Should the Emperor have taken command?

4910 Views 31 Replies 12 Participants Last post by Bakunin, Jun 24, 2010

Thorin Hubertson

Discussion Starter · Jun 20, 2010

Let's see...
The Great Crusade is in its 203rd year. The Emperor has retired to Terra to work. Day-to-day-running of the Empire is managed by his Lieutenant Malcalor, while the military forces are lead by his most beloved and most capable son and general, the Warmaster Horus.
Now a psionic information reaches the Emperor from Magnus, that Horus has rebelled on Istvaan. Big-E is angry, for this kind of message has been forbidden by him, and the message damaged the psionic defences of the Imperial Palace. So Leman Russ is send to Prospero to attack Magnus.
Unfortunately, the information received was true... So within 6 Months, a large force of all available SM-Legions is mobilized (8 Legions including the Imperial Fists, who will be late and ambushed enroute to Istvaan).

Horus was the most capable of all the Emperor's Generals...
Should the Emperor have expected any kind of a trap?
Should he have taken command himself instead of leaving command to one of the Primarchs?
Did he really expect Horus waiting unprepared for the unavoidable attack by the loyalist forces?

Save

1 - 4 of 32 Posts

Child-of-the-Emperor

· #4 · Jun 20, 2010 (Edited)

Thorin Hubertson said:
Horus was the most capable of all the Emperor's Generals...
Should the Emperor have expected any kind of a trap?
Should he have taken command himself instead of leaving command to one of the Primarchs?
Did he really expect Horus waiting unprepared for the unavoidable attack by the loyalist forces?

As I believe it, the Emperor wasn't the one who ordered the Isstvan V assault on Horus. Rogal Dorn was. The Emperor (according to the Collected Visions) was entirely pre-occupied on the Golden Throne, taking up the vast majority of his consciousness was the burden of keeping the Imperial Webway sealed, he wasn't really able to get involved in the Heresy at all.

Iraqiel said:
'A Thousand Sons' tells of Magnus' psionic trip to the Emperor's palace, and in that it is revealed that Magnus never had the chance to actually deliver his message.

Actually, Magnus did deliver his warning of Horus' betrayal to the Emperor (A Thousand Sons actually confirms this). But it seems (as stated in the Collected Visions I believe) that the Emperor simply ignored the warning, believing Magnus the one to be corrupted.

Save

Child-of-the-Emperor

· #19 · Jun 21, 2010

gothik said:
and i have to wonder what kind of father ignores the warnings from a son who has been nothing but loyal to him?

I would actually say Magnus was one of the most disloyal Primarchs, if not the most disloyal Primarch during the Great Crusade.

Save

Child-of-the-Emperor

· #24 · Jun 21, 2010

gen.ahab said:
I disagree with you on some point but I do agree that the emperor was an extreme narcissist. He did view them as his children but in the way a narcissist would view and love his children, he loved them but only to a point and once they ceased to be usefull or if they moved against him he would come down on them with all the fury he possessed. The reason that the emperor refused to believe that Horus had turned was that the emperor saw himself in Horus and that his he believed that HIS greatest creation could never fail him, in a sense HE could never fail.

That is plausable, but ultimately its still an assumption. We don't know anything for sure when the Emperor's involved.

gen.ahab said:
He had no reason to station magnus on the throne until he opened to rift.

Yes he did, he planned to station Magnus on the Golden Throne to guide Imperial Forces through the Webway - It was always his intention to have Magnus placed on the Golden Throne, A Thousand Sons directly says this when the Emperor's and Magnus' minds meet. It also states that Magnus became aware of everything the Emperor planned for humanity (him on the Golden Throne being part of it), and he didn't seem furious or betrayed by anything the Emperor was planning, he welcomed his planned stationing on the Golden Throne (even though he knew it would never happen) as a great honour. So if Magnus was aware of everything the Emperor was planning and didn't seem distressed by it at all, we can assume that the Emperor really was acting in the best interest (from one viewpoint at least) of humanity as a species.

Save

Child-of-the-Emperor

· #30 · Jun 23, 2010 (Edited)

Bakunin said:
With this in mind, his accepting of the Emperors plan is, as you say, just one view point. But it is the view point of someone who was always trying to be loyal to the Emperor and also full of remorse for how he percieved he had betrayed the Emperor. He would of, at that point, followed the Emperors plan no matter what it was, believeing he had failed his father and not seeing how the Emperor had in fact used and betrayed him and his brother primarchs.

Indeed. But what I was trying to say was that if the Emperor ultimately planned to ascend himself to godhood, or had some other bleak and selfish plan for humanity, Magnus would have been aware of it in the moment their minds connected. Even given the circumstances of Magnus' warning, I would still presume that his faith and loyalty in the Emperor would have been shaken if this was the case. But it wasn't, he grimly accepted his fate to be administered by the Emperor's Wolves. Thus it can be assumed (by this admittedly weak argument, with no other concrete basis or evidence) that the Emperor wasn't planning to ascend to godhood, or any other selfish goal, what he intended was indeed for the good of the species (from one viewpoint obviously).

Zooey72 said:
Magnus was so dumb that he thought he could make deals with Chaos and come out on the winning side - you can see where that got him.

I could just as easily say: 'The Emperor was so dumb that he thought he could make deals with Chaos and come out on the winning side - you can see where that got him.'

Zooey72 said:
At any rate, my theory is that the emp. knew all of these things were going to happen - including his maiming, so that the galaxy would be set up to worship him the way it does in 40k.

The issue though is that the Emperor's existence has, for the last ten thousand years been one of pure agony and depridation. His consciousness has been shattered, he endures terrible burdens and every thought process and ability is focussed solely on allowing Mankind to endure as a species and stave of the worst depridations of Chaos. Not exactly an existence I would plan for.

See less See more

Save

1 - 4 of 32 Posts

This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.

Top Contributors this Month