[Cadian81st]

Pretty sure this is the right place to put this, here goes.

So, I'm starting a guard army that is based on the Ultramar Defense Force. (For those who don't know, the Ultramarines rule over not just one planet, but an entire system, and that system has a unified PDF like force that is under the direct command of the Lord of Macragge (currently Marneus Calgar). Basically the Ultramarine's own personal army.) This force is often described as being better equipped and trained than most guard regiments.

So at first I was thinking that, despite them granting rules bonuses similar to how the UDF would probably behave on the battlefield, commissars don't really have a place in an army like that, as they reflect Imperial oversight. Then I thought, hey, it's plausible that, to a mere mortal, an ultramarine scout would reflect a similar principle.

So, my incredibly long winded question is: Would you (from a gaming standpoint) be all right with an army like that? That used Space Marine Scout models as commissars, so long as they were properly identified as such to you before the match? Bear in mind this army is being constructed strictly for casual gaming, and not at all for hardcore or tournament play.

 

[wombat_tree]

That would be perfectly all right with me. In fact if you did this I would probably compliment you on your creativity!

 

[Loki1416]

For home, casual games, I'd pretty much let anything go as long as I was told before hand. Rule changes like that add flavor to the game and keep it interesting. Long as it isnt some crazy never gonna be possible rule "No, your Guardsman does NOT have 25strength". LoL

 

[Dave T Hobbit]

So, my incredibly long winded question is: Would you (from a gaming standpoint) be all right with an army like that? That used Space Marine Scout models as commissars, so long as they were properly identified as such to you before the match? Bear in mind this army is being constructed strictly for casual gaming, and not at all for hardcore or tournament play.

Are you talking about using SM Scout model to "count as" Commissars, or a complete replacement, i.e. using SM Scout profile instead of Commissar profile?

I would not have a problem with either; however, replacing Commissar rules with Scouts is almost certainly going to have balance issues.

 

[cranvill]

Fluff wise i wouldnt of thort that any space marine scouts would be with a PDF or Guard unit as they are far too important an asset. I think they would still have commisars but they probley wouldnt bequite so nasty. But hay 40k is a big place so who is to say what might happen give it ago buddy.

As for useing the rules for scouts in place of commisars id think id rather use commisars rules with there higher LD and such. but yer id let you play them.

 

[Cadian81st]

Are you talking about using SM Scout model to "count as" Commissars, or a complete replacement, i.e. using SM Scout profile instead of Commissar profile?.

Sorry, guess I wasn't very clear; I'm talking about using SM scouts models to "count as" commissar models. I'm thinking along the lines of US Army Rangers or British SAS being sent to a foreign country to train their military. They don't really participate directly in the fight, but when they do, the guys they're training will most definitely straighten up and fly right.

 

[Dave T Hobbit]

...along the lines of US Army Rangers or British SAS being sent to a foreign country to train their military.

Good analogy.

I would enjoy facing such a characterful force.

 

[Cadian81st]

Kool. I'll do that then! Thanks for the help guys. +rep for all of you!

 

[cranvill]

cheers for the rep an yer i think that would look sweet maybe post some pics when you do

 

[Cadian81st]

I will, once I get a little farther (and find my camera :laughI'm going to start a project log.

 

[SonofVulkan]

Great idea. Thinking "out of the box" can make a regular army into a very characterful and fun to play with/against army.

Sergeant Telion would make a great commissar model, can't see any Imperial Guardsmen arguing with him.

 

[Deneris]

Well, they can be Scouts, or they could be Chapter Serfs/Menials that have been specifially trained/augmented to be a connection/liason between the "common" PDF and the Ultramarines; They would have knowledge of tactics and enemy capabilities (Probably from Mem-implants and years of battle), and yet remain closer to "human" than the already-augmented SM Scouts.

 

[Cadian81st]

Sergeant Telion would make a great commissar model, can't see any Imperial Guardsmen arguing with him.

I was thinking of making him my Lord Commissar. I toyed with the idea of using an actual marine as a Lord Commissar, but realized that it would be too annoying to explain that his power armour was just for show every game. It would really be great with the the whole "ranger advisors" theme (9 badasses and 1 super badass leading the 9 badasses) but I think telion will fill that whole equally well.

Well, they can be Scouts, or they could be Chapter Serfs/Menials that have been specifially trained/augmented to be a connection/liason between the "common" PDF and the Ultramarines; They would have knowledge of tactics and enemy capabilities (Probably from Mem-implants and years of battle), and yet remain closer to "human" than the already-augmented SM Scouts.

The only problem I forsee with that is that, when the shit hits the fan, and you've got blood thirsters bearing down on you, would you honestly listen to some servitor that's monotonously warbling at you to stay in the fight? Probably not, but a Space Marine Scout who's got his bolt pistol to your skull, now there's some motivation!

 

[Deneris]

Or yet ANOTHER idea (I'm chock full of them, or something else, at least :wink; The Commisars could be decommisioned marines- IE those too injured to return to "normal" duty, but not injured/important enough to get crammed in a Dreadnought.

 

[Cadian81st]

Hmm...maybe. Sort of like how the space wolf scouts are actually veterans instead of newbs...that has promise.

 

[WarlordKaptainGrishnak]

Or yet ANOTHER idea (I'm chock full of them, or something else, at least :wink; The Commisars could be decommisioned marines- IE those too injured to return to "normal" duty, but not injured/important enough to get crammed in a Dreadnought.

Commissar Yoda :victory:

It sounds like a very nice idea, if you can make a normal scout model/Telion look really characterful and important it will look awsome.

An idea could be this; Telion and his unit of Scouts have gone to a stranded UDF Regiment who became displaced during an <Insert enemy race> incursion into the System, upon reaching the force Telion conferred with the Officer Commanding about their current situation, and Telion and his squad split up to give advice/opinions/directions to the Regiment on returning to a safe zone.

To represent this you can have:
Sergeant Telion > 'counts as' Lord Commissar
Scout 1 > Platoon Command Squad Commissar
Scout 2 > as above
etc

If an execution is made, this is because the Platoon Commander was about to make a decision that would threaten the safety of the Regiment course, and the Scout-Commissar has had to remove the Commander from his position, so to speak.

An idea anyway.

Look forward to more on this.
Grish

 

[Asmodeun]

It's a good idea. I always recon that a stand-out man in a squad should Really stand out.

 

[Salio]

I think this will work very well and will lead to a very characterful army, especially if you have more ideas like this! On a side note, an explanation could be that the scouts are looking for the next group of normal humans to plant the gene-seed in. Good luck with your army!

 

[Cadian81st]

I think this will work very well and will lead to a very characterful army, especially if you have more ideas like this! On a side note, an explanation could be that the scouts are looking for the next group of normal humans to plant the gene-seed in. Good luck with your army!

Thanks man, and that was sort of the originating idea. That, as the UDF was the most martial force in the Ultramar system, it would make sense to keep permanent tabs on it for recruitment purposes.

 

[Stella Cadente]

personally I'm not a fan of the idea, the way marines are seems to show there smart enough to know that retreat is always an option if it helps later on, and especially so for scouts, who keep a low profile, going around screaming at people doesn't really suit there style at all to me.

I'd just stick with commissars, I see no reason why they wouldn't be around, and maybe just trade classic red with ultrasmurf blue