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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
My strategy is to charge turn 2 with nearly my entire army, while using Be'lakor to buff survivability. Be'lakor will be focusing on casting shrouded on the first turn (3 guaranteed dice for shrouded with random dice on invis). With a 6 inch shrouded bubble in place i'll turbo boots my screamers 5 inches ahead of Be'lakor giving them a 2+ rerollable cover save. My bloodcrushers and bloodthirster (not flying) will also stay close to Be'lakor for the shrouded bonus. This gives my bloodthirster a +2 cover after he jinks and the bloodcrushers will have 3+ b/c my opponent will have to shoot through the screamers. I'm hoping this shrouded trick keeps my hard hitting units relatively unscathed for the turn 2 charge that breaks my opponents line and spirit. My Warboss/Mega Nobz in the trukk, Khorne Dogs, and Soul grinder are also moving forward as fast as possible for the turn 2 charge. Warboss will use the Lucky Stixx to tank wounds for the squad.

The only units that wont be running forward are my Nurglings, Plague bearers, and Ork Boyz. These squads are for objective camping and will spend the game going to ground after they grab an objective.

Total 1998pts

HQ(640)
Be'lakor (warlord) = 350pts
Bloodthirster + 2x Greater Rewards = 290pts

Elite(225)
5x Bloodcrushers = 225pts

Troops(135)
10x Plague Bearers = 90pts
3x Nurglings = 45pts

Fast Attack(438)
9x Khorne Dogs = 144pts
9x Khorne Dogs = 144pts
6x screamers = 150pts

Heavy Support(170)
1x Soulgrinder + Baleful Torrent + Daemon of Slaanesh = 170

Ork Allies(390)

HQ(130)
1x Warboss W/ Mega Armor + Lucky Stixx + Cybork body = 130pts

Elites(200)
4x Mega Nobz + 2x Kombi Skorchas + Trukk = 200pts

Troops(60)
10x Ork Boyz = 60pts
 

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Given how few troops you actually have, I would recommend dropping them and just going unbound. Objective secured only benefits troops, which as mentioned there are only two of.

secondly, why ork allys? you picked up ten ork boyz with choppas I assume, but a pack of Demonettes can do the same job better (thanks to rending and a invul save rather than a weak armor). the mega armor is a different story, yes you don't have any native 2+ armor, but i'm not sure if five dudez in a trukk is an effective use of the points.

lastly you don't really have a way to burst tanks at range, the harvester cannon is good but with he flame torrent I assume you want to take on infantry with it. plus you can't hurt AV14 at all. So I would recommend you get some heralds of tzeentch on disks to ride with the screamers. That way you can use Bolt or infernal gate (both strength d6+4 so a minimum of strength five) to burst tanks. on a 4+ you have a chance of getting a land raider, and with two spells each that sounds decent odds of getting a hull point or two off, plus transport you can definitely get. plus the extra warp charges can help Be'lakor get his spells off.

Or you could get the now not useless burning chariot to help, 1-3 strength nine lascannons and a built in flame tourent that can cook space marines, plus with everything else rushing toward him he may not even shoot at it in favor of all the dogs and mantas running at him

hope that helps mate
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Thanks for the feedback. It was my understanding that my allied troops would also be battle forged. Does it change since they are desperate allies or something, or are all ally troops excluded from battle forged benefits?

I think the list has lots that can deal with av 14, Soulgrinder or Boss/w nobz. defiantly no high str shooting though

I'm not sure if i buy into the idea of daemons shooting. Seems like allying in some IG or CSM would be the way to cover that. all the daemon shooting options are so squishy, av 10 2 hp... I think any competitive 40k player would be sure to shoot at it just b/c its so easy to wreck. 12 str 4 shots is statistically what you need.

If i do go with ork allies, do you think it would be worth allying in a big mek w/ kustom force field and 5 Kannons w/ max grotz?(that's the new ork artillery right?)? That's a veritable downpour of blast templates and i never have a problem with my opponents getting to my backfield. Or should spring for the Battlewagon for the Boss/Mega Nobz? That thing would make sure they all get there. Or would your recommend IG or CMS? I've also ran a Knight ally and done pretty well!
 

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Thanks for the feedback. It was my understanding that my allied troops would also be battle forged. Does it change since they are desperate allies or something, or are all ally troops excluded from battle forged benefits?
Well, yes ally sare battle forged as well but with only three troop choice your not gunning to win a objective game your aiming to just up and murder the other guy as fast as possible :ireful2: in which case I think the troops are lead weights and you should just grab more killing power.

I think the list has lots that can deal with av 14, Soulgrinder or Boss/w nobz. defiantly no high str shooting though

I'm not sure if i buy into the idea of daemons shooting. Seems like allying in some IG or CSM would be the way to cover that. all the daemon shooting options are so squishy, av 10 2 hp... I think any competitive 40k player would be sure to shoot at it just b/c its so easy to wreck. 12 str 4 shots is statistically what you need.
I meant at range, leaveing your only AV 14 option to melee just seems like asking for trouble since you have to get up close to them (getting shot the whole way), and its hardly a way to make land raiders stop being a threat quickly. Daemon shooting is good, but it's mostly mind bullets, and warp flaming mind bullets.


If i do go with ork allies, do you think it would be worth allying in a big mek w/ kustom force field and 5 Kannons w/ max grotz?(that's the new ork artillery right?)? That's a veritable downpour of blast templates and i never have a problem with my opponents getting to my backfield. Or should spring for the Battlewagon for the Boss/Mega Nobz? That thing would make sure they all get there. Or would your recommend IG or CMS? I've also ran a Knight ally and done pretty well!
Humm, you may have something there, Kannon teams with strength 8 can dent land raiders and lemans at range and with a full battery you will likely do something. Zap guns or Smasha Kannons may be a better option as they have better AP and can deal with wraith knights and riptides and the like, but there stats are exactly the same Bolt or infernal gate (D6+4 Ap 2 or 1). On the other hand If your gonna go with mega nobz I would think that a battle wagon would be the way to go, AV14 on the front is a excellent bullet, or lascannon sponge and can get them form point A to B better then the AV 10 all round trukk.

The guard can also give you a big staic base in your back field the enemy will have to deal with as your rush em (via SPG's or heavy weapon teams), chaos don't really give you anything you can't do already, Knight can give you some big anti terminator blasts that can screw up land raiders.

However: we have been ignoring a bit of a gorilla in the room, the warp storm table. With Daemons as your primary detachment and with no instruments your likely kill some of your own ally's at some point in the game. The exception are chaos marine ally as they are unaffected by the table. just something to keep in mind I suppose.
 

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Arg, lost a couple long posts to phone-typing fumble-fingers. I played 2 games earlier today along precisely this idea and was moderately please with the execution, though running against an Astra Militarum list able to throw 6 "ignore cover" orders was... a downer. Beat him, though, thanks to Fateweaver unleashing a choice Sunburst that killed almost as much as his hefty points cost in tightly packed Guard squads. Lost the next game because of a few errors and because I couldn't keep my units tarpitting the enemy Knight with invisibility on them.

Still, lots of thoughts and play testing opinions coming your way tomorrow on this, once I get to a computer and can type more easily.
 

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First off, I like the bubble concept for the list. Like I said, I just ran some lists with that very concept in mind (one melee bubble list, one defensive-buff-spamming Daemon Engine gunline).

Total 1998pts

HQ(640)
Be'lakor (warlord) = 350pts
Bloodthirster + 2x Greater Rewards = 290pts

All very well and good, and I'm a big fan of giving the Bloodthirster the Blade of Blood for another Specialist Weapon bonus attack, to say nothing of Rampage (on the bearer, while he attacks with his Axe of Khorne), but I'd still rather take a Lord of Change here: almost as good a combat statline, but also gives you 2 more divination/malefic powers to roll on, to say nothing of 2 more warp charge to fuel Be'lakor's invisibility and shrouding, in addition to a Lesser Reward that can be traded in to make all your attacks S8. And that's not counting the fact that he rerolls 1s, so he upgrades that cover from a 2+ to a rerollable 2+!

Elite(225)
5x Bloodcrushers = 225pts

Bloodcrushers... I'm honestly not a fan of. Yeah, you've done a good job here buffing them defensively, but they have a lack of a good save, a high cost, and that all-important vulnerability to S8 going against them. I'd honestly rather have 14 Flesh Hounds for about the same cost, but with twice as many T4 wounds that are harder to ID in big chunks--no AP3, sure, but they have Scout and the like too... still, if you like the models and are committed to fielding them, I'd just note that they're the top priorities for Invisibility then, I'd wager.

Troops(135)
10x Plague Bearers = 90pts
3x Nurglings = 45pts

These are fine for hiding backfield, but I'd recommend squads of 11 Horrors instead. They'll still be ignored with all your up-field things for enemies to shoot at, but each 11 Horrors will generate 2 more Warp Charge to fuel Be'lakor in the psychic phase, plus gets a roll on the summoning table so might be throwing, say, Cursed Earth to buff your survive-ability. You could keep the cheap Nurglings, of course, and just go one Horror squad, but in this list, I think Horrors trump Plaguebearers in terms of what they bring to the table (and give you good reason to go Battle-Forged, rather than just serve the excuse of scoring units).

Fast Attack(438)
9x Khorne Dogs = 144pts
9x Khorne Dogs = 144pts
6x screamers = 150pts

I like this. I'd like about 7 more Hounds spread between each Dog quad, dropping the Bloodcrushers, mind, but if you're committed to the 'Crushers, I would suggest this: perhaps combine the two Hound squads? As it stands, a focused enemy could burst down one of these squads of 9 pretty easily in their shooting phase, netting themselves First Blood happily. I'd rather have one big block of Hounds that can soak up more firepower (and are also a better target for, say, Invisibility than a squad of 9).

Heavy Support(170)
1x Soulgrinder + Baleful Torrent + Daemon of Slaanesh = 170

Excellent. I hope your first targets with this guy are those fellows who can give Ignores Cover: Tau pathfinders, Company Command Squads, etc... I almost want to field another of these guys with Phlegm or Warp Gaze, too.

Ork Allies(390)

I have to kind of agree with @dragonkingofthestars that these guys don't add much to your list apart from one more assaulty unit and one more backfield scoring unit. They'll be hit by the Warp Storm as often as your opponents, and I'd rather have, say, CSM allied in with Be'lakor as their HQ to let you take some Heralds in your other HQ slot (a Tzeentch one with Grimoire in Horrors, a Khornate one on a Juggernaut in the Flesh Hounds with a Greater Etherblade) and maybe a Heldrake or something.

HQ(130)
1x Warboss W/ Mega Armor + Lucky Stixx + Cybork body = 130pts

Elites(200)
4x Mega Nobz + 2x Kombi Skorchas + Trukk = 200pts

Troops(60)
10x Ork Boyz = 60pts
The lists I ran used the Be'lakor in an allied CSM detachment, and rather than taking a Lord of Change, I took Fateweaver. Costly and not too effective in combat, I know, but he also gets the 2+ rerollable cover if he's in the bubble, he gives me a reroll on that Grimoire-Herald I mentioned (or if Grimoire is good, somewhere else), he lets me reroll Warp Storm, he can cast some serious AP2 Tzeentchi powers, Prescience, generates 4 warp charge... I found him to be damned worth it in those two games. Grimoire+invisibility+rerollable 2+ cover bubble (for Tzeentchi daemons that can jink) is a lot of protection to be throwing around, and that's assuming the Horrors and Herald don't manage to roll a Cursed Earth.

I also brought a Burning Chariot of Tzeentch, whose rider can actually do stuff in 7e, and it was my usual Grimoire target, and it put out an incredible amount of damage while soaking up a shocking amount of firepower for an AV 10 3HP vehicle... a 3++ rerolling 1s is great, and both Pink Fire and Blue Fire are also fantastic, giving it a whole lot of flexibility. It is cheap as dirt, fast, puts out a bunch of damage against almost an target you can care to name, and its only downside is that it needs to be babysat with one of your precious defensive buffs so it doesn't shatter like glass.
 
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