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Discussion Starter #1
Ok I have not found much info on saints as a whole, only individuals.

Many pictures show them having wings; is this a mutation, graft, or just arists version.

What are they; are they just people who do great good or are they psyckers blessed by the emperor(sounds like it because of the 2 being brought back)
 

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One of the better explainations for them I've come accross is that they are 'Daemons of the Emperor'.

Pretty much they are individuals who are exceptionally pure or holy in the eyes of the Emperor so have been granted some of his divine radiance.

The wings are something of a pychic effect.
 

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well, read celestines entry for the "wings of faith" (not psychic, as, well, a saint isnt psychic). there are a few different in fluff views on the living saint thing. some see them as particularly heroic individuals in whom the emperor has manifested a small portion of his power(Thorians mostly subscribe to this), giving them superhuman abilities. Another theory is to do with how devoted the individual is to the emperor, and it is literally their faith alone which allows for their abilities(Faith is as potent a force in 40k as any other, just look at acts of faith for examples). honestly i cant see any similarities to them being emperor daemon princes(they have short lives as opposed to eternal, dont mutate etc.) uber-partially psyker(cos they arent pskers. at all. ever) as the schola progenium screens for such heresies, then (presumably) the order that sister joined did too, and sisters are regularly checked for purity, mutation etc. i guess the short answer is that the wings are created by pure faith in the God-Emperor, or due to a small portion of the emperor being inside the individual.
 

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or.. they are just jump packs with wings attached? I'm sure Celestine are thus.. or some anti grav tech, or some other crazy piece of 40k technomancy
 

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Saint and Living Saint are two different things.

Being a Saint in the 41st milenium is much like being a saint now. All you need to do is act holy, die (preferably badly) and have the church canonize you.

Olianus Pious became a saint for standing in front of Horus, and Saint Olianus was the very definition of normal human.


Living Saints are different. All known Living Saints in the fluff are/were Sisters of Battle. Sisters already have faith powerful enough to take a melta to the face and live - it's actually quite a short jump from there to the divine powers that Living saints exhibit.

The most famous Living Saint - St. Celestine doesn't actually have wings, she has 'Wings of Faith' - which I have always understood to be non-physical - glowing divine radiance and whatnot.
 

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No - the mere presence of Sisters of Battle disrupts psychic powers.

I only think the wings are non-physical - in which case Celestine's ability to fly is due to the force of her faith,and the faith of her sisters.

All we can be sure of though, is that she's not a mutant or a psyker - the Sisters tolerate mutants and psykers even less than the rest of the Imperium.

If I were you, though, I'd be less concerned with St. Celestine's ability to fly than with her ability to come back from the dead.
 

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Not to take aim or offend anyone, but flying on pure faith is lame and a little unbelivable. Even in the 40K stae of mind. Faith in the Dark Gods still require some Psyker ability, or connection to sorcery. Faith has no place in 40K fluff but SoB rules. In otherwords there is no right answere with the Saints.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
The way I'm pic l saint so far is, they are psykers, even a limited amount ,but their's and the sisters faith blinds them to that fact.
 

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seriously, theyre not psykers. they would have discovered the psyker gene in them otherwise, the living saint would have failed the inquisition and ecclissiarchy's purity tests to see if they can be canonised, and, well its not psychic. and as to it being faith is cheesy, i find the idea of nearly all of 40k as being cheesy. add on top of which just about all of the "history" in 40k references various religious texts and faith is more plausable than the imperiums version of the morningstar being corrupted by outside gods, along with the rest of the heresy, or the war in heaven, or the birth of slaanesh. dont try to add reason to it all, or youll end up my pet calculus logi, mewling in the corner in babel tongues with my servitor! lol
 

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St. Celestine was the only Living Saint to have wings.
They were part of the armour and something the Mini-sculptor should've paid better attention to.
She can't fly with the wings or Faith though.

She has a jump-pack for that.
It's on the mini.

Living Saints are not just Sisters but due to the Sisters everyday state of mind it isn't hard to get there.
And the only living saints given in background have been Sisters or Members of the Ecclesiarchy.

Faith, as a mechanic, is the notion that someone is so set in a single frame of mind that they can affect reality ever so slightly due to the warp / realspace fabric being somewhat thin at times in the war-torn 41st millennium.
Sisters and members of the clergy do not use psychic abilities per-say but rather just believe in something to the point that it happens because they are affecting reality with the aid of the warp.
That is also why psyker powers do not work and daemons are driven away, they can't affect someone of such willpower and conviction.

It has also been suggested in fluff that the Emperor himself is aiding a hand in the goings on of his domain and those with enough 'faith' in him can channel him. And, on occasion, he will grant powers and abilities towards an individual whom will become a Living Saint.

At least, that is how I have interpreted it.
 

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In the Gaunt's Ghosts series, the ghosts are tasked with the job of protecting a living saint, Saint Sabbat. She is not a sister, but a simple herder. In the book Sabbat Martyr she actually gets killed once by the Arch-enemy, and then she "re-spawns" in another young woman and starts to deal out some serious behind-whooping, including killing a baneblade single-handed. (Rather cool scene if you ask me.)
 

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In the Gaunt's Ghosts series, the ghosts are tasked with the job of protecting a living saint, Saint Sabbat. She is not a sister, but a simple herder. In the book Sabbat Martyr she actually gets killed once by the Arch-enemy, and then she "re-spawns" in another young woman and starts to deal out some serious behind-whooping, including killing a baneblade single-handed. (Rather cool scene if you ask me.)
Damn that sounds awesome. I need to read that... : /

And as for faith being cheesy, well it is but everything in 40k is.

Mile long space ships that travel faster than light through the demon void of warp space to land and then attack other armies with swords....

Orks in space...

This list could be a mile long.
 

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However The Orks are explain as Bio Enginered fungus, I can buy that. Mile Long Space Ships can be explain by whole planets made of factories, I can see that. Psykers and the Warp with Emotions causing entities is belavable to me, or at the least a explaination. Faith in 40k has no explanation, and in itself a oddity in 40K. Thus Faith is Cheesy in 40K.
 

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sorry to bust your bubble, but ork technology is explicity stated as working only because the orks themselves beleive so whole heartedly it will(faith). Without their faith the orks would be on one planet, not the space faring empire that they are.
 

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Sorry to burst your bubble, but Orksare psychic as a whole, and there Tech as 3rd Ed. Dex indicate works on there unique Psy abilities. Explaination yet again.
 

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And their psy abilities come from their faith in gork and mork, not the warp else they would be tainted and subject to chaos influence
 

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Ork tech works because it is a working piece of tech. Their psi abilities simply act as the lubricant and glue that'll keep it working when by all rights it should've fallen apart.

Faith on the other hand is explained. Pick one of the following...

- Minor manipulation of real space and warp space due to shear willpower and conviction.
- Emperor did it.
- Chaos, dressed as the emperor, did it.
- A mechanic stand-in for the observed abilities and facets of the human mind. (You can all but lift a car when running on adrenalin and your 'fight-or-flight' reflex. With enough mental conditioning, you can achieve these results on a rather casual basis.)

Besides, the Faith mechanic, in one form or another, has been in the game since the Sisters 2nd ed codex (Circa 1997-98) and so as far as an 'unexplained' cheesy(Yeah, try telling a Sister player that. They'd ditch an exorcist at you if it wasn't more expensive then dimonds) rule goes, it's kind of set into Warhammer 40,000 mythos as strongly as psychic space fungus 'clap-your-hands-if-you-believe' technologic.
 
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