[Cadian81st]

Would a SM being targeted by an eldar mind war attack be able to use the bonus leadership given by his commander (all SM commanders give Ld 10) when rolling against mind war? Or, since the SM commander entry says the leadership bonus is for leadership, pinning and morale but not psychic, would he use his base?

 

[The Son of Horus]

I think he'd use his base. It's that specific model's leadership that you're testing against, not the Commander's orders that are keeping him in place, which is what that special rule really represents.

And not all Commanders give Ld10-- Captains are Ld9, Masters are Ld10.

 

[Elchimpster]

Meh, have your Librarian nullify it with his Psychic Hood.


Sorry man, been running the Libby-heavy Blood Ravens for too long.

 

[Galahad]

Generally things like a veteran sarge in a squad, or a commander with rites of battle is for *unit* LD checks. When something says that a specific model has to make a LD check, it;s meant to be his own leadership score.

 

[anathema]

I'm pretty sure its models base leadership.

 

[Cadian81st]

all right, thanks guys.

Meh, have your Librarian nullify it with his Psychic Hood.

Don't even get me started on that. I've tried that, and it produces quite amusing results. Inquisitor lord with psychic hood and unguents of warding vs. eldrad ulthran and two farseers with mind war, and something that can nullify my attempts to nullify a psychic power. (?!?!) Only 1 mindwar even got through the psychic hood, and that was nullified by the unguents. lols, the look on his face was priceless.

 

[nightmarine]

i think u can use the ld of your commander since it doesnt say they are taking a psychic test. (unless i have sadly forgoten the fine wording of codex 'nid.) Dont forget, its not like he is sitting there commanding them with a cell phone...his mere preasence on the battlefield is what gives them the higher leadership.

 

[Severian]

i think u can use the ld of your commander since it doesnt say they are taking a psychic test. (unless i have sadly forgoten the fine wording of codex 'nid.) Dont forget, its not like he is sitting there commanding them with a cell phone...his mere preasence on the battlefield is what gives them the higher leadership.

Have to agree with this. A leadership test is forced (by a psychic power) and the spesial rule states that all spacemarines may use his leadership as long as he is on the table for such tests. Thus the ability is conferred to every one, whether you want one model to test or a unit.

Ok that's my 2 cents worth. :victory:

 

[Skr121]

No in the codex it says the commander can direct with but a word, its not just his mere presence.

In fact, I think its really all the extra men the commander brings with him when he's using his verizon comm link that boosts the leadership. (I really hope they have those commercials across the pond)

 

[O'sharan]

Basic Ld i'm pretty sure!

 

[Severian]

No in the codex it says the commander can direct with but a word, its not just his mere presence.

In fact, I think its really all the extra men the commander brings with him when he's using his verizon comm link that boosts the leadership. (I really hope they have those commercials across the pond)

It is not about the fluff behind the whole thing but the actual rule and how it functions in the game mechanic. Com links, spoken command etc. is irrelevant. The rule states that as long as he (the commander) is on the table the any marine may use his leadership for any of the tests as already mentioned.

Forget the fluff etc. this is a rules question straight and simple.

 

[Bishop120]

Yep I aggree.. Use the Commanders LD (if available or higher) for anything other than Librarians using their own Psychic powers.

 

[Galahad]

Ok, here's the RAW breakdown...

If a Space Marine Commander is on the table then all other Space Marine squads may use his Leadership for Morale, Pinning or Leadership tests, but not Psychic tests.

And from the more recent Codex: Blood Angels

Rites of Battle: All other Blood Angel models in the same army may use this model's Leadership for Morale, Pinning and Leadership tests but not Psychic tests.

Emphasis mine in both cases.
There's some subtle things to note.

Codex: SM Rites of Battle affect *only* SQUADS
So individual models singled out to make Morale, Pinning or Leadership tests do not benefit. Period. (It says squads, not Units, not Models) This is same situation as having a Vet or IC attached to the squad with a higher LD score. The score is used for tests the Squad makes, but not for individual models.

However, the new DA/BA version does say Models, so you can be singled out and still use your commander's LD score. So let's continue the discussion under the assumption that we're playing with one of the New SM Codices.

But note that I highlighted 'Leadership tests'.

Leadership Tests are defined on p12 of the BBB as being 2d6 addeed together and compared to the model's Leadership score. A Leadership test is a very specific rule, and RoB very specifically benefits *only* Pinning, Morale and Leadership tests.

Now, for Mind War...

The Eldar player may choose any unengaged model within 18" of the Farseer and within his line of sight (models in vehicles cannot be targeted). Both players doll a d6 and add the Leadership of their respective models. For each point the Farseer wins by, the target loses a wound, with no armour save allowed.

That is NOT a Leadership test. That is an opposed d6+Ld roll. It is never called a Leadership test, it does not use the mechanics of a Leadership test. Nor does it use the rules for Morale or Pinning.

So, even if you're playing a New SM army (as we've already established old Codex SM armies cannot use RoB on individual models), it still makes no difference, as RoB very specifically only benefits Pinning, Morale and Leadership tests, and Mind War does not invoke any such test.

So you're pretty much SoL if the Eldar player wants to melt the brain of your guy with the Lascannon

 

[Bishop120]

(Previous post deleted)
Per the SM FAQ posted at GW the RoB apply to every SM model on the board and not just to units. Basically the way I interpret it is ever Marine has his leadership stat replaced by the Commanders via Rights Of Battle. Please see the FAQ to see if this interpretation sounds correct.

 

[Galahad]

While you are correct that according to the FAQ, Rites of Battle affects all models, not just squads, it *still* only applies to Morale, Pinning and Leaership tests. (This is the same as the Dark/Blood Angel version)

It does *not* replace the model's Ld score for any other situation. Only for three very specific tests. If an ability calls for a d6 roll to be added to the model's leadership to determine the effect then it must be applied to the specific model's base leadership characteristic (plus any applicable leadership bonuses).

You would still NOT use rites of Battle because Mind War does not call for Morale, Pinning or Leadership tests.