Warhammer 40k Forum and Wargaming Forums banner
1 - 5 of 5 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,848 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Round 1... fight!


No, seriously, I'd like some opinions. But, let's add some context.

1. Assume an even amount of points, within a few. So if you spend 250 on Skyweavers (just to make up numbers), you spend that much on Shining Spears.

2. Skyweavers will have Zephyrglaives, in an attempt to make them more CC based.

3. Skyweavers will also come with at least one Voidweaver, since to use them in an Eldar list (and make this comparison valid), I have to use Faolchu's Blade formation. Eldar/Shining Spears will spend those points on one or more Hornets. Because some people will make the deciding factor the 'Voidweaver tax'.

4. An Autarch on a Jetbike may or may not be attached. It negates the Mirage Launchers, but feels like a good fit.


With all that said, I'd love some thoughts. Skyweavers offer a lot of attacks and are multi-wound, and with access to glaives, they have some staying power if the first round of combat fails. Spears have more models, so more HoW attacks, but they'll lose to attrition faster.

Any other thoughts? Opinions? Suggestions?
 

·
Rattlehead
Joined
·
6,741 Posts
If you're not winning in the first round of combat you've fucked up anyway, and Hit and Run is trivially easy to get on Shining Spears.

I'd go with Spears every time, if I ran either of them.

3. Voidweaver tax is a bastard in the Eldar army which is full of units you'd actually want to bring, which is a big point against it.

4. Why attach an Autarch? Mantle of the Laughing God seems the far superior choice.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,848 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
If you're not winning in the first round of combat you've fucked up anyway, and Hit and Run is trivially easy to get on Shining Spears.

I'd go with Spears every time, if I ran either of them.

3. Voidweaver tax is a bastard in the Eldar army which is full of units you'd actually want to bring, which is a big point against it.

4. Why attach an Autarch? Mantle of the Laughing God seems the far superior choice.
The only problem I see with H&R is the fact that they technically need to last through the return round. Assuming they don't win on the first turn, keeping them stuck in means they won't get shot to pieces on the spot.. THEN hit and run back out. The Exarch offers it. the Skyweavers get it automatically.

I posted an army (repeatedly) in the Eldar lists... I was already using the Mantle for a Farseer, so I didn't have any for Autarchs to use.
 

·
Rattlehead
Joined
·
6,741 Posts
I think an Autarch is a far better use of the Mantle, since he's far more of a solo operative than the Farseer who might as well just stick with a unit, but that's just me.

I'd forgotten that Skyweavers were only 4+ armour; that's kind of immensely shitty, especially if your meta has AP4 Ignores Cover.

Zephyrglaives with 3 attacks base and Furious Charge means you're pretty horrifying on the charge though; 4 WS5 Str5 AP2 attacks per jetbike is nothing to be sniffed at.

Forgot that Skyweavers get Shuriken Cannons. That's a nice touch.

On second reflection? Skyweavers seem the better choice: AP2 gives you a lot more threat, and they end up with more wounds for the price. Less resilient, particularly to Ignores Cover AP4 or Str8 weapons (compared to Spears 3+ armour/3+ Jink); they also have better shooting, far and away, which is a big plus; not as good for the points as something dedicated to shooting, but nice to have.

I still wouldn't run either, being fairly fragile melee units that only work on the turn they charge with no grenades, and being in inevitable competition with the other really good things Eldar can bring, but Skyweavers could have legs if you can keep them alive (with Phantasmancy, I would guess, giving them 2+ in any kind of cover or Jinking).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,848 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I think an Autarch is a far better use of the Mantle, since he's far more of a solo operative than the Farseer who might as well just stick with a unit, but that's just me.
I was planning to run the Autarchs as a IC in the skyweaver squads, for 2 reasons: one, they give that buff to get my Crimson Hunters in, and two, an extra beatstick in a squad of beatsticks. But I didn't mention the CHs, so I won't put that as part of our comparison.

I'd forgotten that Skyweavers were only 4+ armour; that's kind of immensely shitty, especially if your meta has AP4 Ignores Cover.
True. Space clowns hate armor for some reason. the formation benefit is a reroll on jink saves, so that's something. he'd be 4+/4++. Kinda like a Farseer.

Zephyrglaives with 3 attacks base and Furious Charge means you're pretty horrifying on the charge though; 4 WS5 Str5 AP2 attacks per jetbike is nothing to be sniffed at.

Forgot that Skyweavers get Shuriken Cannons. That's a nice touch.
Yeah, both of these are what makes me consider running them. Great firepower, and more attacks than the pistol-less Spears. And since the glaives are fancy Power Lances, at least they have SOMETHING after that first turn, while Spears are just spitting at whatever's left. Not that I want to be in combat past the charge... Spears will get more HoW attacks, while the Weavers won't fear attrition as much with multiple wounds.

On second reflection? Skyweavers seem the better choice: AP2 gives you a lot more threat, and they end up with more wounds for the price. Less resilient, particularly to Ignores Cover AP4 or Str8 weapons (compared to Spears 3+ armour/3+ Jink); they also have better shooting, far and away, which is a big plus; not as good for the points as something dedicated to shooting, but nice to have.

I still wouldn't run either, being fairly fragile melee units that only work on the turn they charge with no grenades, and being in inevitable competition with the other really good things Eldar can bring, but Skyweavers could have legs if you can keep them alive (with Phantasmancy, I would guess, giving them 2+ in any kind of cover or Jinking).
I won't have any Phatasmancy, because of the formation and not being able to use Shadowseers on bikes. It would be either Autarchs for an extra punch, or maybe farseers for divination or telepathy. With the current list idea I was going for (dual CAD), I'm looking at at least 2 HQs. I could trim that down if I gave up on having 2 CH Exarchs (just for a bit more accuracy), but again, 2 autarchs guaranteed they came in reliably.
 
1 - 5 of 5 Posts
Top