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Can a SM libby use "the Gate of Infinity" to get out of close combat? and take his unit with him?
 

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Can a SM libby use "the Gate of Infinity" to get out of close combat? and take his unit with him?
I don't think there was ever a definitive answer to this, but the general consensus is that yes, you can still use GoI even if locked in combat at the beginning of your movement phase. It is still a debateable point, however, and both sides have a good argument for their point of view.

Generally, I agree with the yes, you can gate out of combat camp - nothing stops you from using the power while locked in combat, and being removed from the table by a power isn't the same as "moving out of combat", so it isn't disallowed. Otherwise, you'd have a problem with all those offensive "removed from play" powers out there, being unable to affect people in combat. If it becomes a problem, just remind opponents of it before the game begins, and you'll have no problems in the game itself - having a list of all the possible rules holes that could come up in your army, and going over them with your opponent quickly before a game can really save on the arguments later on.

Hope that helps altogether :)
 

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I'll be the voice of disagreement and say no. Nothing permits you to use it while in close cmbat, unlike the Necron Veil or Monolith, which have specific statements that it can be used wile locked in close combat. Without that specific statement, the only way to leave a close combat is for one side to be destroyed or run away.

Basically, if you want to do something that is outside the norm, ie leave combat, it falls upon you to prove conclusively that you are allowed to do it. Nothing in the Gate rules proves this, so you cannot. Not having a statement saying you cannot use it isn't good enough, you need a statement saying you can use it.
 

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I still don't think you do to be honest. It says in the rules 'is used at beginning of movement phase'...If your locked in close combat you don't have a movement phase, so you can't use the power.
 

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I think I hafta side with Don. 40k uses a prescriptive rules model - which is to say you can't do anything unless there's a rule saying you can. (The alternative, a restrictive model says you can do anything unless there's a rule saying you can't).

As Don points out - if something can be used while locked in CC, it will generally say as much.
 

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I still don't think you do to be honest. It says in the rules 'is used at beginning of movement phase'...If your locked in close combat you don't have a movement phase, so you can't use the power.
You still most definitely have a phase, you just can't actually "move" in it. Otherwise, you wouldn't be able to use any "beginning of movement phase" powers when in combat, when you obviously can.

As for the movement out of combat thing, as I said earlier, it's a debatable point whether it counts as moving out of combat, but I'm off to sleep now, so I won't be the one debating it :)
 

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I would say yes, done it a Throne of Skulls tournament and the ref sided with me when called over.
 

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Simple answer - Needs an FAQ
However since that isn't helpful i would say no but make sur eyou agree with your oppoent or ref BEFORE the game. Personly i would say no as it doesn't say you can but the othe rsimular codexs with this sort of power are Necrons....which is the only 3rd Gen codex left there rules may change and it would have been fine back then. So i would say no....unless you and your oppoent/ref agree.
 

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I would say yes, done it a Throne of Skulls tournament and the ref sided with me when called over.
And a US GW GT/Games Day tourney Rules Judge (me) disagrees with you. Point being, judges at any given tourney may or may not be correct. Even I have made mistakes over the years. So saying that a judge called it a particular way in any given tourney means diddly-squat when it comes to what the rules actually say.

@jaws. Required an FAQ back then (3rd ed) as well, as you have never been able to leave combat without a special rule saying you can.
 

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And a US GW GT/Games Day tourney Rules Judge (me) disagrees with you. Point being, judges at any given tourney may or may not be correct. Even I have made mistakes over the years. So saying that a judge called it a particular way in any given tourney means diddly-squat when it comes to what the rules actually say.

@jaws. Required an FAQ back then (3rd ed) as well, as you have never been able to leave combat without a special rule saying you can.
I actually can't find the rules that says you can't leave combat.
All I've found is one saying you can't move or shoot while in combat, and that's not relevant at all.
Does this rule exist? If so, could someone find the page reference please?

If not, there's still nothing restricting you from using it while in combat.
A permissive ruleset it may be, but you still can do it.
It says you may use the power, and doesn't give a specific restriction, since there is no restriction applied by the BRB, your use of the power is unrestricted by being locked in combat.

It's one of those things I wouldn't mind playing differently, but that's my stance on the matter.
If you can find a passage that states you cannot leave combat without a specific exception, then I very well may be wrong.
 

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Any other power that allows it explicitly states that you may do so. GoI does not.
True, but then some deepstriking vehicles state you can't assault after deepstriking in them, while others do not (even when they have open topped/assault vehicle rules), though we do not take this to mean that the latter are allowed to assault out of the vehicle, simply because the former was specifically banned. The way things work might change over time, and both the counter examples were written in previous editions anyway :p

The truth is, this won't be solved with a debate, it needs to be FAQ'd. However, GW doesn't believe in updating FAQs, except on rare occasions for orks, so we might sore out of luck on that matter. Decide it before a game, roll a 4+ if it is contentious, ask a TO to rule on it before a tourney.


/Oh, and welcome back :drinks:
 

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True, but then some deepstriking vehicles state you can't assault after deepstriking in them, while others do not (even when they have open topped/assault vehicle rules), though we do not take this to mean that the latter are allowed to assault out of the vehicle, simply because the former was specifically banned. The way things work might change over time, and both the counter examples were written in previous editions anyway :p

The truth is, this won't be solved with a debate, it needs to be FAQ'd. However, GW doesn't believe in updating FAQs, except on rare occasions for orks, so we might sore out of luck on that matter. Decide it before a game, roll a 4+ if it is contentious, ask a TO to rule on it before a tourney.


/Oh, and welcome back :drinks:
This, the fact that other such powers specifically permit it means nothing (especially when that other such power is from a 3rd ed codex), the fact remains that nothing is restricting you from using it, and so you can use it.
It's one of those things that doesn't really help much though, you'd be mad to build an army around it, so just decide with your opponent before the game, but assume you can't when making your army.
 

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True, but then some deepstriking vehicles state you can't assault after deepstriking in them, while others do not

The truth is, this won't be solved with a debate, it needs to be FAQ'd. However, GW doesn't believe in updating FAQs, except on rare occasions for orks, so we might sore out of luck on that matter. Decide it before a game, roll a 4+ if it is contentious, ask a TO to rule on it before a tourney.


/Oh, and welcome back :drinks:
1. Deep striking vehicles and not assaulting after disembarking, it's now in the main rules. Page 95. "however, these unit's may not launch an assault".

2. Yes, it should be FAQed, but until it is, it's the person wanting to move out of combat that has to prove they can, not our problem to prove they cannot.

Same thing for even having to prove that you can move out of combat. Don't need to, as the individual wanting to leave needs to show that they can dos so without a special rule such as Hit and Run, etc. A unit locked in combat has certain options available to it at each step in the turn. Leaving combat without a special rule is nowhere listed as a possibility, other than running away.

And oh yeah, page 40, "While a unit is locked in combat it may only make pile-in moves and may not otherwise move or shoot."
 

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And oh yeah, page 40, "While a unit is locked in combat it may only make pile-in moves and may not otherwise move or shoot."
Tyranid FAQ ruling on Mycetic spores: A model that may not move can still be moved by another model or effect.

I would say this could apply.

Plus,

Jaws of the World wolf: Removed from Play
Various other powers: Removed as a casualty.
Gate of Infinity: Removed from the table.

Things can be removed from combat by other means, why not this one?

Like I said, it's definitely not cut and dried, but Ask Opponent, 4+ and getting the TO to rule before a tournament are the only ways to handle it.
 

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Sweet, they aren't moving or shooting until after they're disengaged, so that doesn't serve as a restriction at all.
Well, if you want to say that picking up the model and placing it somewhere else isn't moving it, that's your prerogative. I disagree, movement is movement, unless the game mechanic involved specifically states that it isn't.

Regardless, you still haven't shown anything saying he CAN do it (ie use it to leave combat), which is (as I've already pointed out) necessary. Without that specific statement, something similar to the one put out for Veil of Darkness, I still say no. And that's the only thing that will change my mind.
 

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I think it comes down to how strict your opponent is, as a chaos and ork player i don't have access to the power in question but i would allow it to be used to disengage from combat. It just keeps me on my toes, i might fall for it once but the next game i'd make damned sure i shot the Libby and his pals to death instead of getting up close.
 
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