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How... weird, you usually only get boo-boos like that in FW books.
It's not a complete boo-boo as a Dominion squad could be armed with Storm Bolters or Meltaguns as well (or just their normal Bolters). Of course, nobody used Storm Bolters before and the cost was INcreased. Meltaguns are fair though you normally want to shoot those Meltaguns at vehicles - which are rarely in cover when you're hunting them with Dominions.

So the use of the Dominion Act of Faith is pretty much limited to edge cases like using Meltaguns on Eldar vehicles with holofields or turning them on infantry as the target you WANTED to use them on just accidentally exploded.
 

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Immolator kits sold regardless because they're also really nice Rhino kits. And Priests have been a mainstay of the codex since 2nd, they're just good again finally.
Yes, like how St. Celestine was always there except she suddenly dropped to half price with the WDdex and got boosted on top of that.

Like I said, sudden boosts and point cost drops to push models that no one used before, because the old priests were actively harmful to your own army. We've seen this already in pretty much every codex ever released, let's not pretend they're not doing it.

And the Condemer Boltgun has always been a combi-weapon. I don't know where this idea of it not being on comes from.
Oh wow I always missed that part. Not that I ever took one.

Wow. Just wow. And it costed 15 points before? WOW.

Honestly I don't see executive meddling to kill the army here, and I think that's ascribing maliciousness where there is none, but that's just me.
Yes, it's most likely maliciousness, but damn this codex really disappointed me. I wasn't expecting much to begin with because, again, it was going to miss what it needed most direly: new models and a revamp of the old model line.

But still, it shows that they have absolutely no idea what to do with the army, there is no internal consistency whatsoever, and that they're playing an entirely different game than the current edition of 40K. I remain that they're so deep in Fantasy 9th that they forgot how 40K works.
 

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Ignores Cover Meltaguns are bad now?
"Ignores cover once per game assuming you don't fail a LD 8 test or maybe 9 if you spent 10 extra points" with all the weapons your 5-10 unit is equipping. And your options are bolters, storm bolters, flamers and meltaguns.

Considering their previous power was "Reroll to-hit, not just once per game although with about 50% chance", which is far less situational, yeah, Ignores Cover on Meltaguns is extremely situational for what you're going to use those meltaguns for.

Especially considering that if you want to ignore cover so hard you can just go 4 flamers and save 20 points.
 

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It was even better than re-roll to hit as Twin-Linked gets you a re-roll to Wound on Flamers as well, which is great for roasting infantry on an objective while Outflanking.
 

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It was even better than re-roll to hit as Twin-Linked gets you a re-roll to Wound on Flamers as well, which is great for roasting infantry on an objective while Outflanking.
Yes, whereas now you get a once-per-game "bonus" that is completely useless on one of your three special weapon options, which also happens to be quite valid.
 

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Shande
I've seen some people who got a bit to hoped up on promethium and forgot the meltas.

Ignores Cover Meltaguns are bad now?
Like others said chances are you're going to use a melta to take out a tank, and its not likely the tank will be in cover, being able to reroll Damage to a tank would be far more useful.


Ok so far with the 'dex' I'm disappointed with the lack of fluff, I mean they could of went into a bit more detail (or even mention them at all beyond the units) of the non battle orders.
 

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On balance, it seems they've taken out a few things that made units like Dominions *awesome* (and therefore no-brainers to take) but compensated by allowing smaller units with more weapons. You lose twin-linked, but for not much more than the original unit of 10 required to get 4 meltas you can have 8 meltas instead.

Allowing units of 5 Battle Sisters means gunlines with a Heavy Bolter in each squad becomes more possible. They took our critisisms of Command squads to heart, and there are now combat options. They've lost relentless, but gained more in exchange.

Personally, this is going to play to my gamestyle sooooo well I'm itching to get my copy. And the downsides - well, I've lived with Sisters downsides so long it no longer bothers me. Play to their strengths, rather than bemoan their weaknesses and try to compensate. *shrugs*
 

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Words_of_Truth, anti-air (and/or flyers), pie plates, and blob squads all are beneficial to sisters if you want to run them with guard allies. Sisters as allies to guard mostly just bring tons of melta/flamers, which you can run already minus power armor.
 

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Words_of_Truth, anti-air (and/or flyers), pie plates, and blob squads all are beneficial to sisters if you want to run them with guard allies. Sisters as allies to guard mostly just bring tons of melta/flamers, which you can run already minus power armor.
Don't forget that the new priests allow you to make a guard blob Fearless and with Hatred for less than it would cost to get a commissar, and said priest would also have a 4++ save, which the previous commissar lacks. Stack War Hymns on top of that and you can see just how beneficial we are talking about.

On balance, it seems they've taken out a few things that made units like Dominions *awesome* (and therefore no-brainers to take) but compensated by allowing smaller units with more weapons. You lose twin-linked, but for not much more than the original unit of 10 required to get 4 meltas you can have 8 meltas instead.

Allowing units of 5 Battle Sisters means gunlines with a Heavy Bolter in each squad becomes more possible. They took our critisisms of Command squads to heart, and there are now combat options. They've lost relentless, but gained more in exchange.

Personally, this is going to play to my gamestyle sooooo well I'm itching to get my copy. And the downsides - well, I've lived with Sisters downsides so long it no longer bothers me. Play to their strengths, rather than bemoan their weaknesses and try to compensate. *shrugs*
The problem is that, like I said already, the new codex just switches no-brainers around like a game of three cards in a shady alley. Rhinos were no-brainers before due to cost and squad sizes, including dominions being forced to 10-strong units to have 4 special weapons (unlike the majority of other armies' specialist units, for no good reason). Now Rhinos suck and immolators with twin-linked multi-meltas are the new no-brainers.

Also, due to the number of special and heavy weapons not scaling with unit size, there is no longer any benefit to sister blobs, so gunline armies are of course going to be a lot more popular. However, this just means we got the Chaos treatment: no internal balance, only one valid list, and the farther you stray from it the more you irremediably suck.

Yes, now it makes sense to invest in a command squad, pity that you unlock it with a Canoness, which is your only non-unique HQ available and that only looks viable because she got nerfed less than the other options. I don't miss the Confessor, but damn they managed to yet again reduce the amount of options we have even though we've been working with the exact same model range for almost two decades.

Of course you can still play Sisters to their strength. I'll add more: you can only play Sisters to their strengths, because every other option sucks. Power weapons? Forget about it. Rhinos? You're paying that 6++ out of your nose now and considering a unit of 5 in an immolator with a TL multi-melta now costs 5 points less than the basic unit of 10 in the previous codex, why even bother?

It's just a huge pile of wasted potential, it feels rushed, it feels as if though they have absolutely no idea what to do with the army and it marks once again how it's pointless to get your hopes up for a Sisters revamp that doesn't include a complete revamp of their entire model line.

Which best be coming in the future, because I don't foresee buying anything considering the prices just got up and the models are the absolute oldest in the entire game.
 

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The WD Codex didn't give you anything for running blobs either...
Sure, but you started with a minimum squad of 10, which also meant that adding an IC made the entire squad no longer fit in any transport option in the codex (thankfully a long gone proposition). Nowadays you can get two squads of 5 for 5 less points and get 4 special weapons total, or 2 special and 2 heavy weapons, and heavy flamers halved in cost.

None of the two versions gave anything for running blobs, but this one gives everything for minimum squads and nothing for blobs. Guess what kind of list it benefits?

Also 40pt Rhinos with a 6++ and Adamantium Will is better than the old 50pt version with no benefits. Yeah, it might a little hi, but we've we've paid more for less.
Be honest, the old 50 point Rhino with nothing came out when that was the standard point cost tag for Rhinos. Sure, it didn't take much for the 35 points standard to come out eventually, but the Witch Hunter codex was in no worse condition than those who were still waiting for an update, including Codex: Space Marines. Except said update never came except very late and in the form of the WDdex, which is a different point entirely.

And even then, for 5 extra points you get a 6++ and a bonus to Deny the Witch rolls, okay, so why did the Immolators get such a dramatic cost cut even though they get the same benefits? Someone in the dev team is playing favourites again.
 

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Nope. The Immolator is a copy and paste of the Razorback, with the same 5 point surcharge the Rhino has. The only difference is the option of Multi-Meltas, which (again as copy-pasted from SM) are the same cost as Heavy Bolters and Heavy Flamers.

The dramatic cost difference with the WDex is the lowered cost of the HFs it comes with standard. As HBs are the same cost as HFs now, the special ammo was dropped from those.
 

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Like others said chances are you're going to use a melta to take out a tank, and its not likely the tank will be in cover, being able to reroll Damage to a tank would be far more useful.
Well... yeah, if you could take Tank Hunters, you totally would, but that's not what you're offered. I don't know where the idea of 'Tanks? In cover? That's silly talk' comes from - the two most powerful armies in the meta right now, Eldar and Tau, both have permanent cover saves on their tanks, and often 4+ (not for Melta shots, admittedly, but dealing 33% more damage is REALLY GOOD).

And you need perhaps five infantry sized models to Obscure a Rhino-sized vehicle.

Vehicles are *usually* in cover, if you're playing with a decent amount of terrain, are playing against Eldar, Tau, Necrons or Dark Eldar (three of which are very strong armies found at most tournaments), or you're fighting Imperial Guard, Space Marines, Space Wolves, Blood Angels, or Chaos Space Marines and are fighting against Smoke Launchers, or are fighting someone intelligent enough to use their brain cells and bring their own cover, whether through bodies or an Aegis Line.


Shooting Vs Vehicles

Attacker Group 1 vs Defender Group

Calculations by Heresy Combat Calculator™ (powered by HAMulator™)

-----------------------------

Attackers

Attacker Group 1
Shots: 4
Hit Chance: 88.89%
Hits: 3.556
Glancing Chance: 8.33%
Penetration Chance: 83.33%
Glancing Saves: 0.099
Penetration Saves: 0.988
Glancing Hits: 0.198
Penetration Hits: 1.975
Shaken: 0.428
Stunned: 0.362
Weapon Destroyed: 0.362
Immobilized: 0.362
Wrecked: 0.329
Explodes: 0.329
Options: Reroll Hit, 2d6

-----------------------------

Defenders

Defender Group
Hits: 3.556
Glancing Saves: 0.099
Penetration Saves: 0.988
Glancing Hits: 0.198
Penetration Hits: 1.975
Results
Shaken: 0.428
Stunned: 0.362
Weapon Destroyed: 0.362
Immobilized: 0.362
Wrecked: 0.329
Explodes: 0.329


-----------------------------
Heresy Combat Calculator™ (powered by HAMulator™)

Shooting Vs Vehicles

Attacker Group 1 vs Defender Group

Calculations by Heresy Combat Calculator™ (powered by HAMulator™)

-----------------------------

Attackers

Attacker Group 1
Shots: 4
Hit Chance: 66.67%
Hits: 2.667
Glancing Chance: 8.33%
Penetration Chance: 83.33%
Glancing Hits: 0.222
Penetration Hits: 2.222
Shaken: 0.481
Stunned: 0.407
Weapon Destroyed: 0.407
Immobilized: 0.407
Wrecked: 0.37
Explodes: 0.37
Options: 2d6

-----------------------------

Defenders

Defender Group
Hits: 2.667
Glancing Hits: 0.222
Penetration Hits: 2.222
Results
Shaken: 0.481
Stunned: 0.407
Weapon Destroyed: 0.407
Immobilized: 0.407
Wrecked: 0.37
Explodes: 0.37


-----------------------------
Heresy Combat Calculator™ (powered by HAMulator™)
Well will you look at that: you just got BETTER at killing AV12 vehicles, and you even got more reliable to actually use your Act (Ld8 leadership = slightly higher than 50% chance).

Midnight
 

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Mhmm. Except that's only the one edge case of shooting meltaguns at vehicles with cover. Note this is a Dominion squad. Obscuring a vehicle with 5 infantry models won't work because it will simply step out of its transport on another side.

And it definitely doesn't address the fact that the Act is completely useless when people run Dominions with Flamers. Which is a rather usual way to go about it.
 

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What do you think from an imperial guard army would compliment sisters or vice versa?
I use Guardsmen in blobs, and Valkyries / Vendettas. Though I haven't used them in 6th yet, so don't know if my previous tactics would work of putting Sisters in them. I've been concentrating on my 'nids whilst waiting for this dex.

Sure, but you started with a minimum squad of 10, which also meant that adding an IC made the entire squad no longer fit in any transport option in the codex (thankfully a long gone proposition). Nowadays you can get two squads of 5 for 5 less points and get 4 special weapons total, or 2 special and 2 heavy weapons, and heavy flamers halved in cost.

None of the two versions gave anything for running blobs, but this one gives everything for minimum squads and nothing for blobs. Guess what kind of list it benefits?
One that other armies might want to use as Allies.

Take 20 Sisters to get 4 special weapons? Nope.
Take 2 squads of 5 sisters, and get 4 special / 2 heavy and 2 special weapons on cheap power armoured girls with access to MM immolators? Yes please. (Can the basic squads take immolators still?)

Let's face it, this list was not produced to get new Sister players. It was written to appease those who already have armies, and make Sisters a viable Ally option. Which they now are - and that will sell models.
 

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Take 2 squads of 5 sisters, and get 4 special / 2 heavy and 2 special weapons on cheap power armoured girls with access to MM immolators? Yes please. (Can the basic squads take immolators still?)
Yep. Check the Army Lists section, I've tossed two lists in there with the new Codex - one converted from an old one, with some thoughts as I went, and one where thinking of better days I was seeing how many Immolators I could get in there.

Lots of Immolators, as it turns out.

For Allying, two of those squads you described as Troops, Celestine for your HQ and a squad of Seraphim and you're set.
 

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A 20 blob squad does benefit somewhat from being large:
Any model in a fearless bubble makes the squad fearless.
1 priest can affect many more models reducing his point cost per model.
The only place I would take a power axe on the Superior for a squad.
Extra bodies for the LOS rolls on the ICs.

I'm not really arguing this is a great option though. That is really just a tarpit unit.

As far as the Faith changes and having a better chance at using it successfully rolling LD8 or LD9 by spending +10 points for a single use or spending even more points for a second use vs a standard 50% roll every turn; I certainly wouldn't rate as better. It is probably worse overall, but you can use your ability more reliably I guess, so that is better.

Yeah, the changes do stink on the Dominion flamers, so stay with melta and work from there. Someone was high pricing the Storm bolter upgrade from the bolter at 5 points. That is not even close to being worth it.
 

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Mhmm. Except that's only the one edge case of shooting meltaguns at vehicles with cover.
And what else, pray, do you shoot your Meltaguns at?

Note this is a Dominion squad. Obscuring a vehicle with 5 infantry models won't work because it will simply step out of its transport on another side.
And nobody will obscure their tanks with just 5 men, so it's irrelevant anyway. And this is all assuming your opponent has let a T3 Meltagun-armed squad in an AV11 tank get to within 6" of their vehicles, which isn't a good feature of the Dominions, it's a bad feature of your opponent.

And it definitely doesn't address the fact that the Act is completely useless when people run Dominions with Flamers. Which is a rather usual way to go about it.
That's true, but perhaps this will change the way people run them. Now they're better at anti-tank, maybe people will run them with Meltaguns instead.

Midnight
 
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