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So do you think they'll be a good ally force then?
It does work as an Allied force pretty well I think. Stick to the proven units. Grab Celestine for the HQ, Battle Sisters to fill the Troops slot (really, they do it well. Still among the best Troops in the game). The units that really make it worth it are a squad of Seraphim as Celestine's bodyguard, and maybe an Exorcist because it's nearly always useful.
 

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Discussion Starter #382
This won't really be reviving my army at large. I think I'll continue to keep my Sisters in 1000pt and less games.

I don't mind it all that much, the faith points change makes me sad, simply because in the Repentia case, if they had their act of faith as a default they would be sooo much better it's unreal. Giving the a transport is nice but without an assault ramp I still wouldn't take either. Plus having them as one use, yeah you could argue it encourages more tactical use but to me it's total bull.

PEs make me incredibly sad, love the models but I may opt for something else though a swarm of arcoflagents in front may have some merit for them, at least giving a cover save.

The Cannoness is appealing now, since before Uriah and Celestine were just THAT good, I still think Uriah is great but Canoness is a decent option if yo don't fancy Uriah or Celestine.

Priests ate VERY appealing, really do fancy going with 9 Sisters + Priest for my troops.
 

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So do you think they'll be a good ally force then?
Yes, they're great allies, but they don't have legs to stand on their own. Start collecting something else if you don't already, or get 10 sisters and two immolators, you will hardly ever field more than these even with allies.

@Mokuren, for the power weapons... They've copied and pasted all the weapon prices from Codex: Space Marines. Never mind the fact that while a Melta is a Melta, a Power Weapon on a WS4/T4 Space Marine is a completely different proposition from a Power Weapon on a WS3/T3 Sister of Battle.
And, like I said, this is a fucking terrible shitstain on a Codex that's already mediocre at the very best.

Condemnor not only fires just once a game, it's also ridiculously situational - a combi-plasma or combi-flamer you'll generally find a good target for. Psykers are decidedly more rare breed of target.
I seriously have no idea what went through their heads. I honestly believe that people at GW have Fantasy and 40K switched, they think that 40K psykers are uber-powerful all-mighty specimen that win or lose games on their own. That's lvl 4 wizards in Fantasy. A lvl 3 psyker in 40K is a waste of 75 to 100 points, plus the model cost, which is usually pretty frail as well.

Repentia... If you get them into CC they might be decent, and you can pick off vehicles with them if your opponent is a moron. The Act of Faith is completely useless though. I've no idea how they forgot about Overwatch, but having only the 6+ Invul save means they die if an enemy shoots them so much as a filthy look.
No, even if you get them into CC, they'll be slaughtered by guardsmen, thanks to their initiative 1 attacks. Heck, they'll get beaten up in CC by friggin' Fire Warriors. This is supposed to be our dedicated CC unit? And they get beaten up by Fire Warriors?

And no, they're no tank hunters. How are they even going to get close to a vehicle and somehow not shot to death in the obligatory turn in which they will disembark from their non-assault transport, assuming it wasn't blown up in the first place and they didn't all die in the following explosion? A unit that only works if my opponent does everything in their power to lose can't be a good unit.

Priests have been buffed and their role STILL doesn't work with a normal setup. I'm half tempted to see if I can build a CC-focused force, though. 6 minimum size BS Squads in MM Immys with a couple Exorcists, some Seraphim, and the rest just filled up with Battle Conclaves...
Priests are Zealots, which not only means that as long as you have one in a unit, your Canoness' act of faith is even more of a joke, but they make said unit Fearless, therefore making a good chunk of our precious and expensive Relics practically moot.

Yes, GW wanted to sell priests, we know how this works, it was exactly the same with St. Celestine in the WDdex: it was shameless, it was blatant, it was painful, it's repeating all over again.

On the bright side, for 25 points I can now make my Imperial Guard infantry blobs fearless and, in case they get assaulted, they have hatred and if I'm lucky I can get them to reroll armour (assuming they still get it) or to-wound rolls.

All for 25 points.

How many priest minis do they have at GW's? They must number in the tens of thousands!
 

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Yes, they're great allies, but they don't have legs to stand on their own. Start collecting something else if you don't already, or get 10 sisters and two immolators, you will hardly ever field more than these even with allies.
I was thinking maybe Imperial Guard, maybe fashion them like Frateris Militia or something, converted out of Empire Flagellants.
 

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How many priest minis do they have at GW's? They must number in the tens of thousands!
I'm not sure, but it's a lot and I'm betting they've got a couple boxes full of Arco-Flagellants as well :)
 

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Correct. He may replace his bolt pistol AND his chainsword both. It's expensive, but might be worth it if you can protect him :) You can also just ditch the Chainsword for another pistol - firing a Bolt Pistol and a Plasma pistol is still firing two pistols.
Really when you think about it like that, the only sensible option is to replace the chainsword instead of the bolt pistol if you do decide go to with either a grav pistol or plasma pistol, that way you get an extra shot AND you still get a bonus attack for having two close combat weapons.
 

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@Mokuren, for the power weapons... They've copied and pasted all the weapon prices from Codex: Space Marines. Never mind the fact that while a Melta is a Melta, a Power Weapon on a WS4/T4 Space Marine is a completely different proposition from a Power Weapon on a WS3/T3 Sister of Battle.
Not just Space Marines, but a power weapon is pretty much 15pt cost across the board in 6ed (see codex: elder for example)

Really when you think about it like that, the only sensible option is to replace the chainsword instead of the bolt pistol if you do decide go to with either a grav pistol or plasma pistol, that way you get an extra shot AND you still get a bonus attack for having two close combat weapons.
I have liked this setup for assault Sgts (and vanguard), since the unit's effective shooting range is only 12" anyway and it gives me another AP2 shot in the unit.
 

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@Zion, some notes on your notes as I go through them:

Relics:
Blade of Admonition is actually a copy - paste of the old Blessed Weapon, except we're only offered a Sword version. It's pretty good from what I remember, served me faithfully in multiple editions. It's alright. I mean we are talking about what is basically a relic blade that's master crafted. And our only AP2 CCW is 30 points.
Mace of Valaan - Kyrinov is an even more useless model. He's not in the Codex anymore :p I know he's not in the codex, but you can use him as a preacher if you want to bring that Mace.

Wargear
Eviscerator access is actually significantly wider than it was before. Every Sister Superior has access to Melee Weapons - EXCEPT for the Seraphim Superior you named as having it. But yeah, 30 points :nono: Check again, there is an annotation that says "Canoness, Seraphim Superior and Ecclesiarchy Priest only"

Dedicated Transports
The Immo is a C&P of the SM Razorback with a single different weapon option now. Immo effectively went down 10 points but paid for the 6+ Inv save. No, we went down 5. We were 65 now we're 60. The Multi-melta one is the only one that got cheaper.

Elites
Repentia - yeah no, their FNP doesn't IMPROVE with their Act. They don't normally HAVE it anymore. They'll pretty much die if an enemy so much as shoots them a filthy look. The general uselessness of Repentia may well be continuing for their third Codex in a row.You're right on this on, that's my mistake, I'll fix it.
Replies in yellow because it's too early to muck with tags.
 

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If I find myself in need of AP2 CCWs, I've probably aimed the Exorcists and meltas at the wrong targets. :grin: My main problem with the Canoness is that she still lacks a Jump Pack option, so that Blade of Admonition is going to waste as you can't really pick your fights.

For Eviscerators, having checked, interestingly, my copy says:
* Canoness and Ministorum Priest only.

So which it ends up being might still be up in the air. It's apparently still being edited... which might also explain some of the typos.

Regarding my note on the Immolator, much like the Rhino it's 5 points more than the SM Razorback, which it effectively equals. The only real difference is the Shield of Faith. So 10 points down to equal the Razorback price, and 5 points added back in for the SoF. They've copied Codex: Space Marines quite (too) enthusiastically for prices.
 

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Not just Space Marines, but a power weapon is pretty much 15pt cost across the board in 6ed (see codex: elder for example)
Thank you notification message... I'm going to have to point out that the Eldar who get Power Weapons are all WS4 or higher. Autarch, WS6. Dire Avenger Exarch, WS4. Howling Banshees, WS4 Power Swords with an Eldar thrown in free for every purchase :laugh:
 

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I have epub and can confirm the * on eviscerators only on Priests and Canonesses.

A 15 point power weapon is OK on Marines. etc., but I agree is pretty shit on sisters especially with WS3, S3, T3, I3, ouch. You have to really want that power axe.
 

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Any decent lore additions? I read the wargaming report and it mentioned some but I was wondering whether there's any one could provide some more detail?
 

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Some small additions - the 6 Orders militant gain a bit more definition. There's some nice historical notes, some of which we haven't seen before, or which offer a different perspective, but it's a short section.

The units have small bits of fluff, but there's nothing new there... Well, I think Celestine is officially alive again. Or maybe just less officially dead? :search:

The descriptions on the Relics are actually new, and personally, I like the quotes they sprinkled throughout the thing, even though most are - again - ones we've seen before.

"Retreat? I have a score of the Emperor’s finest Battle Sisters at my command and you think a few hundred alien savages are cause to turn our back and flee? Let the enemy come, they shall find neither our resolve nor our aim wavering." - Sister Superior Lacena, Order of Our Martyred Lady
Overall, don't buy this one for fluff.
 

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A few things.
The power weapon cost is to be expected. For one thing, if you give a Power Maul to a Priest and get The Emperor's Strength, that little guy is S5 AP2, or can Smash at S8, making him quite nasty.
Repentia are certainly still a bit dodgy, but improve with Jacobus if he's the Warlord, gaining 5++ which he can make re-rollable.
The condemnor is being called a meta-breaker. It causes Perils on a unit that it hits, meaning two shots from them kill all the Heralds in a Screamerstar. It also works on models with Psychic Pilot, making for a potential shock for Grey Knight tanks (serves 'em right)
You can stack Priests in one unit, and get a Conclave for each Priest. You can stick Crusaders at the front and give them a re-roll on their 3++.
Dominions got a lot better with the option for 4 specials in a 5-strong squad, but their Act is pointless with flamers.
The Canoness can now get an Eviscerator, a Rosarius, and Eternal Warrior and come in at the same cost as Celestine. That's certainly better than her previous incarnation, though whether S6 AP2 is worth losing the benefits of the Saint is debatable.
I think Jacobus is the stand-out, though. An extra Act of Faith, Fearless and Counter-attack in a 12" bubble, decent melee if he uses Strength adds up to a lot for not many points. A 20-strong squad with Simulacrum, Jacobus, a Canoness with Litanies of Faith and several Priests is now in death-star territory, which is certainly novel.
 

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This codex hit a few things hard with the nerf bat, did some odd things, and did some nice things, I have to disagree about the haters.

Celestine got nerfed. That everyone had to see coming. Only one "we'll be back" a game. But, she's fully healed and more likely to succeed.

Repentia: Give up and go home. No chance of ever delivering to HTH. Drop.

Odd things: taking confessors away. mixing stuff up. I don't mind two acts of faith a game. Just makes a simulacrum more important.

Good things = All the warlord trains are Great. I like them. And a more consistent codex. I'm going to play a full sisters list, and enjoy it.
 

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Good things = All the warlord trains are Great. I like them. And a more consistent codex. I'm going to play a full sisters list, and enjoy it.
A canoness with Rage is "great"? I agree the amount of good warlord traits is higher than the amount of absolute shit ones, but "They're all great" is way too starry-eyed fanboy-squeal level of optimism, and by "optimism" I mean "huge pieces of ham stuck on the eyes".

Gaining Rage on a canoness is shit. Gaining Fear on a canoness is still shit because it doesn't work against anyone you're going to need it against, and you're most likely going to win against those you don't need it against in any case, assuming it ever boils down to a close combat, which you're supposed to avoid in the first place with sisters. Except the best boosts the codex got are in the CC department, which 6e nerfed to hell and back with quite the abandon.

Oh, and 15 points might be the 6e standard, but even an Eldar guardian with a power weapon is more useful than a veteran superior with a power weapon: WS4 I4 means he's most likely going to have a chance to use it when he needs it, and it only gets better the more "elite" the unit is, not to mention an Autarch is better than a Canoness in practically everything and his upgrades leave her in the dust extremely quickly.

Also, as a friend of mine noted while laughing his ass off at my nerfs, even Chaos, one of the worst 6e codexes, gets a +2S AP2 weapon for 5 points more than the Blade of Admonition, except it also grants +1d6 attacks and is wielded by a model that is way stronger than a canoness in the first place. It's not nice when a dedicated close combat relic pales in comparison to the relics in other armies for the same price range, and that's even before accounting for the weaker model that gets to wield it.
 

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The power weapon cost is to be expected. For one thing, if you give a Power Maul to a Priest and get The Emperor's Strength, that little guy is S5 AP2, or can Smash at S8, making him quite nasty.
And one model who MIGHT do something is a lousy thing to balance the prices for everyone else around. Not that they did, as noted before they just straight up copied and pasted prices from Codex: Space Marines.

Repentia are certainly still a bit dodgy, but improve with Jacobus if he's the Warlord, gaining 5++ which he can make re-rollable.
No, we left Dodgytown two Codices ago. They're unusable for the third in a row. Due to lack of Assault Ramps they'll be open to at least one turn of enemy fire and then still need to get through Overwatch, THEN need to survive being at Initiative one (Act does help there, but there's not going to be many of them left at this point).

The condemnor is being called a meta-breaker. It causes Perils on a unit that it hits, meaning two shots from them kill all the Heralds in a Screamerstar. It also works on models with Psychic Pilot, making for a potential shock for Grey Knight tanks (serves 'em right)
Perils of the Warp only does a single Wound, and if you're fighting an army with a lot of Psykers, that's normally still kinda meh. For an all-comers list, it's far too situational - Psykers aren't anywhere near as bad as mages in WFB to begin with, and all Sisters have Adamantium Will now to make them even easier to tackle.

You can stack Priests in one unit, and get a Conclave for each Priest. You can stick Crusaders at the front and give them a re-roll on their 3++.
... once they're in CC. It's a very important qualification in the current shooty environment. Priests are good for their cost, but there are gradations.

Dominions got a lot better with the option for 4 specials in a 5-strong squad, but their Act is pointless with flamers.
Twin-Linked was great. Ignores Cover is situational, and pretty bad overall. You can toss more Specials in there, which keep them in the game, but you're paying for those. I'd not call it an improvement overall. About balances out.

The Canoness can now get an Eviscerator, a Rosarius, and Eternal Warrior and come in at the same cost as Celestine. That's certainly better than her previous incarnation, though whether S6 AP2 is worth losing the benefits of the Saint is debatable.
If she could have a Jump Pack to get her the mobility she needs to fully use it, it probably would be. As it is, no - though the Command Squad may make it worth it depending on build.

I think Jacobus is the stand-out, though. An extra Act of Faith, Fearless and Counter-attack in a 12" bubble, decent melee if he uses Strength adds up to a lot for not many points. A 20-strong squad with Simulacrum, Jacobus, a Canoness with Litanies of Faith and several Priests is now in death-star territory, which is certainly novel.
It's a death-star once it is IN CLOSE COMBAT. With War Hymns stacking up in the Fight Sub-Phase (which is the ONLY time they work), things look pretty good - but a Battle Cannon shot or two from afar will ruin your day. Admittedly it's a cheap enough death-star that it won't ruin your game (and it will attract fire from other things). Note the Canoness doesn't really have a role in this unit - you can put the Litanies on a Priest.
 
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