Seer Council Help
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The general rule of thumb appears to be something like this:
Farseer with Fortune and maybe Doom, Runes of Witnessing, Runes of Warding
Autarch with Laser Lance/Power Weapon
1-2 Warlocks with Enhance
1-2 Warlocks with Embolden
2-4 Warlocks with Destructor
Add singing spears to taste - remember that you gain a 12" lascannon, but lose an attack in CC.
So minimum size squad is about 6 models, and maximum about 8. Don't expect to field it in anything less than 2000 points though, as the unit is extremely expensive, and eats into other, better, units that are available to you in smaller games (Fire Dragons, Heavy Support choices etc).
The general tactic is one of the following:
- Hunt vehicles, especially with Singing Spears. That many S9 attacks will hurt anything.
- Hunt vulnerable infantry units. By this I mean units that you are going to kill easily by blasting them with 2 or more Heavy Flamer templates and then assaulting. The last thing you want this unit to do is get bogged down.
- Tarpit the enemies even bigger, nastier unit. Best accomplished by smaller Councils, if your opponent likes fielding "Big Squad of Death" tm then putting these guys in front of them with rerollable 3+/4++ saves should hold them up for more or less the entire game. Not the best use for them, however, as they are very expensive, and you don't come across BSoD as often as you used to.
Farseer with Fortune and maybe Doom, Runes of Witnessing, Runes of Warding
Autarch with Laser Lance/Power Weapon
1-2 Warlocks with Enhance
1-2 Warlocks with Embolden
2-4 Warlocks with Destructor
Add singing spears to taste - remember that you gain a 12" lascannon, but lose an attack in CC.
So minimum size squad is about 6 models, and maximum about 8. Don't expect to field it in anything less than 2000 points though, as the unit is extremely expensive, and eats into other, better, units that are available to you in smaller games (Fire Dragons, Heavy Support choices etc).
The general tactic is one of the following:
- Hunt vehicles, especially with Singing Spears. That many S9 attacks will hurt anything.
- Hunt vulnerable infantry units. By this I mean units that you are going to kill easily by blasting them with 2 or more Heavy Flamer templates and then assaulting. The last thing you want this unit to do is get bogged down.
- Tarpit the enemies even bigger, nastier unit. Best accomplished by smaller Councils, if your opponent likes fielding "Big Squad of Death" tm then putting these guys in front of them with rerollable 3+/4++ saves should hold them up for more or less the entire game. Not the best use for them, however, as they are very expensive, and you don't come across BSoD as often as you used to.
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Defo embolden it is 5points cheaper than taking Runes of witnessing, and does pretty much the same job, also consider destructor to help with hordes and crowd control. As for the size i would recommend taking about 1 farseer, 6 warlocks and give them all singing spears to pop open armour from a distance.
Hope that helps, happy gaming.
Hope that helps, happy gaming.
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7,314 Posts
I never really fancy the Aurtach in that unit. It means eating up your other HQ slot and you're looking at 110 points minimum for a S3 power weapon which is weak or 120 points for a S6 power weapon but only if you charge and only for the first round. I tend to run
Farseer
- Doom
- Fortune
- Spirt Stones
- Jetbike
- Runes of Warding
5 Warlocks
- Jetbikes
- Embolden
- Enhance
- 2 Destructor
that comes in at 440 points which is pretty pricey for something not very killy. If I have loose points I might throw a spear or two in there. They are death to any vehicles they come across, without spears you have 18 S9 attacks on the charge which is nice. They are great against select targets Monstrous Creatures are also a good target just because of the number of wounds they can throw on it with 2+ wounding weapons.
They get bogged down very easily against anything with armour, a Tactical Squad can hold them up for a few turns.
Aramoro
Farseer
- Doom
- Fortune
- Spirt Stones
- Jetbike
- Runes of Warding
5 Warlocks
- Jetbikes
- Embolden
- Enhance
- 2 Destructor
that comes in at 440 points which is pretty pricey for something not very killy. If I have loose points I might throw a spear or two in there. They are death to any vehicles they come across, without spears you have 18 S9 attacks on the charge which is nice. They are great against select targets Monstrous Creatures are also a good target just because of the number of wounds they can throw on it with 2+ wounding weapons.
They get bogged down very easily against anything with armour, a Tactical Squad can hold them up for a few turns.
Aramoro
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49 Posts
10 Warlocks, 1 with enhance, 1 with embolden and jetbikes clock in at 470 pts.
Add your 185 point Farseer with Fortune, Spirit Stones, Doom, Runes of Witnessing (you really really don't want to fail fortune) and Runes of Warding.
Then go off and cause 18 wounds on the charge versus Ork Boyz, or 7 wounds versus Tacticals. On average. After saves. Before No Retreat.
You can fit two of these units (one without the Runes of Warding) in at 1750 pts, and have some points left over for some claiming jetbike squads, and some avengers in a holo-Falcon. Charge as many units as possible, for example it's fully feasible to wipe out 4 full Ork mobs in one close combat-phase, if your opponent tries to swamp you. You'll lose about 11-12 warlocks going into 120 ork sluggas , but you'll still win combat with about 25-26, since you'll strike first.
It's a quite horrifically powerful unit. You don't need destructors or singing spears, just bury the opponent under the sheer weight of attacks.
Add your 185 point Farseer with Fortune, Spirit Stones, Doom, Runes of Witnessing (you really really don't want to fail fortune) and Runes of Warding.
Then go off and cause 18 wounds on the charge versus Ork Boyz, or 7 wounds versus Tacticals. On average. After saves. Before No Retreat.
You can fit two of these units (one without the Runes of Warding) in at 1750 pts, and have some points left over for some claiming jetbike squads, and some avengers in a holo-Falcon. Charge as many units as possible, for example it's fully feasible to wipe out 4 full Ork mobs in one close combat-phase, if your opponent tries to swamp you. You'll lose about 11-12 warlocks going into 120 ork sluggas , but you'll still win combat with about 25-26, since you'll strike first.
It's a quite horrifically powerful unit. You don't need destructors or singing spears, just bury the opponent under the sheer weight of attacks.
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I personly i have never liked the Seer Conciel for 2 reasons.
1 - I play Ilydan and they don't exactly have that many warlocks
2 - They can die easily and for that many points it's a hard blow.
I suggest if you want to take them then take one of the 3 types.
Anti-tank
These are usually 6-8 warlocks all armed with Spears as well as Enbolden and Enhance. Destructor can also be take to thin infantry. Becuas eof the 4++ save that everyone has Conceal is pointless. A farseer is also stadard and often with Guide, Runes of Warding, Stones and Fortune in any combination. Fotune makes there 3+ armoure save(or 4++) even better and makes them harder to remove. "You have to spend pooitns to save points". Guide is oftne to make sure to hit your target but if anythign can be skiped if you are short on points(along with stones)
Weaking Hunters
They are somewhat harder to use as you need to chose what your attackign carfully. they won't want to fight soemthign as strong as Termintors and nothing as numberless as termaguants however things like small guard units(15 or less), Tau, Marien combat squads etc they can destroy in seconds. Also soncider monsters too.
They normally have agian 6-8 warlocks with Enbolden, Enhance and this time Destuctor is a must however Spears arn't needed at all. The farseer can have Fortune agian as standard.
Crack Suiside Squad
My format that is named after the squad form Monty Pyton. It consits of just 3 Warlocks as cheap as they can be plus singing spears. They will turbo boost almost eveywhere and tank hunt. Your opponent has to pay attention to them as 3 singing spears and then 6 mor eon the charge will destroy any tank should they get close. The key is speede and make use of cover where you can.
You never expect them to live(hence the name) but it allows your army to advance and aid and they should pop atleast 1 tank befor ethey go and hopfuly somethign like a Leman Russ so pay there points back in a second.
1 - I play Ilydan and they don't exactly have that many warlocks
2 - They can die easily and for that many points it's a hard blow.
I suggest if you want to take them then take one of the 3 types.
Anti-tank
These are usually 6-8 warlocks all armed with Spears as well as Enbolden and Enhance. Destructor can also be take to thin infantry. Becuas eof the 4++ save that everyone has Conceal is pointless. A farseer is also stadard and often with Guide, Runes of Warding, Stones and Fortune in any combination. Fotune makes there 3+ armoure save(or 4++) even better and makes them harder to remove. "You have to spend pooitns to save points". Guide is oftne to make sure to hit your target but if anythign can be skiped if you are short on points(along with stones)
Weaking Hunters
They are somewhat harder to use as you need to chose what your attackign carfully. they won't want to fight soemthign as strong as Termintors and nothing as numberless as termaguants however things like small guard units(15 or less), Tau, Marien combat squads etc they can destroy in seconds. Also soncider monsters too.
They normally have agian 6-8 warlocks with Enbolden, Enhance and this time Destuctor is a must however Spears arn't needed at all. The farseer can have Fortune agian as standard.
Crack Suiside Squad
My format that is named after the squad form Monty Pyton. It consits of just 3 Warlocks as cheap as they can be plus singing spears. They will turbo boost almost eveywhere and tank hunt. Your opponent has to pay attention to them as 3 singing spears and then 6 mor eon the charge will destroy any tank should they get close. The key is speede and make use of cover where you can.
You never expect them to live(hence the name) but it allows your army to advance and aid and they should pop atleast 1 tank befor ethey go and hopfuly somethign like a Leman Russ so pay there points back in a second.
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You can fit 2 655 point units into a 1750 army? That's a very high risk strategy considering how they can get bogged down.
Aramoro
Thanks for the help guys, much appreciated. Would it also be worth taking warlocks in guardian jetbike squads? Il be running an Ulthwe themed army, so lots of guardians and seers will be the plan. How do seer councils on foot fair in games?
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You never want a seer council on foot... you should either have them on bikes or in a transport with eldrad. they need the safety of a tank or a 3+ armour save to keep them alive fairly long. a 4+ inv. (fortuned or not) will fail.
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They're pretty much as mobile a unit as they come, and will buzzaw through almost anything. What will bog them down? I mean, even assault termies charging (albeit without chaplain) will have a hard time winning convincingly.
The seer council is as sturdy and choppy as Nob Bikers. Heck, if you Doom and then fire your catapults at a T4 unit you'll average 14 wounds.
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Aramoro recently wrote a decent non-jetbike Seer Council list over in the "Army List" section of the forums, if you want to check it out.
I have had good experiences with a 6 Man Seer council in a Falcon backed up by Avengers/Banshees (much cheaper and about as effective).
I'm never really convinced that a Warlock in jetbike squads is a good idea... he just seems like a very very expensive unit champion that you only buy in order to get Embolden. I'd say in order to be worth it, the jetbike squad should be 6 men strong with 2 cannons, because then you have a reason to want them to stick around.
You may also want to rethink the "Lots of Guardians" idea... they do suck cheesy goat balls.
I have had good experiences with a 6 Man Seer council in a Falcon backed up by Avengers/Banshees (much cheaper and about as effective).
I'm never really convinced that a Warlock in jetbike squads is a good idea... he just seems like a very very expensive unit champion that you only buy in order to get Embolden. I'd say in order to be worth it, the jetbike squad should be 6 men strong with 2 cannons, because then you have a reason to want them to stick around.
You may also want to rethink the "Lots of Guardians" idea... they do suck cheesy goat balls.
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Assualt Termies wont kill your monster unit, but then again you wont kill them either. You will eventually grind the termies down after a few turns but if your opponent rolls up with a Libby with his Physic Hood and Null Zone you're going to have a very bad day. I'm not saying it won't work it's just very high risk.
Aramoro
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Really Cheesy!You may also want to rethink the "Lots of Guardians" idea... they do suck cheesy goat balls.
But yeah, unless you have 150+ points invested into a Guardian Jetbike squad, you probably won't need a Warlock to keep them around too much.
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I agree, Assault termies is a really bad matchup. Those and Nob Bikers can actually go toe to toe with the council, and if there's an Active Null Zone without fortune, you're basically toast.
That said, that's basically the only bad matchup for the council, and you're still fast enough to avoid them if you really want. I really don't think it is a big risk, since they're so incredibly resilient it's hard to get points from them, and the rest of your army is small/resilient troops which are easy to hide (3x3 jetbikes hugging terrain/turboboosting away from danger and 5 avengers in a holo-falcon).
Not a very forgiving army if you slip up though, but if you don't, it really isn't hard to win with it.
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Jetlock councils are on the downward spiral thanks to the increase in psychic defenses. losing fortune makes the squad not worth its point cost. That being said, they can still work but you need to be able to double cast fortune or have two units. I'm leaning towards 2 seers in one Squad currently as it frees up more space in the rest of your army. Whilst this losings you some flexibility and no Autarch, the unit is more reliable in today's psychic defenses world. This can be done in two ways, 2 seerson bikes or seer on bike + Eldrad running close support. The 2nd option is riskier but more flexible (i.e. against non-psy defense armies).
In terms of Warlock support, 6 is the minimum I find w/at least one Enhance and Embolden and the rest with Destructor. Don't bother w/spears, they may enhance wound allocation and damage at range but they become much more easily tarpitted.
In terms of Warlock support, 6 is the minimum I find w/at least one Enhance and Embolden and the rest with Destructor. Don't bother w/spears, they may enhance wound allocation and damage at range but they become much more easily tarpitted.
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There might be a increase in psychic attacks such as null zones but Eldar are the only guys capable of avoiding perils of the warp attacks. Stupid humans!
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They really don't care about Perils. Your 400+ pt unit which relies on a re-rollable 3+/4++ is suddenly sitting at 3+/4++...torrent is a lot more effective against them now and all those points are essentially wasted. The increase Eldar worry about is psychic defense considering they have the best psychic defense of their own in RoWard. Null Zone is very annoying but since the majority of current psykers are W2 w/o invuls, Perils freaks them out. Add in Jetlocks have a 3+ and Null Zone isn't omg game over like it is to foot councils (though it does cry when plasma hits).
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I thought that ghosthelms came with a standard farseer
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So warlocks not on jetbikes abosultely HAVE to have a transport? Fortuned and on foot just doesn't cut it?
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