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So be it.
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All this recent talk about the white dwarf going out and whatnot has got me thinking back to the good ol' days when the magazine was good. It's not even so much the magazine itself, though, it's like the entire face of 40k has changed in less than a decade. I was reading through my old rulebook (I came in during 3rd) and I found myself extremely impressed with it. The rules were a little weird at some bits (because I'm so used to the new ones), but the missions were both simple and fun and there was a great built in hobby section. It talked about the "typical gamer," someone who starts with a small army, paints it well, builds their own terrain (no matter how poorly), names their models (or at least their commander)... not to mention that a box of tactical marines was $20, and I complained to my older brother that five scouts were $15, and codexes were around the same (I think that the BA supplement was actually $10). Try comparing that to the current state of the game. $80 for that new tyranid guy, $50 codexes (with $100 limited edition versions) and even $50 supplements. Everythings bigger, everything better, everythings more expensive ($$ - though pointswise they were often cheaper).

So, what's the point of saying all of this?

When I started writing I just wanted to rant. I hadn't actually planned on posting this, but then I had an idea. For starters, there were some really interesting scenarios back then and I think I'm going to update them for 6th. There were also a few useful hobby tricks that I think people would want to know - terrain building, painting, tactics (though these were a bit odd)... I want, in a sense, to go back to those days without getting rid of the current rules. I'm even fine with all these weird new supplements (escalation, strongpoint) and the craziness of some of the new codexes and armies. I don't use them, but that's no reason for everyone else not to.

I feel like I'm rambling a bit. The idea is, essentially, collect all the cool ideas from ages past and update them for 6th. This means white dwarf pages, old rulebooks, maybe those "how to paint GW minis" guides (though I've never seen them) and let people use them. Scenarios, hobby tricks, cool little fluff articles... I am also interested in developing a way of playing where competitiveness is discouraged and fluffiness gains points somehow. I'm not sure how this would work, but I think it would be cool for an all kroot army to have a shot of winning, or play a blood angels armored strikeforce. Maybe take some of the cool fluffy apocalypse formations and play them against each other, but I'm not sure. Does any of this sound appealing to anyone? I would be ok with running the collection thing - I could collect it in a thread, post pictures etc. but I would need people to send me stuff, preferably some of it updated.

Let me know if you are interested, or if you have anything to say about this. GLHF and GG guys

-JAMOB
 

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I remember 3rd edition, it was a massive change from the very slow to play 2nd edition. Now I must admit the scenarios were interesting, but they did get stale very quickly. I suspect the same will happen in 6th so I would be interested in seeing how converting the missions to 6th works.
 

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I'm all for nostalgia, but i think there are a lot of advantages to the playing field at present. Cost wise it's a more expensive hobby, but it was never cheap. I'm certainly happy paying more for the current models than the plastics i was buying when i started. It's also nice not to have a massive box of cardboard when you buy the starter set (i'm looking at you 2nd ed. box)

You can still play fun lists and old scenarios if you want, provided the people you play against are open to it. I don't think you need a set of rules to do so.

I do miss the old hobby articles, and whilst you can still do that stuff it's rarely highlighted by GW. When i started out everyone built their own scenery. I realise that GW wants to sell it's own terrain, but i think they are missing a trick by excluding this aspect of the old magazines.

Lego magazine always has patterns to build little models each month, and no matter what they are my son always wants to build them. This just perpetuates his interest in lego, which is why we have so many tubs full of the stuff. I think if they started including things like this in White Dwarf again, it would spark a lot more interest than just pretty pictures.



Back on topic - i have some of the old supplements scanned up on my computer so i'll see what i can do about converting them for 6th when i get a chance :)
 

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Yeah, I do like the old gw as it were. Although I came in 5th, just after the blood angels hit, I was erasing the battlefleet gothic rules awhile ago as my school club really enjoys it. But in it they had much more, you didn't have to buy templates, you didn't have to buy all the pointless knock nacs that they could just give 1-2 pages for you to photo copy instead. The rules where also much more balanced so they sold a bit of everything, not just 40% heldrakes 40% riptides, 20% everything else as they do ATM.
But anyway back on 40k :D I think this will turn out well, at the very least I'm all open to new scenarios that I can ogle at and wish I had someone to play it with :(
 

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Heh, no they weren't balanced at all.

Marine armies consisted of 3x5 man tactical squads armed with LasPlas, leaving 900pts for the rest of the army, while CSM just went for Four full obliterator squads and whatever else fit in. It is just that the increased awareness of the vocal minority allowed by the internet and its ease of access alongside the colletive brains of perhaps 30 or so tactical innovators to spot the broken rules or more pkwerful options.

Throw in more expensive models and peoples unwillingness to get less bang for buck (effectively creating a pay to win culture) making many clubs have a 'thatguy' or 4, natural competitiveness bringing it out in people. I can remember when i first started i saw a new shop called GW open up. I didn't eat lunch for three days so i could spend my money on a £6 blister pack of wood elf scouts. I was dead proud until my mum hit me with a rolling pin for foolishly wasting money. But gradually after saving pocket money for 2 weeks i bought a £12 treeman. Christmas came around and I got an army case, Ravening Hordes and about a dozen blister packs, as well,as the new LotR Last Alliance plastics. Everything fit, just a bit of cutting needed.

Now the average kid needs to be bankrolled by their parents more than pocket money based spending; same wood elf scout unit is a multipart multiuse unit of 10, costing £30 (50% per model increase), while treeman is a 15" tall model which cannot fit inside box and costing £40.



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The problem with rewarding fluff and penalising competitiveness is that no-one can tell someone else that their army is unfluffy.

For example I've been playing Ulthwé Mechdar since 3rd Edition. Wave Serpents, Falcons and Fire Prisms with supporting units. It's just a paint scheme I love with models I like the look of with amazing fluff that I can really get behind. In 3rd Ed then it was ok, but not amazing. In 4th it was pretty good (Starcannons!) and for all of 5th it was pretty terrible, only being saved by invulnerable Falcons with DAVU squads. Now 6th has rolled around, suddenly it's "Overpowered cheese" to which I reply with a hearty "Fuck you". If I've stuck with it through so many years of being sub-par then I don't see why I should be penalised for suddenly having a top tier army through a series of fortunate codex rules and point values. I view my list with 30 Guardians, 4 Serpents, two Farseers and three Prisms as "Fluffy" because Ulthwé is renowned for Guardians and Farseers, and Eldar are famous for their fast movement (mechanised and otherwise) and high technology vehicles. Other people see it as power gaming.

You can say the same thing for things like Scarabfarm (when it was a thing), Nob Bikers (likewise) and Double-Drake/Riptide lists. There's always someone out there who just really likes the story/model or has come up with a cool back story for his army. Who are you to say that he's a WAAC asshole who's netlisting the best current army list? Are you just going to judge him by how long he's been collecting?

So step carefully before you start labelling other people or their armies.

Regarding cost, it might have been cheaper before, but I've gone from £5 per week pocket money to having a job that pays me a grand a month, so relatively my hobby expenditure has stayed about the same. ;)
 

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Eh, I bought my first Valkyrie with my Christmas and birthday money after getting IA3 for Christmas.

Try playing a game while trying to work out the fuck ups of 3rd edition flyer rules, jesus. Then go into 4th, then the 5th edition (when Elysians not only got some updated rules, but Flyers were made into fast skimmers, alongside an updated IG Codex which essentially made Flyers autowins until people realised "actually no" this is how we beat them"), followed by 6th edition where I was utterly broken to use them (despite Guard being a mid-tier army at best, and Elysians a low tier army that lacked the specific counters in enough numbers).



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I own both the 4th and 5th ed BRB if that helps. Perhaps we at Heresy could even compile a couple of Heresy Online rule compendiums that people could download, so even instead of just providing scenarios and stuff fro people to play,l we could even update them our selves or provide the original scenario with a set of recommended ideas that people could use as guide lines to play them with 6th ed rule set. I don't know if anyone on Heresy has access to the old second edition mission cards either, even though they weren't complete scenarios in them selves, they could be adapted to be used as either additional or replacement secondary objectives, so instead of playing with the 'first blood' rule in 6th, it could be replaced with a modified and updated version of 'high ground' from 2nd where you get points for managing to get your heavy weapons deployed on top of hills or other raised terrain features by the end of the game.
 
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