Warhammer 40k Forum and Wargaming Forums banner
1 - 17 of 17 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
132 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I know that Doctrines apply to a unit, any officer attached, and any adviser attached. I know that Sharpshooters only applies to a unit with at least one model with BS 3 in it. Well, that means that Stormtroopers or Hardened Vets can't take Sharpshooting, right?

But what if I attach a priest to the unit (a Priest as a BS of 3)? Does that mean that I can "unlock" sharpshooting for my Deep-striking Hardened Veteran Melta team or my Stormtrooper gunline?

I know that it's a ridiculously expensive way to do things (for Guard at least) but at least it gives me a reason to think about using Priests instead of Commies.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,648 Posts
Nope... no model with a BS of 4 can take advantage of the skill, no matter how you try to justify it.

Actually, its pretty lame. :ireful2:

IG win by pure guts and courage. Trickery is a tool of Chaos and shows the taint of heresy. Prepare to be cleansed. :wink:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
132 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Eh, I guess I misread that.

That's kinda easy to do, especially considering that "Infantry Squad" is both a global unit type and an infantry choice in the Codex.
 

·
Jac "Baneblade" O'Bite
Joined
·
8,082 Posts
Easy mistake to make. especially if a) you don't have the IG codex or b) you do and don't play as or against IG often.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,648 Posts
Have you noticed that GW has difficulty 'rephrasing' things....

Usually, their attempts result in 3.5 editions and overhauls that lead to 10x the number of necessary FAQs than they're willing to release.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
954 Posts
A little rephrasing could make the Imperial Guard Codex much easier to understand.

Sorry to say, but due to the way the army in composed, the IG codex has always been one of the more complicated codices to get your head around! Im Dyslexic, and it took me a couple of goes just to make sure.

However if you want a laugh. a Priest, Psyker (honourifica) and Commissar assigned to a command squad all with power/force weapons and close order drill will hit at I5 with re-rolls on the charge! Thats got to be worth a giggle!!

MarzM
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,988 Posts
Actually this rule is defined in the IG codex and does not require a clarification or rewrite. I wouldn't say it was especially clear, but it is there.

The rule says that "Any Guard Infantry model with a BS of 3 may make a single re-roll of a shooting to hit roll of 1." This answers many of the questions above.

The term "Guard Infantry" (GW's caps) is a rule on page 55 of the codex, where a number of specific unit types are named. Hardened Veterans (HVs) are included in the list but stormtroopers are not.

Arguably, you could buy the skill for the HVs if a priest is attached, though I would argue that you couldn't. I think that when you buy the unit it doens't include any guys with BS3, so they can't have the skill. In any case even if you could buy the skill it would apply only to BS 3 guys, so just the priest. Pretty much a complete waste of time then.

Look out for the term "Guard Infantry" in the doctrine descriptions and where it describes specific units instead. I think there is only one doctrine where there is a description fails to meet any of these, which is Die-Hards. Apparently "Any Imperial Guard Infantry unit or Rough Rider squadron may be given this ability...". "Imperial Guard Infantry" is a term that may mean either any infantry from the imperial guard including stuff like storm troopers (which might be intended in this case). Alternatively, it may be a typo that should say Guard Infantry - but die hards isn't really that amazing anyway so people can get around this by not wasting points on it.

Also, as far as I can tell, Chem inhalers are available without restriction.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
15 Posts
AFAIK, all the 'skills and drills' and 'special equipment' doctrines save for close order drill (affects infantry platoons and conscript platoons), and carapace armour (guard infantry and/or rough riders) state they only affect guard infantry, who are defined as well.

I think the points on sharshooters have been pretty-much made by everyone else. The only question I have is whether or not, when writing up an army list, you assign advisors as part of the squad, or attach them at the beginning of the game. Using the former, it could be possible to 'unlock' sharpshooters for certain squads, though most (if not all) candidates wouldn't benefit.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,988 Posts
I don't think it would be practically possible for the priest to "unlock" sharpshooters as you say. It might be theoretically possible if you attach the advisor before buying docrines (which seems unlikely in my opinion) but I can't see how it could help you.

For sharpshooters to work models, not units, need to be Guard Infantry (GI) with BS3. The priest doesn't make units into GI if they weren't already, so doesn't let you buy sharpshooters for ogryns and so on, and he doesn't change their BS.

As with the Hardened Vets it may be possible to buy the skill for units with BS 4 (or 2 or whatever) but it wouldn't allow BS 4 troops to get the reroll. Why would you bother?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
132 Posts
Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Ok, Ok I get it now.

Sharpshooters only works for individual models, there is a difference between the Guard Infantry and Infantry of the Guard, and it only works for a model if and only if it is BS 3.

Now my only question is why bother with priests, then?
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,988 Posts
Well... good question.

I think that it's a shame that the IG characters are all CC based. It would be cool if you could get officers that made them do rifle drills or something like that.

GW seems to struggle when they try and give character upgrades to shooting units. I've always thought it was crazy that the first two "upgrades" for Tau (shas'ui and shas'vre) make them better in CC, not better at shooting and no boost to LD.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
132 Posts
Discussion Starter · #15 ·
I realize now that my original list is invalid as I read "Infantry Squad" to mean Infantry Squad and put the Advisors where they would actually help, in with my Chimera-mounted Ogryn. A priest and a commie would be quite helpful in backing up the only CC specialists in the army, but

I mean an Ogryn Bone'ead, 4 Ogryn, a Commie, and a Priest would be a squad I would be willing to put up against anything in CC. Even if we're talking about 215 points base (not including the additional 80 points for the HQ advisors), which is about the same cost as an infantry platoon, it is worth it. But without the ability to place those same advisors where they could really contribute, why bother? You can't even put them in Hardened Vet Squads, which is the next closest thing to a CC Infantry unit the Imperial Guard has.

I'm happy with flexibility in the guard codex, but some of the controls are just a half a twist too tight to allow the codex to be flexible enough to accurately capture the varied nature that I believe that the game designers intended.
 

·
Inquisitor
Joined
·
963 Posts
Well the problem with that is two fold... first is once 3 of the Ogryns die the remaining 2 get their Toughness reduced to 3 due to majority tougness rules for having 2 humies in with them. Second is if they fail a leadership test the Bonehead gets shot no matter what gear you may have on him. Kinda sucks for him. Thats a 3 wound model down the drain just to pass a LD test.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
132 Posts
Discussion Starter · #17 ·
You do have a point there, but there really aren't that many other effective ways to use those options. Even fielding 1-3 Commies as Independant Characters for an elite choice doesn't look to be fielding them all that effectively.
 
1 - 17 of 17 Posts
Top