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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Bit of an odd one this with a possible rule conlfict involved:
If a vehicle has Its front armour showing and Its side armour completely hidden BUT the shooter Is within Its side ark for shooting but can only draw los to the front armour which AV does he shoot at?
Front or Side? :?
Suppose the rule conflict may Involve the fire arc ruling, but also los Issues whereas you can only shoot what you can see.
Hope the explanation Is sufficient!
 

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i would go for front as it is the only part of the vehicle you can actually draw LOS to.
 

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Executive Nitpicker
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I;d say side and count the vehicle as obscured
 

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Depending on the exact posiition of your model you may have a choice. Either you could shoot at the front armor and take it as a normal shot OR shoot at the side armor but count the vehicle as Hull Down.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Rep points for the first person to provide a watertight answer! :wink:
 

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Porn King!!!
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Ok, this is how it is. To determine what part of the tank you are shooting at draw an x on it from corner to corner. This tells you if you are hitting side or front by continuing those lines out towards the firing unit. Terrain can change this only in one way: if any of the sides are completely blocked by the terrain and are therefore out of LOS. In your example the side armour is COMPLETELY HIDDEN which means that only the front armour is able to be hit. Another example of this is firing at a unit of models that is partially behind cover and out of LOS which would only allow you to hit and wound the models showing. Anything blocked by direct LOS is untargettable, therefore if the side armour of a tank is hidden (not just in terrain as you can see 6" into it) then you cannot target the side and must shoot for the front armour.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Thats exactly how I play It, although a few of the guys from Flame on! strictly follow the X ruling, I'll have a good read of the rule book later on tonight to see what comes up.....
 

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Sitting vehicles alongside terrain so that the Side Armour isn't visible is one of the few tactics available to them.

If an opponent can just move his anti-tank into the Side Arc, shoot at the only thing visible (the Front) yet automatically get the Side Armour.....
Then it is another notch against vehicles, transports in particular.

It wouldn't surprise me though.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
The BGB doesn't seem to come up with a definitive answer as such:

Basically you have the X picture of the Predator which you should follow to determine which AV to shoot at.

BUT

The shooting process:
2) Check line of sight and range: See If the target Is within sight and range of the weaponry of your firing unit

So If the side armour Is hidden and not within LOS or RANGE then I'd say the front armour becomes a valid target.
What say you!
 
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its fairly simple, you cant see it, so either you cant shoot it or you shoot the front. let them take their pick. id probably find a way to prove it, buy my book is gone. otherwise id find you text highlighting it. but its fairly simple, you cant see it you cant shoot it. you can only take casualties from models you can see, so you can only hit something you can see. anyone saying otherwise must really suck at the game if they have to do dumb $4!7 like that.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
It's all about the RAW! :roll:
To be honest I'd stick to my previous post for resolution, I really can't see there being a valid argument against.
Anybody?
 

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Porn King!!!
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If you can't see it, you can't target it, and therefore can't hit it. Front armour only.
 

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You cannot shoot what you cannot see, period (except for guess weapons of course). I had another similar problem come up when I was sort of on the line between a front and side armor of a hammerhead. The front armor of the vehicle was more than half obscured (nearly completely) but the side armor was totally visible to me. My opponent claimed that I had to shoot the front armor and that since I could only see part of the front, he got hull down. Seemed pretty silly that my boyz, even as dumb as they are, would shoot at the front of a vehicle they can hardly see while ignoring the weaker side armor that is totally visible. We settled on me firing on the front armor, but no hull down, though according to RAW he was right. I hate RAW by the way, hate it.
 

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Porn King!!!
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I hate RAW by the way, hate it.
Lol, who doesn't? RAW is all fine and good for tournaments but in friendly games it is one of those phrases that just shouldn't come up.

Back to topic. The way I described it and which was backed up by Champion is how we play it here in my area. If you can't see it, you can hit it unless you have a weapon that specifically says it can (Ordnance and Smart Missles come to mind). If anyone one else tries to say otherwise it is because they are trying to be a beardy ass to hit you where they shouldn't be able to.
 

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The Wraithlord said:
Ok, this is how it is. To determine what part of the tank you are shooting at draw an x on it from corner to corner. This tells you if you are hitting side or front by continuing those lines out towards the firing unit. Terrain can change this only in one way: if any of the sides are completely blocked by the terrain and are therefore out of LOS. In your example the side armour is COMPLETELY HIDDEN which means that only the front armour is able to be hit. Another example of this is firing at a unit of models that is partially behind cover and out of LOS which would only allow you to hit and wound the models showing. Anything blocked by direct LOS is untargettable, therefore if the side armour of a tank is hidden (not just in terrain as you can see 6" into it) then you cannot target the side and must shoot for the front armour.
Have to completely agree, this is bang on the money. The only edition that I make hereto as the definitive position is that since the vehicle is obscured by more than 50% you may get a hull down if you pass the roll.
 

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Odd as it may seem at first you use the armour on the area of the vehicle relative to the shooting model, even if that part of the vehicle is hidden. You are firing at the model, not a particular part of it. 40K does not provide a mechanism any more for hitting/damaging parts of vehicles.

This is entirely realistic to. Armour on vehicles is often sloped or shaped to deflect attacks coming from a particular direction so the same spot may offer more or less protection depending on the angle of attack.

The vehicle can still claim to be "hull down" or obscured though.

I hope that clears it up :)
 

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I'd say the front is a valid target, but can only glance due to the impossible angle.

You can't hit the site because you can't shoot THROUGH terrain, only in to it...if it's on the far side of an obstacle LOS is blocked and the side is untargettable (is that a word?).

I figure it's a reasonable answer that gives vehix a chance (they get screwed anyhow).

I also figure it's a double edged sword: any weapon not on the front of the vehicle can't shoot at them either, so that Pred couldn't fire back at them as they are blocked by LOS.
 
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