Scorpion powerfist: str 6 right?

1959 Views 32 Replies 8 Participants Last post by Mad King George, Feb 17, 2008

Culler

Discussion Starter · Feb 16, 2008

Just so I can point somewhere besides the codex to show someone that the eldar striking scorpion strikes at str 6 because you can't use both the benefit of the chainsword with the powerfist. He argues that the chainsword is wargear and so adds to the fist. I explain that the sword is a weapon and thus doesn't stack just like it says on p. 46 in the second paragraph. Can anyone back me up?

Save

1 - 5 of 33 Posts

bobinatorect

· #4 · Feb 16, 2008

Unfortunately for you I do believe that it makes the powerfist strength 7.

The Chain sword entry states: This is a one-handed weapon that adds +1 S to the model's attacks.

It does not say "adds +1 strength to attacks made with this weapon." It just says +1 strength to attacks. So if he attacks in CC he is at +1 strength, and remember that you double strength then add the +1.

Save

bobinatorect

· #6 · Feb 16, 2008

Galahad said:
yes, but a Power Fist also says it doubles the user's Str (without saying that it;s limited to attacks made with it) then goes on to say that attacks made with it are at init 1

Does that mean you can use a powerfist and a knife and strike at your full initiative and double strength by using the knife?

By the same wording logic, the powerfist doubles your str and lets you ignore armor saves with no strings attached. Only the init limitation is specifically tied to the fist, so theoretically you can use your combat knife or bolt pistol and strike at full initiative and double strength.

But the rules specifically call out (paragraph 2 p46) that if you have multiple special close combat attacks you have to pick one and uses the power fist as an example. The powerfist's strength enhancement has the same wording as the scorpion chainsword, but the paragraph clearly shows that if you want its benefits you have to commit to it in the assault phase.

Bottom line is, if a weapon grants you a bonus in the assault phase you have to use that weapon for it to be effective.

The Power fist entry says that "it doubles the user's strength, ignoring armour saves. That means IT must be used to double the strength.

The Scorpion Chainsword says (and I quote again) This is a one-handed weapon that adds +1 S to the model's attacks. It is a one-handed weapon so it adds an extra attack for the 2 CCW. Then it says IT adds +1 S to the model's attacks. It says nothing about having to use IT for the +1 bonus like the powerfist says that IT (the powerfist) doubles the user's strength.

If you have a Scorpion Chainsword your CC attacks are at +1 S.

Save

bobinatorect

· #9 · Feb 16, 2008

Triumph Of Man said:
And this, kiddies, is a type of rules justification that leaves you at risk of having "bludgeoned with a 200 page rulebook" listed as your cause of death. :suicide:

We here at the Institution of Rational Gamers (IRG) recommend against such practices for your own safety. k:

Firstly, the book is closer to 300 pages than 200.

Second, your Institution of Rational Gamers remark I agree with. I try to rationalize the rules every time, however every time I do try to use my rationalization, I get RAW thrown into my face. I believe this is the first time I am even on the side of RAW. I was just stating the wording and why technically you get the bonus. If you don't want to play RAW, fine. I don't really care what you do. I was just showing that the Scorpion Chainsword's rules state that it adds a +1 bonus to strength on attacks, and because it doesn't state that it only adds the +1 bonus to strength on attacks made with the Chainsword like all the other CCW state that they only provide the benefit when using them (such as double strength for powerfists, or power weapons ignoring armour saves, or poisoned weapons wounding at worst on a +4), it (the +1 strength bonus) counts towards all attacks (in close combat.)

Even though I do agree that it shouldn't provide the +1 bonus, I didn't write the book, I just try to follow the rules. Thats why most of my posts are under the rules section.

Triumph Of Man, Apokra, instead of threatening me like children why don't you take a lesson from Galahad and instead try to prove me wrong with the rules. In fact I would be thrilled if you can, because I have to face those stupid things fairly often and 1 less strength would be a great help to me, especially when they are fighting one of my Daemon Princes.

See less See more

Save

bobinatorect

· #25 · Feb 17, 2008

First about the Frost blade it says that it adds +1 to the user's strength. That means you must use the frost blade for the extra strength.

The Scorpion Chainsword says that it adds +1 strength to the models attacks. If he makes attacks, they are at +1 strength, and don't even try to go on about their guns being at +1 strength because it says attacks, not shots. If a guy has a Scorpion Chainsword his A abilities have +1 strength than normal.

As for pg. 46 paragraph 2. It says only 1 type of special attack can be made. So no you can't combine a force weapon and a powerfist as they are both special attacks, but the Scorpion Chainsword doesn't say that the +1 strength bonus is only for attacks made with the weapon. It just says for the models attacks. If it said "+1 strength to the users attacks", I would agree that you don't get the bonus. If it said "+1 strength to attacks made with it," I would agree that you don't get the bonus, but it just says +1 strength to models attacks. This means that the +1 strength bonus isn't for its own special attack, just the model who is equipped with it's attacks.

As for the powerfist not saying that you only double strength for it. It does specify that. It reads that it doubles the user's strength, ignoring armour saves. Which means you either get both effects (doubling of strength and ignoring armour saves) or you don't get any because again it says that it doubles the users strength, implying that you must use it for the benefit.

I agree this shouldn't give the +1 strength, but it does, and is either intended to do so, or just poor wording. Besides that, the +1 strength makes it a 7 instead of a 6, and really only makes a difference if you are fighting high toughness things like MC or vehicles. Its not like the +1 strength makes them able to kill by double strength because, its an odd number. It's not like its overpowered or anything. These guys cost about as much as a space marine for 1 more Initiative and 1 less strength and toughness. The chainsword makes them worth the points, and really how many of these strength 7 powerfists do you have to go up against anyway?

For 187 points you can have a squad of 10 of these guys with an Exarch and Scorpion's Claw, taking up one of the elites slots. I can have 10 CSM with a champ and a Powerfist for 190 points taking up one of my troops slots. You can have your +1 Initiative, I will take the extra toughness, and I can kill toughness 4 guys instantly with my Powerfist and you can't.

Ya, that strength 7 instead of 6 makes the Exarch such a hardass.....

See less See more

Save

bobinatorect

· #27 · Feb 17, 2008

Triumph Of Man said:
Oooh look at me, I'm psychic. :biggrin:

I didn't ignore it. What that rule says is you can't combine the effects of 2 different attacks like powerfists and force weapons special rules. This is different because of the wording. It says +1 strength to models attacks, not +1 strength for attacks made with this weapon. See the difference? It's the difference that makes the Scorpion Claw double strength +1 if equipped with both the Scorpion Claw and Scorpion Chainsword.

Save

1 - 5 of 33 Posts

This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.

Top Contributors this Month