Warhammer 40k Forum and Wargaming Forums banner

1 - 20 of 22 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
72 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
does this rule fizzle if the squad is killed?

the rule doesn't state either way and from my interpretation if the squad is removed from play it comes back in the next players turn.

is this "removed from play" only refering to the above paragraph talking about how a player can do this during the start of his turn?

could being removed from play also mean from death in the opposite players turn?

for the point cost i really want to understand this rule. THX
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
795 Posts
If the unit is destroyed, killed off, removed from play whatever the reason the unit has left the board they may return. In other words if the unit is destroyed, if the unit runs off the board, if a unit or model has a special rule that removes them from play, etc etc
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
496 Posts
the way i read it the first time i read it as you have to remove it yourself... which makes it kinda useless XD
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,979 Posts
If the unit is destroyed, killed off, removed from play whatever the reason the unit has left the board they may return. In other words if the unit is destroyed, if the unit runs off the board, if a unit or model has a special rule that removes them from play, etc etc
Unfortunately, that isn't correct.

The unit is removed at the beginning of the owning players turn and can be brought back later. It does not say that they can return if they were killed or routed off the table.

the way i read it the first time i read it as you have to remove it yourself... which makes it kinda useless XD
It is not that bad if that squad of 50 conscripts is down to a small handful or so and making a break for it, just snatch em up and bring the entire squad back on the board. You just have to know when to remove them at the right time.

Don't forget, any IC that were with the unit are lost if they are removed. they do not return.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
5,719 Posts
They are removed from play as casualties and count as destroyed. Either by choosing to remove them or them being killed. Same result.

Whether it is by exercising the option to remove them or if they are actually destroyed, they may return the next turn using this rule.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
496 Posts
well for the total squad of 125 points you can have a squad of 50 conscripts that can never really die o_O (plus 200 for the squad itself)

just make sure you dont have any IC's attached to them :3
 

·
Angryman
Joined
·
4,304 Posts
The thing is conscripts are not meant to live. So you buy this for a unit. And use them to tarpitsomeone for the bulk of the game. When you need them somewhere else and there arent many left. Pull them off and bring them on again where you need them. Makes sense for a meat grinder type of army any way.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,122 Posts
Is that rule useful at all? It seems kind of pointlessly expensive to me...
Objectives? Tryst me killing 50 guardsmen in terrain which can effectivly re-spawn is almost impossible. You have to take them ALL out in 1 turn ot they just re-spawn. I find it's always a good idea to take a Lord Commissar if you take Chenkov as this "aura" keeps the concripts in the battle as if they run you have wasted your points.

You always HAVE to remove them your self top get SITSW. If they flee of the board or are completly killed they can't come back.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,461 Posts
I see lots of opinions, but no back up from the rules. Who has back-up to their claims?

I read it that they may come back regardless of the source of their death. The two sentences are completely seperated. The second half of the rule reads:

"Any unit with this special rule that is removed from play may be brought back into play at the beginning of the controlling player's next turn."

That doesn't specify how they must be removed from play, just that they are.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,851 Posts
As Wolf said, they only need to be removed from play, doesn't specify method.
If I shoot your dude with my dude, and your dude dies, he has been removed from play, simple.

Question, if you remove them from play at the beginning of your turn, do they come back on immediately, or the next turn?
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
5,719 Posts
You remove it from play at the start of your turn and they return on your next turn.

Skoll, I had back up, I just didn't frame it as a quote. The first sentence in my post was rules. :p
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,979 Posts
The only reasoning I have to say they only come back if you voluntarily remove them is any omission of other factors in the rule. That and in the FAQ it only refers to the unit being removed at the beginning of the players turn, not being killed or run off the table.

After reading the rule a few times and checking the FAQ, I would play it either way, killed/routed or voluntarily removed as it really doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things. If a unit is running, it is pretty much done anyway, and if it is killed to a man, well, the person did pay points to return them, so, return them. So anyway it happens, it is all the same cause and effect really.

I do see it as a tactical ploy for a guard army to tie up a unit with those conscripts and at the opportune time remove them and have them shift the focus on the table. Maybe even grab that open objective in the last turn to get the win. Could be used to really make an opponent curse under their breath.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
460 Posts
To be fair, the entry is a bit confusing, in the first paragraph it states that,
"A unit with this special rule can, at that start of a player's turn, be removed from play as casualties if the controlling player wishes, counting as destroyed." It then states that,
"Any unit with this special rule that is removed from play may be brought back into play at the begining of the controlling player's next turn"

It seems to imply that "removed from play" is accomplished only by electing to remove them at the start of the player's turn, however that seems incorrect. I don't know if the rule book clarifies "removed from play". In addition it says that the unit "can" be removed from play which when seen as a whole with the rest of the entry seems to say that removing the unit from play is simply an added perk.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
496 Posts
To be fair, the entry is a bit confusing, in the first paragraph it states that,
"A unit with this special rule can, at that start of a player's turn, be removed from play as casualties if the controlling player wishes, counting as destroyed." It then states that,
"Any unit with this special rule that is removed from play may be brought back into play at the begining of the controlling player's next turn"

It seems to imply that "removed from play" is accomplished only by electing to remove them at the start of the player's turn, however that seems incorrect. I don't know if the rule book clarifies "removed from play". In addition it says that the unit "can" be removed from play which when seen as a whole with the rest of the entry seems to say that removing the unit from play is simply an added perk.
i agree with this guy, the rule is shoddaly written at best implying that a unit must be elected to be removed or it cannot come back, but apon reading it through quite a few more times and taking note of the seperate paragraphs it leans more towards an immortal squad of conscripts that come back every time they die o.o (OMFG! THE CONSCRIPTS ARE NECRONS!?!?!?!)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
165 Posts
i agree with this guy, the rule is shoddaly written at best implying that a unit must be elected to be removed or it cannot come back, but apon reading it through quite a few more times and taking note of the seperate paragraphs it leans more towards an immortal squad of conscripts that come back every time they die o.o
So what? It's 50 conscripts. It walks on their back board edge. It never has a transport or any useful weapons. It can tie up a unit every turn for one turn, but I don't know ANY unit that it won't lose combat to unless it destroys the opposing unit entirely. Just stay away from the objective on the back board edge until turn 5. Problem solved.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
795 Posts
I always figured like Unforgiven you remove them from the board and then use them to contest your objective or another. I mean if you remove them in Turn 5 and have them return in Turn 6 right next to your objective that lets say the enemy has a unit near, bang you just contested it. Game ends and your opponent is denied your objective. Seems pretty sound to me and your opponent would definitely call foul, eventhough it's perfectly legal.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
795 Posts
And why would they call foul?
Foul, cheese, whatever. I've had my run ins with a few opponents who've called foul on something, stormed around, then demanded to read the Codex rule to see if what I did was perfectly legally. When Commissar Yarrick returned in 3rd edition almost every opponent I played went out of their head about the force field rule (which back then was it reduced the S of the opponents attacks by a D6). So some opponent would fire a Lascannon or some crap at him, hit, I would roll a D6 (it came up six more times than many would believe) and I would inform him his S9 hit is now a S3 which would then lead to an understandable yell of the word "Foul!" :ireful2: (mind you not literally)
 
1 - 20 of 22 Posts
Top