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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
With all the detachments, formations, "decurion" and "gladius" style shit, it seems there is no sense at all in taking a simple old CAD. If you take a CAD you basically have a disadvantage...
So, my idea is to make CAD viable again, by adding some rules.

First of all, we should be able to SELECT our own command trait.

Then, every 2 OBJECTIVE SECURED troop you get, another non-character, non-vehicle unit gets OB. SEC.
(eg. i take 3 units of chaos marines, and another unit of whatever, chosen, havocs etc. has OB. SEC.)
This would give some edge to CADs in objective games.

Last but not least, CAD could give +1 to Steal the initiative roll (cumulative with other bonuses)

Summing up:

Combined Arms Detachment Special Rules

WELL HONED TACTICS
If your warlord is from this Detachment, you may choose its Warlord Trait from BRB tables or from his own Codex tables, instead of rolling it.

BAND OF BROTHERS
All of your Troop choices and their dedicated transports have Objective Secured.
For every two Troops you have in this Detachment, you may select another unit from the same Detachment: this unit get Objective Secured as well. This unit cannot be a vehicle, an Hq choice or a Monstruous creature. (Thanks to @MidnightSun for the input)

DANGEROUSLY CUNNING
If your Warlord is part of this detachment, you can add +1 to your Seize the initiative roll, stacking with other bonuses

What do you think?
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Master of Deception all DAY, son!
Yeah, me too! Not enough forced to take Huron to infiltrate somo poor sod.
Gonna have some playtest with this.
 

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Rattlehead
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Disagree. Objective Secured is still solid, and some of the combi-detachments just aren't that good - the Space Marine one in particular is really, really limiting and other than Battle Company + min 10th Company, I don't think you're going to see it much at all. Choosing any Warlord Trait is extremely strong as a Command Benefit, getting +1 to Seize (in addition to your Trait if applicable), and being able to make a Wraithknight or something Objective Secured is bullshit.

Would withhold total condemnation until playtesting though, of course :victory:
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 · (Edited)
being able to make a Wraithknight or something Objective Secured is bullshit.
This slipped past my sight! Absolutely agree. Going to fix the first post.

Objective Secured is still solid, and some of the combi-detachments just aren't that good
Considering the trend of Necrons with extra survivability, space marines with extra models etc... Objective secured alone is not strong enough imo. This is because Obsec troops will still be, well, troops. And troops are the blandest things in every codex. If you could choose which unit gets OBSEC would that be troops? Hell no. Troops are a tax to unlock some bonuses, and those bonuses might as well be worthy. Considering that you can make an army out of formations with a bazillion special rules, will your CAD special rules be so useful? I think not, as the rules stand.

Hence my take at the issue. Honestly the CAD has being used only to be abused by cherrypicking units from this and that codex, mixing units and armies in an unbound style of existance, but i've never seen recently a CAD used "as it should" against a formation, win due to objective secured or, wooh, rerolling warlord trait.

At the end my point is:
so many formations, so many decurion style detachments, so many special rules and armywide bonuses. If you take Objective secured and reroll on warlord trait, does it compare to (an example) Reclamation Legion specials?

Move through cover
Relentless
Re-roll reanimation protocols of a 1 within 12 inches of the overlord

or even Daemonkin blood thite and mini-formations each with his own special rules?

My answer is: Objective secured does not compare to Formation-based detachment specials.
Still...gonna need to playtest!
 

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Rattlehead
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But the Battle Company also has Objective Secured, which is what makes it so good - if it didn't have OS, I don't think you'd see it even with the free transports because just plonking a load of basic Marines on the table, even with free Rhinos, just isn't a very good plan at all.

The Decurion has an insanely good benefit, which is why you see it all the time, but the Warhost doesn't, which is why you don't see it around very much. The problem is the inconsistency of the combi-detachments, not with the concept of them vs CAD (as it is, I would rank Warhost, Lion's Blade and Gladius below a Combined Arms detachment in a lot of cases, with Decurion certainly above and Slaughtercult above because Daemonkin are pretty fucking terrible at the objective secured game anyway).
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
But the Battle Company also has Objective Secured, which is what makes it so good - if it didn't have OS, I don't think you'd see it even with the free transports because just plonking a load of basic Marines on the table, even with free Rhinos, just isn't a very good plan at all.
Exactly, that's my point. Sorry if i couldn't make it up correctly (pot does it).
The fact that you get the same bonuses of a CAD and then some more, is just ridiculous. A CAD should have its own benefits and not just be "warhammer for poor guys who can't buy a zillion models".

About the second half of your post i agree: you don't see much of the formations lacking Obsec, but the real reason is that 1) you will end up facing another uberformation with obsec built in and 2)the unit composition are not comparable to other formations.
Even a Lion's Blade, however can trump a simple CAD by sheer force of rules and different building requisite.
 

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Rattlehead
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But the main benefit of a CAD is being able to take whatever units you want, which no formation has yet done. Name a combi-detachment that you can make purely out of good models that you want to bring and work together. I think the nearest you can get is Necrons, but even then bringing a bunch of Warriors plus some Immortals too is a bit weird. You want Annihilation Barges? Hope you've got 170pts free for a Doomsday Ark. You want a Tomb Spyder? Gotta get some Scarabs and Wraiths too, even if you wanted the Spyder because you needed something to repair your shooting mech list vehicles. Other formations can be even worse - Daemonkin being forced into Possessed and the Gladius in general being big ones.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Mmh i can see your point. Don't you think, however that HAVING to take 2 troops minimum is a tax nonetheless? Daemonkin pay a possessed tax, while a CSM CAD army pay a cultists tax. Imo it's kinda the same
 

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Rattlehead
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Some armies like CSM and Daemonkin are shitty examples, because their troops are crap even with Objective Secured, but for something like Eldar, you might want to bring 6x 3 Scatterbikes and then be able to bring just one Crimson Hunter, or a single squad of Wraithguard to go in an Allied Raider with WWP or something.

It also depends a lot on the strength of the combi-detachment - Necrons make a pretty great Combined Arms due to the strength of Warriors and Immortals and how well the Codex can work around a core of them (giving buffs etc.), but since Everliving is a fucking amazing bonus you don't tend to see Necron CADs very often.
 
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