well use it constantly.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
7,889 Posts
"Miltary style healthcare" is a government run healthcare system. It sucks.
I can assure you that Medicare in Australia and the Medical system of the Oz Army bear no similarities what so ever.

There is an ongoing issue with the "abuse" of the ER however in an Oz hospital patients are dealt with via a triage system. If you're in ER for a sniffle then you are going to be spending a lot of time waiting to be seen.

We also have a system where by you can go and see a GP not in the hospital and have the Medicare system pay for the consult. There are large numbers of clinics that operate under this model. The bulk of the ER sniffles go there.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,232 Posts
The point is though in Canada they go because it is free... where-as in America, people don't go in with a sniffle, which turns out to be flu... or MRSA, or some other superbug which ends up killing them as they can't afford it or their insurance won't cover it....

And its a hell of a better system then 'We know whats wrong with you, so we're gonna milk your insurance for all the money we can by running a million pointless tests just to make sure' as the US system currently is.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
7,889 Posts
:goodpost: this
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
6,385 Posts
The point is though in Canada they go because it is free... where-as in America, people don't go in with a sniffle, which turns out to be flu... or MRSA, or some other superbug which ends up killing them as they can't afford it or their insurance won't cover it....

And its a hell of a better system then 'We know whats wrong with you, so we're gonna milk your insurance for all the money we can by running a million pointless tests just to make sure' as the US system currently is.
I'm not saying the American system is good as it is now, but considering the mess the American Government makes out of everything I don't know if they can really be trusted to handle yet another system when they can't even manage what they already have on their plate.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,003 Posts
The american government spends more money on healthcare per person than the NHS in the UK does.

That simple fact screams anything to improve the american healthcare system is worth trying.
 

·
Bane of Empires
Joined
·
5,131 Posts
I disagree with Obamacare because I already have government healthcare (for a while longer at least), and I know how BAD a system like that can be.

I used to have a friend who worked the ER in Cananda, where even the slightest sniffle will send people running there just because "it's free". This means the ER is always overcrowded and the wait times are horrible.

Basically I don't want the government taking on another system when they can't even use the ones we have correctly (hello IRS!).
I'm not aware of the intricacies of Obamacare, but I can't see how that is a truly legitimate argument against free healthcare in general. I'm from England so I've only ever lived in a country with free healthcare. But it certainly doesn't result in vast quantities of people swarming A&E and hospital whenever they have a sniffle. If anything, people would go to their local GPs with minor issues rather than their local hospital. And whilst seeing your GP isn't always that easy or highly convenient, I have never had any serious issues when I've wanted/needed to see my GP on short notice. Just because healthcare is free doesn't mean people utilise it pointlessly and needlessly. Not sure about you, but if I have a choice I'd rather not be in a hospital.

Wait times can be an issue at hospitals sometimes, but we still have the option of private healthcare to circumvent that. Plus I sleep sounder at night knowing every single man, women, and child in my country has access to free healthcare regardless of their circumstances. For myself and the vast majority of British people the NHS is one of the great things about our country. And for us it's hard to understand the reasoning behind not having free healthcare - such as in the US.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
6,385 Posts
I'm not aware of the intricacies of Obamacare, but I can't see how that is a truly legitimate argument against free healthcare in general. I'm from England so I've only ever lived in a country with free healthcare. But it certainly doesn't result in vast quantities of people swarming A&E and hospital whenever they have a sniffle. If anything, people would go to their local GPs with minor issues rather than their local hospital. And whilst seeing your GP isn't always that easy or highly convenient, I have never had any serious issues when I've wanted/needed to see my GP on short notice. Just because healthcare is free doesn't mean people utilise it pointlessly and needlessly. Not sure about you, but if I have a choice I'd rather not be in a hospital.

Wait times can be an issue at hospitals sometimes, but we still have the option of private healthcare to circumvent that. Plus I sleep sounder at night knowing every single man, women, and child in my country has access to free healthcare regardless of their circumstances. For myself and the vast majority of British people the NHS is one of the great things about our country. And for us it's hard to understand the reasoning behind not having free healthcare - such as in the US.
You must be very empathetic for that free healthcare to affect your sleep like that.

Let me put it simply because my point is being lost somewhere: I don't trust the government not to fuck this up. They fuck everything else up they touch and I don't trust them with this.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,232 Posts
The american government spends more money on healthcare per person than the NHS in the UK does.

That simple fact screams anything to improve the american healthcare system is worth trying.
This. The problem with the US system is the insurance companies and the cost of having to deal with them and the hospitals having to have lawyers to deal with them and wasting time wrangling with them while trying to get them to pay for patients care etc.

Get rid of the insurance and just say that everyone is covered for anything like the NHS (Except the obvious stuff like cosmetic surgery etc and other unneeded care and surgery) and costs would tumble overnight meaning theres far more money to pay for more doctors and better treatments.

I worked out once that for about $250 a head, per YEAR. The USA could have an NHS system with more then double the funding per head of the UK NHS... The US government already spends this... but as said, its assing about with all the insurance companies that screws it all up.

You must be very empathetic for that free healthcare to affect your sleep like that.
You have Cancer.. or liver failure, or some other life threatening disease.... You Insurance won't cover it.

You'd soon be loosing sleep.

Here... in the UK, we just walk into a hospital and don't have to worry.

Your female.. your pregnant... Can you afford the hospital costs? Are you gonna have to get an abortion as the cost of giving birth will ruin you?

You'd be loosing sleep.

Here in the UK you just walk into a hospital and you have your midwife and everything else covered.

So yes... You do sleep sounder not having to worry about your healthcare.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
6,385 Posts
You have Cancer.. or liver failure, or some other life threatening disease.... You Insurance won't cover it.

You'd soon be loosing sleep.
That wasn't the claim though. The claim was the knowledge that EVERY SINGLE PERSON HAS HEALTHCARE makes them sleep better at night. Don't twist it into something it's not to champion your arguement. It was badly said and was a bad case of hyperbole. Very few, if any, people are that empathetic that they're worried about someone on the other end of their country having cancer that only the knowledge that the government's magical healthcare system can help them will allow them to sleep at night.

Here... in the UK, we just walk into a hospital and don't have to worry.
Congrats. You're ignoring my point about the US government being a bunch of incompetent cocks who can't manage their own pants much less the actual country being put in charge of this thing. Social Security, the government's 401k plan? Tapped for regular spending despite not being designed to be the government's piggy bank. It's not even called a "tax" anymore but everyone has to pay into it.

Your female.. your pregnant... Can you afford the hospital costs? Are you gonna have to get an abortion as the cost of giving birth will ruin you?

You'd be loosing sleep.

Here in the UK you just walk into a hospital and you have your midwife and everything else covered.

So yes... You do sleep sounder not having to worry about your healthcare.
My -own- healthcare, sure. Everyone else's? Not a fucking chance. Don't lie to me and claim you care about some child you've never heard of needing a new artificial leg every couple of years because he played in traffic and the very thought of which would somehow keep you up at night if it wasn't for the healthcare system.

I'm not saying a universal healthcare system is bad. I just don't trust it to be run competently by the US Government. They are two separate arguments and you need to stop ignoring the fact that I'm saying I don't trust those fucks to do their job properly instead of claiming that I hate the idea of a better healthcare system.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,232 Posts
So.. basically your saying that because you don't believe they'll be able to pull it off, you don't even want them to try?

That's pretty much the equivalent of saying you don't want a better healthcare system.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
7,889 Posts
I remember 30 odd years ago when the thing to do was whine about how bad the govt had stuffed up the UK NHS / Aus Medicare setup's.

Different story now.
 
1 - 20 of 53 Posts
Top