Warhammer 40k Forum and Wargaming Forums banner

1 - 13 of 13 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
227 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
After a long hiatus from the Sisters Militant, I've been re-visiting the Witch Hunters in anticipation of the new codex. I've fixed the list so now squad sizes are legal. I haven't played this build yet, but I'm eager to do so and will let you all know how it goes.

HQ - 322
Canoness - Blessed Weapon, Plasma Pistol, Cloak of St. Aspira, Rosarius
Celestian Retinue (10) - MG, HF, Vet w/ Eviscerator

Elite - 160
Inquisitor - Bolter-Stake Crossbow, Psychic Hood
Vindicare Assassin

Troops - 488
Battle Sisters (10) - MG, HF, Vet w/ BP and CCW, Rhino w/ SL
Battle Sisters (10) - MG, HF, Vet w/ BP and CCW, Rhino w/ SL
Storm Stoopers (7) - GL [2]

Fast Attack - 260
Seraphim Squad (10) - Inferno Pistols [2], Vet w/ Eviscerator

Heavy Support - 270
Exorcist
Exorcist

Faith Points: 6

How it plays: Seraphim stream forward while Canoness and retinue run up behind them. The goal it to tie an enemy unit up with the Seraphs for a round, Hit and Run out at end of the enemy's turn, then assault with Canoness. Exorcists take care of enemy artillery while sisters ride around and pop tanks. Inquisitor and STs are objective holders. Vindicare is in because I absolutely love this model and he has proved his worth to me time and time over.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,137 Posts
Your canonness has two two-handed weapons - and will rarely need a Rosarius when she can typically count on a 2++ save. She does need a Mmantle of Ophelia though - Strength six pain is everywhere.

Why a Palatine? A Canonness is just ten points more and so much better.

When you say 'Battle sisters (5) does that mean five in a squad? Minimum squad size is 10. And you should really give them Heavy Flamers or Flamers to go with the Meltaguns.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
227 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 ·
As I said... it was a long hiatus. Been so used to playing BA mech with five marines per Rhino. I had a lot of fun playing this army, although it wasn't legit, and will work out another list for you guys... right after I get some sleep. :victory:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
227 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Made corrections to the list in my original post, thanks for catching my mistake so quickly. Let me know what you think.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,137 Posts
To be more thorough than I was before, let me break it down like this...

I stand by what I said before: A Rosarius not worth it - your Canonness should be counting on a 2+ invulnerable save. She still needs a Mantle of Ophelia.

Your Celestians are quipped with short-range weapons (Heavy Flamer, Meltagun, eviscerator) and have no transport. they will never get close enough to the enemy to do anything. Same goes for your Canonness, in fact.

The Inquisitor cannot hold objectivs. I wouldn't bother with an Inquisitor at all, but if you like the Vindicare then carry on. Chap's got to follow his heart.

You've outfitted your Battle sister squads for close combat. God no. Battle sisters just don't do it. Combi-Flamers or Combi-Meltas are best. Eviscerators or combi-plasmas if you're feeling funky. Even the basic bolter is a better choice than BP+CCW.

The Book of St. Lucius might be the best piece of wargear in the whole game. Pretty much every Veteran sister Superior should have one.

We get Extra Armour for a mere 5 points, who wouldn't want that?

The only job Stormtroopers ave is to camp out on your home objective and hope nobody shoots them. As such, giving them a grenade launcher is rather a waste.

Seraphim are over-costed and underpowered. Only take them if you want coolness over usefulness. That said, eight is the best squad size - it maximises your chances of performing any given Act of Faith.

Exorcists are fine.


Thoughts:

The Witchhunters Codex has three good units in it: Battle sisters, Exorcists and the Canonness. Everything else is bellow-average (Immolators, Seraphim) or worse.

Therefore, the truelly effective lists (not the kind I run, I confess) maximise the number of these good units. In objective games you'll find that two units of Battle sisters are not enough. I run four at 1'500 and often wish for a fifth.

Celestians are only worth it if you want a squad of less than ten, or you want some way to get a multimelta to the front lines and you've spent all your HS slots on Exorcists.

Your army lives and dies by its faith points. Every unit which is not Faithful is actually a handicap. My 1'500 list has nine faith points and I'll pretty much use them all (and then some) in a game.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
227 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
To be more thorough than I was before, let me break it down like this...

I stand by what I said before: A Rosarius not worth it - your Canonness should be counting on a 2+ invulnerable save. She still needs a Mantle of Ophelia.
From what I've seen, Rosarius saves more often than Mantle.

Your Celestians are quipped with short-range weapons (Heavy Flamer, Meltagun, eviscerator) and have no transport. they will never get close enough to the enemy to do anything. Same goes for your Canonness, in fact.
Celestians are meant to sweep into combat a step behind my Serpahs. I play against a lot of people who run CC armies, so we usually meet for CC in the middle of the table. With AoF, these Celestians have mauled Tyranid Warriors! Though I would like to capitalize on the number of Evicerators I have in the unit... love em.

The Inquisitor cannot hold objectivs. I wouldn't bother with an Inquisitor at all, but if you like the Vindicare then carry on. Chap's got to follow his heart.
When joined with a unit of Storm Troopers, he can.

You've outfitted your Battle sister squads for close combat. God no. Battle sisters just don't do it. Combi-Flamers or Combi-Meltas are best. Eviscerators or combi-plasmas if you're feeling funky. Even the basic bolter is a better choice than BP+CCW.
Kitted my Superiors with BP and CCW because those are the models I have. I've never really had a problem with these getting into CC, but just in case that extra attack from Vet is useful.

The Book of St. Lucius might be the best piece of wargear in the whole game. Pretty much every Veteran sister Superior should have one.
How is the book useful if most of my units will have a 9-10 Ld anyway? I am notorious for rolling low most of the time, so Ld has never been an issue with me.

We get Extra Armour for a mere 5 points, who wouldn't want that?
True, no arguments here... just don't know where I could scrounge up the points.

The only job Stormtroopers ave is to camp out on your home objective and hope nobody shoots them. As such, giving them a grenade launcher is rather a waste.
Really that's the best STs have for ranged mob support.

Seraphim are over-costed and underpowered. Only take them if you want coolness over usefulness. That said, eight is the best squad size - it maximises your chances of performing any given Act of Faith.
Once again, whenever I've used Seraphim they've always proved useful. Bustin tanks, scrappin with boyz, or in one game where they took down a Necron Destroyer Lord in one turn, losing only one model.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,137 Posts
From what I've seen, Rosarius saves more often than Mantle.

If you're doing things right she has a 2+ invulnerable save. spending that many points to buy her a 4+ invulnerable save is a waste. On the other hand - if she gets shot enough one hit is bound to sneak through even a 2+ save - and one STR6 wound is all it takes to kill her without a Mantle of Ophelia.

Celestians are meant to sweep into combat a step behind my Serpahs. I play against a lot of people who run CC armies, so we usually meet for CC in the middle of the table. With AoF, these Celestians have mauled Tyranid Warriors! Though I would like to capitalize on the number of Evicerators I have in the unit... love em.

Celestians on foot can't 'sweep' anywhere, and if you're fighting CC armies it's even more important that you mech up to stay out of CC as long as possible. Sisters are just plain bad at CC.

I believe that at some point your Celestians waded into a unit of Warriors and took them down. Once, my Canonness was charged by a Daemon Prince and killed it in a single phase, taking no wounds. I'd be foolish to count on that ever happening again, though.


When joined with a unit of Storm Troopers, he can.
Yes, he can in that case.


Kitted my Superiors with BP and CCW because those are the models I have. I've never really had a problem with these getting into CC, but just in case that extra attack from Vet is useful.
Of course you've never had a problem getting into CC - your enemies know they are better than you at CC and try to get there asap. If you have two spare sisters with bolters, use them as Vets. One extra shot from the bolter is worth more than one extra attack from the CCW.


How is the book useful if most of my units will have a 9-10 Ld anyway? I am notorious for rolling low most of the time, so Ld has never been an issue with me.

Actually, you roll perfectly average, just like the rest of us, but you have the Gambler's Fallacy, and probably the normal human habbit of only remembering the successes, not the failures. Also - when the 'nids have just torn up five Sisters you no longer have Leadership 9, you have leadership 4 and slim chance of passing that test.


True, no arguments here... just don't know where I could scrounge up the points.

Well, your Celestians and that rosarius aren't doing anything. Convert the Celestian sqaud into a Battle Sister sqaud, that gives you more troops and frees up a mess of points.


Really that's the best STs have for ranged mob support.
But Stormtroopers aren't for ranged mob support and trying to make them do it is only going to prevent them from doing the only thing they're good for.

Once again, whenever I've used Seraphim they've always proved useful. Bustin tanks, scrappin with boyz, or in one game where they took down a Necron Destroyer Lord in one turn, losing only one model.

Again - do not confuse statistical anomalies with predictable results, and do not trust your memory. They are not worth the points. I run two squads, but I like the models, I'd never claim they are good units.


This is all sounding pretty negative, but it's assumed that if you're posting an army list, you're looking for criticism. That's pretty much why I don't post army lists. I know what I want to play and I care more for fluff and fun than optimisation.

Your main problem seems to be trying to make units do things they're bad at, and building to shore up massive, gaping holes with small bandages. Trying to make Sisters good at CC is just never going to work. so don't. Instead concentrate on being a powerhouse in the 6"- 10" range where you are already strong. Do it right and the few enemy models that ever reach CC are much less of a threat.

Same goes for Stormtroopers. They have exactly one reason to exist - a squad of five is cheaper than a squad of ten Battle sisters. Their job is to go to ground next to your home objective and hope the enemy don't have flamers. Trying to make them do anything else is only going to frustrate you.


If my advice doesn't mesh with what you want to play (or the models that you have) then be good you should ignore me - but this is not the place for fluffy and fun, it's the place for optimising...

Oh, and remember - the dice have no memory, and the human brain tends to only remember those times when something unlikely happened.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,132 Posts
Get rid of that storm trooper squad and upgrade your Inquisitor to and Inquisitor Lord and take 3 warriors and give them special weapons. A Ld 10 psychic hood is much better then a Ld 8 psychic hood plus you can get 3 special weapons instead of 2. The only downside is you won't be able to capture objectives.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
227 Posts
Discussion Starter · #10 ·
New Revision

Here's what I've worked out using some suggestions given. Thanks for all the input in helping me hone my Sister's strategy. While I didn't take all the suggestions, so far this list has run 3-0-0. Two against Necrons and once versus Orks. **Note no points costs again, at a friend's place typing from memory**

HQ
Canoness - Blessed CCW, PP, Jump Pack, Cloak, Book

Elite
Inquisitor - Bolter-Stake, Psychic Hood
Vindicare

Troops
Battle Sisters (10) - HF, MG, Vet w/ Book, Rhino - Armor, Smoke
Battle Sisters (10) - HF, MG, Vet w/ Book, Rhino - Armor, Smoke
Battle Sisters (10) - HF, MG, Vet w/ Book

Fast Attack
Seraphim (10) - Inferno [2], Vet

Heavy Support
Immolator - TL-MM
Exorcist
Exorcist

Faith Points: 6

The strategy has been focused fire. Iquisitor sits back with last group of Sister to hold objectives, if I need I break him away to use AoF. Exorcists bombard Heavy Support. Immolator pops transports so sisters in Rhinos can drive around, disembark, and crossfire enemy infantry. Canoness and Seraphim will hang back behind cover until enemy gets close, I always make sure they can get the assault. Vindicare sets up to deal with specific target, usually an IC or Vehicle, use whatever special shot I need to deal with the target as soon as possible to capitalize on his talents.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,137 Posts
That's a respectable win rate, though you were lucky against the Orks. I grant Orks don't like flamers, but on another day they could easily have overrun you with sheer weight of numbers and we all know how that would've ended.

As for your list: The first time you fight Eldar you'll wish your Canonness had a Mantle of Ophelia.

Consider combi-flamers or combi-meltas for your Veterans.

I'd loose two Serraphim and consider giving the Vet an Eviscerator.

Personally (and this is only taste) I don't care for the MM Immolator. when I use an Immolator as HS I much prefer the HB w/ Blessed ammunition. It's just such a problem solver.
 

·
Grey Knight Converter
Joined
·
2,169 Posts
First off, I agree with Azezel about his points. You definitely want the Mantle Of Ophelia. Drop a few seraphim and get an eviserator. I would consider taking flamers on them instead of inferno pistols. If they are sitting back, you aren't really popping vehicles anyways, but those divine guidance flamers can but a huge hit on infantry.

Also, if you have an Inquisitor joining the sisters squad they are no longer faithful and thus can't use faith points. Just remember that. Also, not sure he is worth the psychic hood. Most casters have a leadership of 9 or 10. So you aren't likely to stop the powers with the hood. You are probably have about the same chance using the Sister's natural 5+ invulnerable to psychic powers.

How do you plan to deal with armies that can outrange you, like guard and eldar. Sister's make a great static army when their opponents have to come towards them. When they have to move up and attack, they can have more problems, I would consider that fact when you build an army list.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
227 Posts
Discussion Starter · #13 ·
I would really like to find the points for an Inquisitor Lord + Retinue, but they can become quite the points sink. As I've said, I don't play in tournaments. The armies I have to contend with around here are Orks, Necron, Chaos Marines, Tyranids, Tau, and Space Wolves. So mostly this list is designed to deal with the meta game in this area. I will try to drop some Seraphs and Infernos for Mantle and Combi, see how it plays out, and if I like it post a new new revision.

Also, it wasn't luck that won out over the Orks. My opponent made a couple of really bad play errors. He's not a bad player cause he realized pretty much as soon as it happened, but it did give me the slight edge to beat him. Which is funny because I've battled him more than any of my other friends and have only won three times... out of probably thirty games >,<
 
1 - 13 of 13 Posts
Top