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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Predictions Section

Rumoured Release Schedule
Q2-Q3 First 6E codex

General Codex Information
Author: Phil Kelly
State: Books is done
Other: Will be Hardcover

Legion Specifics
World Eaters (Khorne)
Marked Dreads
Daemon Engines
Khornate characters can nullify psychic abilities aimed at them
Get Bolters
Has to engage in some kind of combat every turn or suffer a random d6 penalty result
Can only have 1 Havoc squad, can take more by "trading in" something else
Having a Khorne Daemon Prince means no Scouts
"Gladiator Themed Unit" Must keep killing in order to stop a timer in their heads from killing them, might be related to the d6 penalty mentioned above

Word Bearers (Chaos Undivided)
Dark Apostles can be split off as squad leaders
Daemonancer (Unit champion)
Summoning Daemons from the Warp, allowed re-rolls to scatter and new mishap chart
Can take Marked units but with restrictions
Turn 1 Daemon Summoning
Can only have 1 Heavy Support choice but get other bonuses to offset this
Possessed as Troops

Nightlords (Chaos Undivided)
Hit & Run
Counter Attack (For Elite Units)
Jump Pack
Can only have 1 Heavy Support choice but get other bonuses to offset this
Raptors are Night Lords

Emperor's Children (Slaanesh)
Lash changed to be more like Daemon version
More heavy weapons for larger units
Better bikes
Counter Charge
Higher Initiative
Chosen will be faster
d6 result said to be very harsh
Soul Shieldsman Unit, possibly an upgrade for Veterans
Sonic weaponry

Deathguard (Nurgle)
Feel No Pain and Blight Grenades for Terminators
Poisoned attacks ignore Armour Saves on a roll of a 6
Nurgle Flamers can be made poisoned 3+ or 2+ (possibly through a special character).
Plague Knives for Chosen/Possessed Poison 4+ Ignores Armour on 6s
Stoic special rule: Can't do sweeping advances

Iron Warriors (Chaos Undivided)
Terminators have access to Thunder Hammer & Storm Shield
Iron-Fire Cannon (Thunder Fire Cannon)
Chaos Marine squads may take an additional heavy weapon once past 10 models
Siege Specialists: Tank Hunters and reduce Cover Saves on enemy units

Thousand Sons (Tzeentch)
New Psychic Powers, one of which can remove an entire squad on a failed stat test
Mindless, need command figure or suffer a d6 result to guide their actions
Sorcerers get something similar to a Psychic Hood but called something else
Higher strength/lower Ap weapons
Ap3 Bolters

Alpha Legion (Chaos Undivided)
Infiltrate upgrade for much of army
Temporary control of enemy squads/vehicles
Might be able to re-roll scenario
Greatest access to Imperial style vehicles
May force enemies to take Ld tests before they move or shoot

Black Legion (Chaos Undivided)
HQs allow broader access to all unit types, but lack of better universal special rule
Greatest selection of units/vehicles
All terminator army

All Book Specific
-Choice of HQ affects what types of units/marks available to your army
-CSM Retain Bolter, Bolt Pistol & Close Combat weapon
-New Heavy weapons, no Plasma Cannon
-Chaos units have built in negatives depending on God
-Rules for Traitor Guard
-Certain Named Characters grant various USRs and other special rules to Cultists when selected.
-Chaos units that kill a unit get to roll on a chart for gifts from a chaos lord very similar to the power from pain rule that Phil gave to DE.

2-for-1 HQ choices that can be split off, similar to Haemonculi, Priests and Wolf Guard

-Cult dedicated lists only

Cult Marines
-All cult marines are Elites
-Special Characters unlock Cult Marines as troops (Kharn for Berserkers and so on)

Chaos Dreadnought
-Rules overhaul
-Remade into plastic
-No longer random
-Can take Marks
-Can't be Venerable
-Chainfist, Thunder Hammer, Power Scourge
-Said to be one in the 6E starter set

-New Upgrades

-More upgrade options
-Jump Packs
-Terminator Armour
-All types of Combi-Weapons
-Twin Lightning Claws
-Certain HQ choices may be able to take a Chosen squad as retinue

Legion Specific Mounts
Disc mounted Rubrics
Beast mounted Plague Marines
Seekers mounted Noise Marines
Brazen Knights
-Skull Champions riding on Juggernauts
-May be Apocalypse formation yet to be released

Chaos Space Marines

-Said to be in starter set
-Typhus makes Cultists into Zombies, gain FNP and Fearless
-Can be taken in groups of 30+

Scout Unit
-Not available to World Eaters

God specific Daemons
-Same as Daemons codex but slight points adjustments to reflect the ability to summon them and 6E changes
-Lesser and Greater Demons are gone

Rubric Marines (Thousand Sons)
-New psychic powers instead of weapon options
-More upgrades for unit and Sorcerer

Dedicated Transports
-3 Hull Points

Fast Attack
Assault Marines
-Can be marked
-Berserkers with jump packs

Locust (No FOC slot rumour, put in FA for the time being)
-Small, fast, single seater Chaos Flyer which features heavily in the Sabbat World's Crusade
-Chaos equivalent of an Imperial Lightning.

-Model done and part of initial release

-Larger packs and able to take Marks
-Replaced by "Fell Beasts"

-Remade into plastic
-Night Lords only

-Nurgle Bikes, have Stoic rule so may not perform sweeping advances (Wouldn't this make them T6? Now that'd be annoying to kill)
-Attack Bikes or similar may be included

-Something "sort of" like a Landspeeder may be available

Heavy Support
-Different versions for Legions and Marks

-Maximum unit size increased to 4
-May take none energy-based weapons
-Remade in Plastic or Finecast
-Options will be even more expansive with close combat load out available

Daemon Engines
-3 per FOC slot
-Might be a Tzeentchian one

-New Legion specific LR with higher transport capacity (possibly 15)
-Described as a "warped version of one of the Imperial versions"
-Version of Power of the Machine Spirit
-4 Hull Points

-Marked Legions

Monstrous Creature
-Not Greater Daemon but can have Marks
-Not all Legions can take one, Night Lords and Alpha Legion can not

-More weapon options similar to Razorbacks
-Twin Linked Plasmagun turret with single Plasmagun sponsons

"Thunderfire Cannon"
-Legions may have access to a Daemonic weapons platform comparable to the Thunderfire Cannon (Iron-fire Cannon mentioned in the Legions section?)

"Chaos Dreadknight"
-Chaos answer to GK Dreadknight

-4 Hull Points
-Daemon Forge: Roll a D6, on a 1 you lose a Hull Point. Ability allows for Reroll all To Wound and Armour Penetration rolls from Shooting

Special Characters
-Eternal Warrior

Argel Tal


The Soul Hunter

-Unit upgrade, presumably for a Bike squad



Horus Axiamand


"Red Angel"


Unknown Raptor Lord (Night Lords?)

Kharn the Betrayer
-Eternal Warrior
-4+ Inv save
-"His bloodshed knows no bounds"

-Psychic power that can't be stopped with Psychic Hood
-Level 4 Psyker
-Gives D3 units Infiltrate

-Eternal Warrior
-Makes Cultists into Zombies
-Unlocks Plague Marines as Troops

Lucius the Eternal
-Gets extra attacks from WS difference when in a Challenge

Slaanesh Dreadnought

Iron Warrior character with servo harness

Model Releases, 4 Waves planned
Daemonancer model

Iron Warriors character with huge servo harness

Plastic Plaguebearers

Plastic Plaguemarines

Plastic Dreadnought

Obliterators remade in finecast or plastic

Plastic Raptors

Plastic Chaos Drop Pod

Plastic Locust
-Chaos Flier

New Plastic Chaos Bike kit (Rumoured Attack Bike?)

Legion specific heads and shoulder sprue
Power Armour and Terminator bits could be separate
Cult terminators have been sighted, but could be conversion or above mentioned kit

New Kharn the Betrayer
"Bulkier and still ferocious in motion"

Special Character box including:
Horus Axiamand
Unknown Raptor Lord (Night Lords?)
Kharn the Betrayer
Lucius the Eternal

2,452 Posts
Discussion Starter #2 (Edited)
Some more rumours from Faeit 212
via the Faeit 212 inbox
Thousand Sounds full squad is 20 Marines or 10 for half. 150 points gets you 4 sons and a Sorcerer. add more sons for 23 each. Sorcerer can take the boon of mutation ability (the one that gives him an extra roll on the chart at the beginning) for 10 points. he can also have meltabombs for 5 points, and you can buy an icon of flame for 15

230 Arhiman
240 for squad
although a level 3 sorcer is only 140, with mark of tzeentch he is 155

Raptors are 95 for 5, and 17 points for up to 10 more
same upgrades as before

WARP TALONS, are the new raptor. They are 160 for 5 and 30 each for up to 5 more. They all have twin lightning claws. and they have an attack on the turn they deep strike.
its not an assault on arrival. its an attack that makes everyone within 6" of the unit blinded. so if you thread the needle, they won't be shot up

Defiler is 195 now, with all the normal options.
demonforge, the ability you're thinking of, is a once per game re-roll to damage

Forgefiends are 175, they have TWO Hades Autocannons. A Hades Autocannon is 48", Heavy 4, Str 8 AP 4... pinning they are only bs 3, so it's about the same. and once per game it can reroll to-wound and to-pen you can, however, swap those weapons out for Ectoplasm cannons. which are str 8 plasma cannons. and for 200 you get THREE of them. so that's some ap 2 love
3 HP, 12/12/10 armor

Dragon 170, they have 1 hades auto cannon
3 HP, 12/12/10
they can make a melee attack against other fliers
Big rumours dump from Faeit yet again
via Faeit 212 (a Must Remain Anonymous Source)

Dragon Flyer - 12/12/10

2 butcher cannons, bs3, immune to shaken/stunned, can be locked velocity as normal. Flyer only, no hover/skimmer mode. Can vector strike at strength 10. Strafing run.
Because this might be misinterpreted I'm going to be really clear: It does not have "two firing profiles." It has 2 butcher cannons, and that's it. It does not have blasts of any kind. It is "BS4" against ground targets because of strafing run (go read it, it's a USR for details).

Terminators can be upgraded to chosen, getting +1 WS (5) and +1 wound (2), and fearless. They can take marks on top of that. It gets expensive.
- Interestingly enough, when upgraded they are troops if you take Abbadon, yet normal Terminators are Elites.
There are no "chaos storm shields,"
The best you can get is Mark of Tzeench to upgrade your 5+ invulnerable from Terminator armour to a 4+.

There is a piece of chaos wargear that gives a 4+ invulnerable, but it is not a storm shield it can just be added for characters. Yes it upgrades via mark of tzeench to 3+. No it's not available for sorcerers.

Vindicator is unchanged, but can take daemonic possession (as all chaos vehicles can). No melta of any kind on it except the potential to buy a pintle-mounted combi-melta as an upgrade.

As for the essentially indirect fire mechanism? That's made up. As for the daemonic possession changing the weapon profile for 1 shot that then expends the daemonic possession? That's made up.

The new book has a lot to explore, and lots of fiddly options here and there. The post about Abbadon and the previous one have no basis on the actual print what so ever.
And yet again, Faeit has some rumours
Faeit 212 (a Must Remain Anonymous Source) said:
Dark Apostles
It's correct in how they are purchased and that they confer abilities to the unit they're in.

They universally confer fearless(because they are fearless) and furious charge. Beyond those two, the abilities that they add to the unit are not as good as the ones you have posted, and in some cases not even remotely similar.

Dark Apostles's are more along the lines of watered down cult troops, but if added to a cult unit they still "bolster" the cult units effects.

i.e. Dark Apostle in a Plague Marine unit get FnP 4+ instead of 5+, or confers a 5+ to a unit of marines or cultists.

Let me be frank though and clarify that there is no unit that gets rampage that is not limited to 3 models. It's reserved for independent characters, walkers, monstrous creatures and some multi-wound, small number units.

Your unit of 8 khorne berserkers doesn't potentially double in effectiveness by taking less of them.

Daemon Princes
The daemon prince stuff is accurate

Daemon Princes are exalted CSM's, not Daemon's (though they have the Daemon rules), so they are not the same as from the Daemon codex. They have clear heritage as space marines.
via Faeit 212 (anonymous source)
Lord Abbadon:
Lord abbadon will become even more of a beast than he is now,
stats will remain the same and the rules he has at the moment will remain the same but there is also additional rules as well.

despicable fury: abaddon true hatred for the imperium is so deep that no other chaos space marine can match it. to represent this for each imperium enemy abbadon kills he makes an additional attack & follow all the rules of his daemon weapon (so like the furioso just with abbadon)

the second gift of tzeench: abaddon has pleased tzeench with his helping in the great game & so has granted his own personal physic aura. to represent this when abaddon suffers an unsaved wound he may re roll it (including invulnerable saves). But if abbadon fails his save again then he suffers the wound & loses an additional wound due to tzeench feeling betrayed for giving him a second gift.

none can stand the will of the dark gods: when abbadon issues a challenge or accepts a challenge (as described on page X) he ignores his despicable fury rule and instead counts his weapon as being a force weapon (which still requires a point of warp charge)

Fluff Changes
When abbadon takes a critical imperium planet he is then spoken to by tzeench personal herald to do a certain task (sorry cannot tell you that part) in the end abbadon completes this task and tzeench shows abbadon his vision of the great transformation and abbadon sitting on the golden throne along side the dead emperor. thus tzeench gives abbadon a second gift, as the planet abbadon has taken has pleased tzeench and angered the other gods without abbadon knowing a thing.

and apparently the chaos codex is super close, but white dwarf pictures will be hard to get seeing as they have been given only to (suspected workers) and the shops will receive them a day before release.
More from Faeit
via Faeit 212 (Anonymous)
the chaos space marine daemon prince being increased by 40pts! & having the lash ability taken away for good (apparently to cheesy)
the daemon prince will have to pay the same points for wings as a daemons prince from the chaos daemons codex so it is is more balanced.

dark Apostles will be the same as the blood angels sangunary priest (can have up to 3 & they count as 1 elite)
the apostle will only give you abilities depending on the mark it has taken.

the list is as follows :
Undivided : unit becomes fearless & relentless and gain feel no pain
khorne : unit gains rage , furious charge & rampage
nurgle: unit gains feel no pain , it will not die and slow and purposeful (if it joins a unit with feel no pain already then the feel no pain roll is one lower than normal)
tzeench: units gains a 5+ invulnerable save that can be re rolled if failed (unit and apostle can re roll once per game)
slannesh: unit gains fleet , + 1 initiative and rending
Small tidbit about Angron
Here's the bit on Angron: (via the ever dependable Harry)

He's advancing, from left to right. Two chainaxes, one in each hand. Right hand going for an overhead chop, the other drawn back against his torso for a sideswipe (because it's Angron, he can't possibly be blocking!). High collar. White shoulder plates. Dreadlock-like neural-implants. Very angry. Link-chain cloak with a few skulls attached...

He is a good bit bigger than a 'normal' marine.
Stickmonkey has some release dates for us
Stickmonkey said:
It's hitting pretty hard that CSM are actually October, the confusion amongst the rumor mongers is that word is WD will hit the 22nd, in time for GD UK the 23rd. With pre-orders for CSM within. And on sale date of Sept. 29th. with a later in the month of Oct 2nd wave.

So the CSM out Sept is technically correct, but the reality is its the Oct release.
Starter Set prices and Teaser Trailer

Warhammer 40,000: Dark Vengeance (English) - Special Edition 49 Fig Box, Rulepack, Dice, Measures, Templates 1-Sep-12 $107.00 USD $128.00 CAD

Warhammer 40,000: Dark Vengeance (English) 48 Fig Box, Rulepack, Dice, Measures, Templates 8-Sep-12 $99.00 USD $119.00 CAD

2,452 Posts
Discussion Starter #3 (Edited)
CSM release info from Faeit 212
via Ravengardt on Faeit 212
Hey Natfka,
yes sorry I meant 08.09. for CSM. But I still meant release, not
announcement. I asked him when he told me about the 8th, because I
thought it's too close the starter box and he replied 8th is release.
Maybe they're in the White Dwarf anyway or GW starts to announce things
one week before release. Or he got something wrong.

Now lets get down to some red meat (sorry vegetarians, I like that phrase and red meat), I did ask one of our more regular sources to see where the codex release still stands. This is mostly because I do not want to bring forth this unbridled excitement and have any let downs. Right now the hype is so high with the starter set, I can feel it from the masses around the world.

The same source last Sunday declared the following and has said in the past that as it stands CSM and Dark Angels are planned releases before years end.

The 25th is the white dwarf which is all about the new starter and chaos space marines.

Pre-Orders for the new starter set begin on the 25th, for release on the 1st.

Pre-Order for Chaos Space Marines go up on the 8th and the entirety of their range will be released in two waves on the 15th and the 29th

I find this source very credible, here is the response.
As for chaos not being in September: who told me September is incredibly reliable. Not as a rumor source, but as someone involved in . I can't imagine him being wrong, unless he was intentionally messing with me (but he was right about the starter ... so... Stealth release?)

Unfortunately, the October white dwarf articles are all about chaos, so it looks like we'll see them next month, unfortunately.

It wouldn't be uncommon though to release articles about the product after it's released though, we've see a lot of "follow up" stuff happen in the past.

So does this mean that we are going to see a stealth release? Or is October when its expected? Personally I still think we are looking at September 8th for pre-orders, because I know whats under those blacked out sections and because Ravengardt gives similar dates. However I am not a rumor source, so I can only go on what I am given or find.

That basically means, I am working with the information that I have, but this one is very tightly under wraps. I think I have the right combination to this safe, but do I have the right safe?

Sorry for detailing it out the way did, but I felt it important to not just drop the information I have without going into some of these details. If I get more on this.... I will get it out to the readers here.
More fluff regarding the Hellbrute
Faeit 212 (a Must Remain Anonymous Source) said:
Hellbrute (background/fluff)
They were mighty and honorable warriors interred in the powerful and venerable dreadnought chasis during their former slavery to the Imperium. A side effect of insanity was a known feature of Dreadnoughts. To counter this, standard operating procedures on Dreadnoughts is to keep them in stasis between service, so that they see life as one constant battle, only awake in times of great need and focus, but Hell brutes get no such reprieve.

Without the cold embrace of nothingness that makes the years and decades between war pass in the blink of an eye, they are driven mad. The rage of a mind essentially trapped within his walking sarcophagus, simultaneously his freedom and prison tears at the very fabric of his sanity and it is expressed through monstrous transformation and mutation.

Some believe that when enough service has been rendered and enough blood has been shed and victories won in the name of the Dark Gods, these once mighty warriors will be elevated to Greater Daemons and once again walk the earth of dead worlds with their own two feet.

Earlier Information
I just want to clarify that while it is listed as having a Power Fist and not a Dreadnought Close Combat Weapon, because it is a Walker it does not suffer from the Unwieldy special rule, that's why it's simplified in the codex entry.

120 points

It's 12/12/10
Str 6, ws 4, bs4, i4

Multi-Melta / Power Fist (with inbuilt combi-bolter)

can swap the Multi-Melta for a butcher-cannon, or twin reaper auto cannons (which is pretty cool, since that's an entire riflemen in one arm, but with less range), twin-linked lascannon or a twin-linked heavy flamer.
can swap combi-bolter for a meltagun or heavy flamer

Has rampage

Mark of Khorne: Rage USR
Mark of Nurgle: 5+ restore a hull point OR repair immobilized / weapon destroyed at the start of a turn. Does not let it get back up after having been killed unlike Unholy Vigor.
Mark of Slaanesh: Sonic scream, gives it offensive/defensive grenades
Mark of Tzeench: flame weapons (if it has any) are +1 strength and -1 AP (heavy flamers are AP3... whaaaat)

New Information
Some stuff I left out (it was late, I was tired)

You can change the shooty arm for a Power Fist. The power fist doesn't have an inbuilt weapon though so you can't get another flamer or meltagun on it. This upgrade is free.

The autocannon is low points cost, the butcher cannon is moderate, the lascannon is expensive and the twin-flamer is free.

It's also still crazed, but crazed works differently now.

If you get fire frenzy, you double shot at the closest enemy target, not closest target. Only if there are no enemies in range do you shoot a friendly target (twice). If nothing is STILL in range, you treat it as blood rage instead. (so upgrade your stuff to flamers and give it another power fist if you always want it ANGRY)

Blood Rage makes the Hellbrute have to move towards the closest target. Rolls 2d6 to run (pick the highest) and can charge, and must charge, the closest target within 12". (rolled as normal). If immobilized, you treat as a Fire Frenzy.

Dark Apostles make Blood Rage results more likely to happen if they are nearby (but you risk the albeit now unlikely fire frenzy to the face).

They're not infected with the same virus as Obliterators.

It's not a daemon, and does not have the daemon USR

The fluff entry also mentions that some Hell Brutes are not as mutated as others, and more closely resemble their dreadnought kin, but to make no mistake they are just as insane.

(So you can still use your old models if you have them. The hellbrute is just the evolution of the whole "style" for the new CSM, which is a lot less "space marine with spikes" and a lot more something unique).
Hellbrute info
Faeit 212 (a Must Remain Anonymous Source) said:
There's a rumor floating around that the hellbrute strikes at initiative 1.

I just want to clarify that while it is listed as having a Power Fist and not a Dreadnought Close Combat Weapon, because it is a Walker it does not suffer from the Unwieldy special rule, that's why it's simplified in the codex entry.

120 points

It's 12/12/10
Str 6, ws 4, bs4, i4

Multi-Melta / Power Fist (with inbuilt combi-bolter)

can swap the Multi-Melta for a butcher-cannon, or twin reaper auto cannons (which is pretty cool, since that's an entire riflemen in one arm, but with less range), twin-linked lascannon or a twin-linked heavy flamer.
can swap combi-bolter for a meltagun or heavy flamer

Has rampage

Mark of Khorne: Rage USR
Mark of Nurgle: 5+ restore a hull point OR repair immobilized / weapon destroyed at the start of a turn. Does not let it get back up after having been killed unlike Unholy Vigor.
Mark of Slaanesh: Sonic scream, gives it offensive/defensive grenades
Mark of Tzeench: flame weapons (if it has any) are +1 strength and -1 AP (heavy flamers are AP3... whaaaat)
Starter set WD pictures

More info on the models in the starter
via (A Must Remain Anonymous Source)
The hell brute is amazing and not in fact a dreadnought! It looks like a bloated dread from the front with a nasty mini defiler gauntlet ending in a wicked hand / claw. It appears to have some kind of cannon for the right hand. Not actually sure if it's a multi melta yet. Any rumors the hell brute is a dreadnought are immediately put to bed by looking at its back. The back is all daemon flesh. the face of the brute is a giant cluster of horns with a gaping toothy maw in the middle opening to reveal a screaming skull warped in agony.

The chaos lord/ sorcerer in power armor has a wicked set of horns and a plasma pistol and daemon sword as big as he is. It's seriously nemesis force sword big.

The 6 chosen have bolters and lightning claw dude and power weapon guy as previously mentioned by other sources. They look right out of the designs for the space marine video game. Not a lot of spikes but a ton of detail on the armor.

The set comprises of:
Chaos (no god specific iconography thus far on models but it does reek of khorne)
-chaos lord
-6 chosen
-18 cultists
- hell brute

Dark angels
-company master
-10 man full plasma option tac squad
-5 man terminator squad
-3 bikers

I also got to see the terminators. The captain has wings coming out of the top of his armor.

The assault cannon guy is a character. He looks cool with his assault cannon raised.
Small pictures of the Chaos models in the starter set that are showcased in the upcoming WD

PA Chaos Lord

Chosen with Power Maul

Chosen with Lightning Claws

Chaos Cultist

Some small tidbits today (the hell is a "tidbit" anyway? :crazy:)
Ravengardt on Faeit 212 said:
this time I got something for you.
----- and the ---- where briefed. On two things. Yeah you guessed. 25.08. will be preorder date for the starter box. There will be a limited version with an Interrogator Chaplain. 08.09. will be the release date of CSM Codex.
Will CSM be the first codex to have every single new model released within a month? This rumour claims so :D
Faeit 212 (A Must Remain Anonymous Source) said:
By the end of September the entire range will be available.

That doesn't include resculpts of old models, but essentially there will be no unit entry without a model on the shelf, even if some (read: Khorne Berserkers) are old kits.
Lots of interesting rumours popped up today, seems we will be seeing some Chaos really soon, 2 more weeks to be exact.

via Faeit 212 (a Must Remain Anonymous Source)

Chaos Space Marines is on the 8th of September

That said, the starter box will not be being released in September at all.

Big Pause..............

It's the last Saturday of August along with the White Dwarf previewing CSM. (the 25th).
Updated with More Information to clarify pre-orders and release dates.
The 25th is the white dwarf which is all about the new starter and chaos space marines.

Pre-Orders for the new starter set begin on the 25th, for release on the 1st.

Pre-Order for Chaos Space Marines go up on the 8th and the entirety of their range will be released in two waves on the 15th and the 29th.
–Special Characters–

Ahriman: Mastery Level 4, Same Stats as before, Access to Biomancy, Pryomancy, Telepathy, and Tzeentch. He is the master of witch ire spells, he can cast three spells that are witchfire in the same phase. He can also give up to three units infiltrate ability.

Huron: Same Stats as before, Mastery Level 1, Spells are randomly determined at the start of each turn.

Typhus: Same Stats as before, Mastery Level 2 can only take Nurgle powers, Destroyer Hive has been changed to be a Nurgle Holocaust Str4 AP2 ignores cover. Has Fear

Kharn: Same Stats as before, Him and his Unit get 2+ to deny witch and is completely immune to force weapons. Still attacks random people, but now a sneaky way around it. Always hits on 2+ in Assualt. Best part is he has Hatred that he can give to the rest of his unit.

Fabius Bile: Same Stats as before. Enhanced Warriors can only ever kill one model gives them Str and Fearless.

Lucius: Same Stats as before. His attacks are the same number as your opponent WS (Avatar vs Lucius fun times). Re-rolls all Wounds, Armor saves made by Lucius inflict str 4 ap2 hits back.


Dragon: 170pts AV 12/12/10 Can Vector Strike as a MC, Has Str 8 Heavy 4 guns

Shooty Demon Engine: 120pts AV 12/12/10 Two Str 8 Heavy 4 guns

Assault Demon Engine: 135pts AV 12/12/10, Immune to Cover, 12″ Move, Two Str 8 AP1 Melta Weapons, plus PowerFists

Hellbrute New CSM Dreadnaught: 105pts Crazed, BIG CHANGE no more DCW now just power fist will strike at I1

Chaos Land Raider: 220pts Only Godhammer variant, only holds 10 guys, still can get dozerblades

Upgrades: Mini Deff Roller Str 5 Ap – hits and double for failed death and glory, Chaos Lash whips but reduce attacks to 1

–Unique Items–

Demon Weapons: All Demon Weapons on a roll of 1 will attack user, but no longer will you lose the rest of your attacks.

Unique Chaos Power Axe: +2 str Ap2, Blinds Opponents, Gives Rage, Demon Weapon.

Unique Chaos Power Maul: AP4, Fleshbane, Demon Weapon, Any unsaved wounds causes instant death after toughness test is failed, in addition at the end of the assault phase any model with in 3″ must make another toughness test or take an AP1 wound.

Unique Chaos Power Sword: Ap3 Marked for Death, select any character get str x2 AP1 instant death when engaged with that character

Unique Chaos Flamer: Str 5 Ap3 Torrent, Soulblaze

Unique Icon: Once you kill a model the Icon unlocks and any model enemy model within 12″ must take Difficult and Dangerous Terrain tests and all friendly deep strikers don’t scatter.

Unique Spell Book: Gain Random powers every turn can possible hurt you as well


Attack Familiar: Two additional familiar attacks

Magic Familiar: Grants Random Spells

Chaos Iron Halo: 4+ invul can stack with MoT so that means 3+ invul

Flails: AP 2 Str 8 reduce WS of targets


Chosen: 19pts each, Infiltrate gone

Terminators: 31pts each, Upgrades got very cheap FULLY kitted 10 man unit is about 400 pts with more versatility than another other Terminator unit in the game. Still has Combi-Spam.

Zerkers: 19pts each, Chainaxe Str 4 Ap 4

1k Sons: 23pts each, Champion Mastery Level 1

Plague Marines: 24pts each, Same as before now have Poison Assault Weapon

Noise Marines: 16pts each, Must still buy Sonic Weapons. Sonic Blaster 24″ inch Str 4 Ap5 Salvo, Ignores Cover, Blastmaster 25 pts assault 2 or heavy 1 blast same as before now with ignores cover, Doom Siren Same as before.

Assault Oblits: Elite Slot Weapons act like Ymgarl Genestealers powers

Possessed: Random Chart is now D3 acts like Ymgarl Genestealers powers, but determine at the beginning of the turn.

Havocs: 13pts each, 5-15pt drop for all special weapons from past edition, can buy Flak missiles

–Psychic Powers–

Tzeentch: 4 powers only. Prime Power Random Str blast that keeps on exploding random hits for every dead model, 1-2 Roll on Big Chart re-roll spawn result, 3-4 Bolt of Tzeentch but how is a Beam, 5-6 Breath of Chaos

Abaddon is still one bad ass. His stats and cost remain the same. He will always be your Warlord. Drach’nyen: Demon Weapon, Specialist Weapon, +1 str ap2. Talon of Horus: x2 str, re-roll wounds, BA get hatred to Abaddon, Any friendly unit within 12″ of Abaddon gets Preferred Enemy. The biggest thing about Abaddon though is he makes CHOSEN TROOPS!
Legion sprues might be headed our way, sounds similar to the upgrade sprues currently available for BT, DA and SW
Faeit 212 from "A must remain anonymous source" said:
Two types of conversion kits. Unit and Character. Each legion is getting one.

Character conversion kits come with a Legion specific Torso and Head with a sprue of weapons shared between all of them.

Conversion kits consist of 10 shoulder pads, sergeant head, sergeant weapon, and a banner.

All 10 shoulder pads are unique with bits on them, not generic and match various armour pattern mks.

Potentially certain legions will come with a new / unique helmet variant (friend said Ultramarines specifically, as an example).

Cataphract terminator armour is in, and comes with combi-bolter and not a power fist, but an arm ending in a stump, and a weapon sprue with several different power weapon options.

Additional weapon sprues will be purchasable separately, in case you want all swords, all mauls, etc.

No pre-heresy drop pod variant.

couldn't confirm jetbikes or landspeeders, just the infantry upgrades.

Several of the special characters for less notable Legions will not be getting unique models, but the "legion character upgrade" will be based on the named character if you want to create it using those bits.
Some more rumours regarding the new dragon flier
via Grant
Imagine a dragon made of "fire" and coverd in a platemale armor and you won't be too far off. That is the best discription I can give.
Some of the concept art shows it mauling a valkyrie mid flight. It is pretty cool.

via TastyTaste
Has the Daemon USR
Has It will Not Die USR
–Demon Possessed–
Demon possessed just got a whole bunch cuter really. Instead of not being able to embark in demon possessed vehicles they now will only eat one of your guys and repair itself. Otherwise works the same way as before lose BS and ignore shaken and stunned, In addition some things get wargear automatically.
Oh the Dragon yeah the model on everyone mind. This is a CSM answer to other flyers it is designed almost exclusively to hunt and destroy other flyers. Clocking in about the same points cost of Carnifex these little hell on wings Vector Strike and bring pain to a lot of things. Did I mention it gets to re-roll wounds and armor pens.
–Dragons, Demon Engines, Defilers oh my-
So let me put this in perspective. All these models ignore shaken and stunned, have 5+ invul saves, re-roll wounds and armor pens, and can recover wounds and hull points lost.
-The Dragon flyer is in – think Necron Night Scythe with the main chassis replaced by a massive mechanical dragon head with segmented wings sweeping forward and around from it.
(True – The thing looks like a dragon head attached to the Owl from Clash of the Titans)

via Mysterious Guest from QnA
Chaos Dragon (Fast Attack)
The only flyer in the codex
Dragon Takes out other flyers with a ranged attack
its 12/11/10 170pts
Fast Attack

the flyer you get is retardedly good at blowing up things that are zooming.

via Bigred
I have been told the following from folks who have seen the kit:

Imagine an oversized Forgeworld Hellblade fighter with a larger rear-central "body" that rotates downward for the Dragon's main hull. It is composes of Hellblade style straight edged overlapping panels similar to the Greater Brass Scorpion, and is has plastic elements representing being wreathed in fire. It has a "dragonish" mechanical head and claws of some type on the lower body, and is on the large oval flying stand.

So yes in fact it does sound an awful lot like a modernization of the old Epic Tzeentch Doomwing. Basically not an organic thing at all, but a "dragon" in the same sense that the Greater Brass Scorpion is a "scorpion". It's a daemon engine designed for flight that is modeled after a dragon.

via Stickmonkey
Furies and Greater Deamons are still coming, unfortunately, not likely until next year.
Some info regarding the Daemon changes and units in the WD
Loken said:

Screamers now cost 9 more points per model and have two wounds, 3 attacks at S5 AP2 with armourbane. Better against most vehicles. Probably a bit worse against Land Raiders, but I haven't done the math yet.

Update: A single screamer has a 21% chance to blow up a Land Raider under the new rules and a 19% chance to do it under the current rules. Pretty much unchanged.

They also get a slashing attack that works like a vector strike if they turboboost. It's d3 S4 AP- hits which stinks, but it does say that hits are resolved from where they end their move, which kind of gives you a clue about how you should resolve vector strikes.

Screamers are now terminator killers in addition to anti-armor thanks to 4 S5 AP2 attacks on the charge at I4. They lost their 4+ save, which is now 5+.


The new fast attack choice. You can only have a squad of one (LOLwhut?!). It costs 10 points more than a naked Herald. It's a non-skimmer chariot that is fast and open-topped with AV 11 (Immune to bolters) and two hull points. Its Hammer of Wrath attacks are S4 AP- rending and it deals an extra D6 HOW attacks for each hull point it has left, (so 2D6 HOW attacks at full HP.). Terrible!

Soulscent allows the Alluress to take a few more swings for each unsaved wound caused by the HOW attacks before she almost certainly dies. This makes it worth 20 points more than aSeeker Chariot.

It is Fast and Fleet so it can move 12" after deep striking and reroll the charge move.

This is a disappointing unit. Why only one per squad? If you have a few points left over for a bugsmasher I guess you could field this.

Seeker Chariots and Exalted Seeker Chariots

Ok so these come in a squadron of 1-3 and have Fleshshredder but not Soulscent. They are on friggin huge bases so you'd better have a lot of space to deep strike them.

The exalted chariot has 4 HP so can do 4D6 HOW hits. A squadron could do up to 12D6 HOW hits for 270 points. Which gets you about 7 rending hits plus 36 S4 hits on average. This will kill most anything that is not flying or a Land Raider or Draigowing. It had better, too because those Alluresses will not survive combat.

So here's the question. A Herald of Slaanesh can take a Seeker Chariot. Can it join a squadron of Seeker Chariots? It seems like they should be able to, but I can't find a clear answer in the rulebook.

Here's the next question. The Alluress dies if the Chariot is blowed up, but does the Herald? I'm inclined to say no because it's an IC and would probably be allowed to get off just like the Necron barge Lord.

I have been looking for an HQ choice to bridge the gap between 2k point games and 1500 and below since Heralds are all flawed and GDs are too expensive. A Herald on a Seeker Chariot may be the answer.


HEY! GW realized these guys were horrible so they made them somewhat better. The cost is dropped 12 points (I think that's a 3, not a 5), they have 2 wounds and I4. You can now take a 5 point upgrade character who is there for Look Out Sir! and not for the extra attack on his profile.

Oh and you can't take Bolt of Tzeentch anymore (Sob!)

It is now a viable strategy to run a Herald on a disk with this unit for LoS wound allocation. In fact, it's a better idea than a Tzerald on a chariot. They may just survive long enough to reach spitting distance.

Oh, by the way, the save is 5+ now.

I think they're still not as good as Fiends, but definitely much improved.

We are pretty close to the release date, so I am guessing the above is right on!
Video of the new WD is up, it contains a rules update for the new Daemon models

You can find pictures from the WD here

BoKs first big rumours dumb is here
–Important Designer Note–

The new CSM codex is not a return to the 3rd edition codex, this is the successor to Gav Thorpe’s creation– the current CSM codex. Unlike before Phil Kelly was put in charge of building from the ground up; Space Wolves, Dark Eldar, and Orks codexes he instead has taken a much more subtle approach with the CSM Codex. This is not the reinvention of the wheel at its core this is a validation for Gav Thorpe and perhaps if you could ask Gav, Phil Kelly’s CSM codex would have been the codex he wished he could have written, but wasn’t allowed to.

–What will be Released–

We will know if GW has changed policy. This codex will reveal if GW has abandoned the wave method to model release with a new codex or if they have stopped caring and show you all the new models even if they don’t come out right away.

Finecast: Dark Apostle, Warsmith, New Lord, Oblits, All Old Special Characters not updated already

New Plastic: Dragon, Raptors, Dreadnaught, Demon Engine, Assault Oblits, Chosen

Upgrade Packs: Plague Marines, 1k Sons, Emperor’s Children

–General Changes–

Almost all of the old units are either the same point cost or have gotten cheaper. With the notable exceptions of Chosen, Terminators, Defilers getting more expensive. The notable cheaper ones being basic CSM, Oblits, Zerkers, The CSM is really an upgrade codex, while things have gotten cheaper you will be hard pressed to keep your units inexpensive with all the wargear you can add. The cheaper units doesn’t come without a cost as well, almost all units saw a LD drop. Also you will start to see a lot of the new USRs in the CSM book.

–What has stayed the Same–

The Cult units are the same in stats and basic wargear. No new Spacial Characters. Abbadon is still the only one with Eternal Warrior. Demon Weapons still can kill you. The Dreadnaught is still Crazy. The unit sizes have stayed the same as well as the wargear options found in the old codex; e.g. Chosen can still get a butt load special weapons.

–Psychic Powers–

As can you expect each Chaos God gives their chosen Sorcerer access to their own set of spells. That allows you to pick from Basic Spells and the new ones for each God. If anyone was wondering Lash of Submission is gone.

Ok now that we got the basics out-of-the-way let us get to the good stuff


A good number of units in the CSM codex have this USR.

CC Oblit
Demon Engines
Demon Prince

–It Will Not Die–

Wonder who was getting this new USR well you guessed it CSM is.

Demon Engines

–Demon Possessed–

Demon possessed just got a whole bunch cuter really. Instead of not being able to embark in demon possessed vehicles they now will only eat one of your guys and repair itself. Otherwise works the same way as before lose BS and ignore shaken and stunned, In addition some things get wargear automatically.

Demon Engines


All CSM characters must always accept challenges

–Icons and Marks–

Marks and Icons are both purchasable by most units. That means you have five new Icons and the same four marks, in which units can have a combination of two. This is a list of the USRs and stat bonus possible.

+1 T
+1 Invul Save
Soul Blaze
Furious Charge
+1 I

–Space Marines Better Hide–

Almost all CSM units get Hatred Space Marines. Now I am not sure if this includes all Space Marine variants or just Smurfs and friends.

–?Eye of the Gods Table?–

Yeah this will be the chart to end all charts and competitive players will cry everywhere because it is random. All 60+random abilities! Yes you heard it right over 60! How it works I don’t know, but characters can get multiple rolls on the chart through various methods.

Time for some specific models right? Sure why not!


Oh the Dragon yeah the model on everyone mind. This is a CSM answer to other flyers it is designed almost exclusively to hunt and destroy other flyers. Clocking in about the same points cost of Carnifex these little hell on wings Vector Strike and bring pain to a lot of things. Did I mention it gets to re-roll wounds and armor pens.

–Demon Engines–

The other mystery model that has been leaked. These guys sit on the large bases like Trygons. They have an assortment of special weapons that have never been seen before. They are designed for Building and Heavy armor destruction with Melta CC weapons and bonuses against buildings. They as well get to re-roll wounds and armor pens. Side note: Defilers as well get to re-roll wounds and armor pen.

–Dragons, Demon Engines, Defilers oh my-

So let me put this in perspective. All these models ignore shaken and stunned, have 5+ invul saves, re-roll wounds and armor pens, and can recover wounds and hull points lost.

–Cult Units–

I know much of the Internet was crying about them only being in the Elite slot when I first mentioned it. How dare they force me to take Kharn to spam Berserkers! Well don’t worry is not as bad as you think. You can also get a generic Lord and buy the correct mark and unlock them as troops as well. As for the rules themselves just minor changes.

Zerkers: Rage, Cheaper
1k Sons: Soul Fire, Same cost
Emperor Children: Weapons Ignore cover and now have Salvo USR, Cheaper
Plague Marines: Poison Weapons, More Expensive

–Typhus and Cultists–

Typhus is now a mastery level 2 sorcerer of Nurgle. In addition as reported earlier he can make any cultist a zombie. Zombies are going to be disgusting in 6th edition. FnP, Fearless, Fear, and all for no additional cost. As for Cultists they are cheap not conscript cheap, but close. You can get over 30 of them in a squad.

–Daemon Princes, Sorcerers , Chaos Lords–

Princes got more expensive wargear bringing them in line with the Demon Codex. Sorcerers are pretty much the same with the ability to buy up to Master level 3, but they only ever have 2 wounds. Chaos Lords are where it seems to be at, Phil Kelly wants you to design a Lord tailored to your army, their list of wargear options is easily the largest of any model in the book. Also remember they allow you to make Cult Units troops.

Ok that is all I got for now, depending on how the week goes and what GW does I might get more rumors for you, but until now that is all I got. Wait, no I just remembered something…

If you are currently complaining about Warlord traits being too random well play that violin some more. GW really wants you to use them! The CSM codex has it’s own Warlord chart, but the big announcement is some characters have specific Warlord Traits! These are built into the cost of the model, so no taking them out!
List of Aug releases, no CSM in there so I guess we gotta wait for September or October for the new codex. Some new Daemons though, so get some and paint those allies :crazy:

2,452 Posts
Discussion Starter #4 (Edited)
BoK has slowly started on their rumours dump. Seems CSM will have Hatred Adeptus Astartes which does make sense. Hmm, come to think of it Sisters of Battle would have Hatred Everyone since they fight Witchcraft, Heresy and Mutation and everyone falls into either :crazy:

Working on the CSM rumor dump right now guys! Here is a tease for you though the CSM will strike with a ”hatred” at the Adeptus Astartes
hastings says the codex will come in October, other say August or September. We should know by the end of the week.
75hastings69 said:
I was going to post this on the other thread but it got closed, so ive made a list of what models the CSM players can expext, note that i dont know if these will all come at once or in waves, some of these (or click fit varients of them) are in the starter box.

Note also that ill not be adding rules or updating this thread in anyway so that will be up to you guys.

I'm expecting the codex to hit late October or early November (depending on if the rumour that the wfb WoC army book isn't out till feb 2013 is true or not - I'm still expecting that book in October)

Upcoming models:-

Dread looks like an angry obliterater on roids!
Obliterators look good but not as good as the "mauler" CC version ;)
Dragon flyer is ok
Two deamonic Centauroid cannon things a bit iffy
Warp smith
Some odd walker thing
New csm marines (could be recut with added bits? Either way I didn't recognise them as current ones - but then again my 40k fu is weak!)
Chosen very nice too
GW has released a new trailer, it's clearly Daemons. The pictures you see flashing are from the current Daemon codex cover

Some info on Daemons
Release Date: Unknown.
However there are rumours that a release of models is coming very soon. (Harry)Next month ... in next months white Dwarf (Kijamon)

There are no rumours of a book at all. Just a wave of models. ( Harry)

Army book update sheet/leaflet in next months White Dwarf with new rules and updates.

Plastic Plague Bearers. (Erazmus_M_Wattle, manickZe, Harry)
Finecast screamers ... not the old models. New sculpts. (Erazmus_M_Wattle)
Some BIG , gribbly monster type thing. (Not a mammoth. Not a Greater Daemon).(Harry) Nurgle specific? (Harry)
Flying? chariot. (Harry, Erazmus_M_Wattle)
Herald of Slaanesh on chariot been spotted in warehouses.(Silvertounge)
Soulgrinders in fantasy. Massive rectangle base. (Erazmuz_M_Wattle) This must be the big thing on a monster base I heard about. I wasn't expecting a soul grinder ... Nurgle speciific thing was (clearly)my incorrect assumption. (Harry)

This just in from Rixitotal who has read next months White Dwarf:

"So in next months white dwarf there is going to be a leaflet with updates for Codex daemons and daemons in fantasy.
Some changes to old units, flamers are now only S4 in fantasy and some units have had point changes. ect.
Also new units slannesh massive chariot (2D6 +1 impact hits) and other weird chariot thing in 1 kit. the other thing looks and acts kind of like a mobile meat lawnmower. This is in both games and acts like a chariot in 40K.
Soul grinders are coming to fantasy! has T7 6 wounds and a load of upgrades for its shooting. looks pretty mental.
The model (40K kit) in the white dwarf and leaflet was on the same base as the giant goblin spider.
New models for plague bearers (really really nice, some have fly heads)
Screamers (look similar but with lots of eyes),
Flamers (similar)
Nurgalings (looks like a pile of funny little germ monsters you might get in a dish washer advert).

More confirmation of this and some more details from my inbox:

Chariot kit has two builds. One has four daemonettes and a herald called an exalted with a big whip. The other build has the exalted on her own but the chariot is dragging spiked / bladed rollers behind it.

Soul grinders comes on the same base as the Arachnarok spider. Shooting attacks. One attack works like grape shot but can be upgraded. Another works like a stone thrower.

Blue Scribes gets a mini. More Dais than disc.

Further Down The road:

All 4 greater Deamons will get plastic kits (with head/weapon options plus wfb/40k specific bits on sprues) and that there will be "resin conversion packs" to make "named greater Deamons". (Hastings) No idea of timescales on this. I am not expecting them to arrive together Or with this wave. (Harry)
Jes Goodwin is rumoured to be doing the Bloodthirster. No timescale for this. (NatTreehouse)

We are getting close to the launch of something, if it's CSM or something else...
Cool tidbits from Hastings, and we can start looking forward to lots of information soon.

75hastings69 said:
The csm dread looks like a very angry roided up oblit, the new "mauler" cc oblits are good ;)
Faeit 212 said:
Here is what I am expecting over the next few days.

First off Tastytaste is promising his readers something within 48 hours. Not only that over at Blood of Kittens he as declared Phil Kelly is the author. I thought we knew that, but apparently looking back over what I have posted, it was still up for grabs a little.

I expect pictures from the White Dwarf within the same 48 hour time frame. I even expect the information early tomorrow, but its hard to say for sure when things arrive. I am at the mercy of sources and when they get the information and are able to get the information to us here on Faeit 212 we will have it posted up.

Information from White Dwarf and from the codex is what I would expect to see over the next week. As things get clearer towards the end of the week, the information should start to get better, and I am hoping that there is a few bombshells to drop, as we get information on things like flyers, Daemon Princes, the new Chaos Dreadnought type (hellbeast), and more.

This next week is going to be full of rumors, pictures and other other information, so stay tuned and if your not excited about Chaos Space Marines, then at least get pumped up to see the first codex release of 6th edition.
On the other hand, there's some contradictory information about the White Dwarf.

Random poster said:
can confirm for you all that codex Chaos Space Marines will be released in October at the earliest.

The White Dwarf features Daemons. Lots of them but no Chaos Marines. The month after is the 40k starter box so that means no codex until October. I'm a bit bummed out by this but I suppose it gives me longer to save up.

However the boxed game sounds like it's going to be pretty sweet so perhaps I won't actually have any money left.
Reddit poster said:
So in next months white dwarf there is going to be a leaflet with updates for Codex daemons and daemons in fantasy.

Some changes to old units, flamers are now only S4 in fantasy and some units have had point changes. ect.

Also new units slannesh massive chariot (2D6 +1 impact hits) and other weird chariot thing in 1 kit. the other thing looks and acts kind of like a mobile meat lawnmower. this is in both games and acts like a chariot in 40K.

also soul grinders are coming to fantasy! has T7 6 wounds and a load of upgrades for its shooting. looks pretty mental. the model (40K kit) in the white dwarf and leaflet was on the same base as the giant goblin spider.

also new models for plague bearers (really really nice, some have fly heads) screamers (look similar but with lots of eyes), flamers (similar) and nurgalings (looks like a pile of funny little germ monsters you might get in a dish washer advert).

Also new beastman shaman.

should be out next week .
Third edit: The Reddit person posting about the WD is the same one who posted about the 6th ed BRB, so it's safe to assume it's true. This means that all the CSM stuff has been removed and replaced with a leaflet with Daemon changes and the new unit. So it does look like October is C:CSM, not August or September :(
Faeit 212 is one of the best places for rumours these days, here is another bit
Faeit 212 said:
a local gw store had put a event calendar online and removed it some hours later. It might be, because for August 4th it stated "Codex release party", which would concur with the newest rumors. Maybe this helps.
Faeit 212 has received some interesting information. If the WD has been pushed back there might not be any leaks next week. Seems there will be LOADS of 40K coming out in the next 3 months, does that mean there will be another 6month dryspell where nothing is released due to The Hobbit?
Exclusive for Faeit 212 said:
A lot of stuff has been circulating recently and I really don't know where they're getting it from. I just wanted to sort of set some of it straight.

The next 4 major launches are 3 new flyers, Chaos Space Marines, the 6th edition starter set and Dark Angels.

The new flyers (1 of which being chaos) and the Chaos Space Marine book and initial waves are both done and in some cases even distributed to warehouses.

The current itinerary for release is New Flyers plus the Chaos book and half the models for August.

Then it's the other half of chaos plus the starter for September

Then it's Dark Angels and their ENTIRE new range in October.

It's a whole lot coming really fast and there's a little bit of resistance (from certain people) on the release of the flyers and chaos all at once.

That said, August's white dwarf has been pushed back for reasons I do not know. In the past, however, the only reason for White Dwarfs to be pushed back, however, have been last minute removal of content and articles, never additions.

This month had so much content potential that about 80% of it ended up on the editing room floor, so it wouldn't be difficult for them to fill a magazine back up if they were cutting chunks out of it.

As of Thursday morning though, August white dwarf hasn't been sent to the printers. The drop date on that is Friday.
If CSM is really to be released in Sep what can we expect for August? Seems we might be getting some fliers, we should know for sure next week when the leaks starts popping up.
theDarkGeneral said:
I was recently told that the new Chaos Daemon flyer (along with Tyranid and Tau) get released in about two weeks along with new White Dwarf!
Aug or Sep release, we should know next week
Logan said:
regading yesterdays september release rumor
I dont have the codex but what I know is that the release date is pretty certain its wrong. Defilers being Daemons is wrong. But that doesnt mean they wont get some special save. And I dont recall Eye of the Gods but it seems like something Phill would put ;)

Bramgaunt said:
I'm staying with September for the Starter Set. August for CSM. We'll know in 1 week, anyway.

Lirith'uan said:
My sources have also confirmed that a printed version of the Chaos Codex made the rounds at Head Office last week and that they were indeed going to be shipped worlwide this week .

My source indicates August release - GW does not traditionally send books 5 weeks in advance, so as to prevent us getting the info to early
CSM codex is now being sent to warehouses around the world, a release of September 1st and the Chaos Dragon thing is in (then again these are still rumours)
Logan said:
Hey Natfka, great job. Also CSM codexes is just being distributed to warehouses worldwide now. I saw a new sculpt for Kharn. Or im pretty certain its him. Looks very cool. Also the Chaos Dragon thing is pretty nasty at other flyers. But im sure you'll see soon enough.
Anonymous said:
Release date – 1st September (7 weeks he said) and it is a hard back like the 8e WFB Army Books.
There is an Eye of the Gods esque table (Warriors of Chaos players will know what I am talking about) that you get to roll on whenever a character kills another character in a challenge, or a Walker or Monstrous Creature. There is a multitude of gifts (and curses) that your Characters can acquire which range from +1 Save, +1 Toughness, or becoming either a Spawn or a Daemon Prince!!!
Chaos Cultists are definetely in (but we all kinda know that already), as is the ‘Dragon’ – think Necron Night Scythe with the main chassis been replaced by a massive mechanical dragon head with segmented wings sweeping forward and around from it. On top of those there are also:

Dark Apostles – evil Chaplains basically
Warp Smiths – evil Techmarine that can curse vehicles and degrade terrain.
A new Daemon Engine – half way between a Dreadnought and a Defiler.
Speaking of Defilers as they are Daemons they have a 5+ Inv save.
‘Cult’ units are all Elites and are unlocked to Troops by appropriate HQ choices, but there are no Cult Terminators which makes me sad.
Obliterators are exclusively for shooting – so no powerfists. BUT there is a new unit which is basically a close combat Obliterator.
There are 2 types of Raptors now; regular CSM with Jump Packs, and then some kind of Possessed Daemonic Raptors that all come with Lightning Claws!
Possessed are meant to be amazing, and take a lot of benefits from the Eye of the Gods esque table.
There are NO Daemons in the Codex because that is what Allies are for.

That is all I can remember for now. Sorry I am VERY tired. But regardless I have to say I am excited to see the Codex in the flesh and get cracking on some themed lists with Allied Daemons or Guard (for a proper Lost and the Damned army).
6E Starter Set contents have been leaked, the chaos part of it is exactly as has been rumoured for months. Dreadnought name seems to be Hellbeast, the picture from the rulebook I posted had the name The Hell Feaster. So perhaps different region name as the leak is from China?
Picture 1
Picture 2
via tokugawa
DA has :
Captain Balthasar(with power armor, not in TDA)
Librarian(with power armor)
Tactical Sqaud(10 men, with 1 plasma cannon)
Deathwing Squad(5 men, with storm bolters, no Stormshield)
Ravenwing Squad(3 bikes)

Chaos part:
Lord(in power armor)
Chaos Dread(with tl-melta and DCCW)
Chosen(6 men, with power maul, power fist and lightning claw)
Cultists(20 men, half with ccw and pistol, the other half have assault rifle)

Via TheDude and translated spaint2k
Dark Angels
Captain Balthasar: w/ Power Armour, Power Sword, Combi-Plasma, Frag & Krak grenades

Librarian Termiel (SP?): w/ Power Armour, Bolt Pistol, Force Weapon, Frag & Krak grenades

Deathwing Squad Balachar (SP?): Sergeant w/ Storm Bolter & Power Sword, 1 w/ Assault Cannon & Power Fist, 1 w/ Storm Bolter & Chainfist and 2 w/ Storm Bolter & Power Fist

Tactical Squad Raphael: Sergeant w/ Plasma Pistol & Chainsword and 9 Marines, 1 w/ Plasma Cannon, 1 w/ Plasma Gun, 7 w/ Bolters. All with Bolt Pistol and Frag & Krak grenades

Ravenwing Squad Allian (SP?): Sergeant w/ Chainsword, 1 w/ Plasma Gun and 1 w/ Bolt Pistol. All with twin-linked bolters and Frag & Krak grenades

Chaos Space Marines
Chaos Lord: Power Armour, Power Sword, Plasma Pistol, Frag & Krak grenades

Dreadnought (Seems to be named as "Hellbeast"): Multi Melta and Power Fist

Chosen: Sergeant w/ Power Maul, Bolt Pistol & Bolter. One with a lightning claw, one with Power Axe, Bolt Pistol & Bolter, one with Power Fist, Bolt Pistol & Bolter, two with Close Combat Weapons, Bolters & Bolt Pistols. All have Power Armour, Frag & Krak grenades

Cultist squad 1: Cultist leader w/ two Close Combat Weapons and 9 Cultists, one w/ Flamer, 8 w/ Close Combat Weapons & Autopistols

Cultist squad 2: Cultist leader w/ Close Combat Weapon & (possibly) Shotgun and 9 Cultist, 1 w/ (possibly) Heavy Stubber and 8 w/ Autoguns

The leaked Chinese summary sheets from the starter set show Cultists as having Guard stats, but with a 6+Sv
It also shows them with access to Autoguns or Autopistol and CCW as well as options for Flamers and Heavy Stubbers.
Their Squad leaders can also take Shotguns or two CCW for some reason.
More Chaos Daemons seems to be on the way, Allies for CSM are finally getting some plastic love
Erazmus_M_Wattle said:
I've heard a whisper that more Daemons are on the way. We've all heard about new Plague Bearers in plastic. Plastic nurglings have been sighted. Apparently they looke like they're swarming over one another in a sort of wave. Sounds cool.

Not only that. There's more. Finecast screamers. Like the old ones but less manta ray with more tusks. Possibly some more heralds. Not sure if they are plastic or finecast.

Heralds on chariots. The Slaanesh chariot is in the warehouse and it comes with a chariot base as expected for the square basers but may also have the oval for 40k players.

The Scribes have been seen as well. The disc looks like a flying alter and the blue scribes look manic.

The plague bearers have a new look which as you'd expect harks back to the old days.
Because the rumour mill is pretty dried up I figured I'd add this. The new FAQs are out and all of them have been named Codex Name 6th Ed V1, all except CSM which is just Chaos Space Marine 6th.
I guess this is because it's the next codex and there would be no need for a CSM V1. I'm 100% sure it will require some FAQs to fix it's problems when it comes out but that might get named differently or they didn't name this one V1 so they could use that name for when the new CSM FAQ does come out.
Yeah, nothing interesting going around atm....

So I got my hands on the new 6E BRB today, when flipping trough it I came across this on page 397. There is a lineup of illustrated models, all of which look pretty much exactly like the plastic miniature in question... all except one...
So is this what the new Chaos Dreadnought will look like? I'd like to think so, as why else would the have a line up of model illustrations and add something new they wont use at the end?

Darnok has some rumours regarding the release of CSM, it does fit in with the late July rumour we have now. Perhaps pre-orders in late July and August 4th release?
Darnok said:
August will see CSM and Daemons.
Darnok said:
I'd would bet money on Codex: CSM in August. Daemons are heavily rumoured to get models as well, even though I'm not 100% sure about it.
A scan of the Generic Psyhic Powers was posted by Wez today in the 6E Rumours thread. Interesting list indeed though odd that Chaos Daemons can't use any of the generic psyhic powers. CSM have access to Pyromancy, Telekinesis and Telepathy. I find it really odd they dont have Biomancy as some of the Thousand Sons were Biomancers and healers. Heck even Divination was something they could do, predicting the future to dodge attacks or warn allies of ambushes.
Maybe Thousand Sons and Tzeentch will have an exception rule allowing them to take any of the schools of magic.

Translation from the Spanish WD
Codex: Chaos Space Marines
- Any model with psychic powers may use the psychic disciplines found in the 40k Rulebook instead of the C:CSM. If you choose to do so, for every psychic power that you have paid for from C:CSM you make take 1 psychic power from the following disciplines: Piromancy? Telekinesis or Telepathy before deployment. Models may choose to get their powers from different disciplines. Typhus generates 2 powers, Ahriman generates 3 powers.


2,452 Posts
Discussion Starter #5 (Edited)
tDG has more rumours today, I thought the starter was to be released in September? If it really is CSM vs DA why would they release the starter set at the same time as the CSM launch leaving the DA codex outdated? DA WD codex at same time? Sounds really weird but it is GW we are talking about...
theDarkGeneral said:
I'm sure there will be enough sonic weaponry in the new Codex to keep the Emperor's Children players quite happy.

As for release time, new models hit in less than 5 weeks with the 6th Edition Starter set and our Codex hopefully within a week or two of that. I was originally told August, I'd prefer it earlier than later!

I wonder what everyone's view are on Chaos Raptors and Chaos Assault Marines now that there's a juicy rumor about jump infantry striking at I(10) on the turn they assault? With their new models approaching and I'm assuming Hit & Run (for Raptors) stayed, I can see these becoming a mainstay unit of many Chaos Legions!
Not only is it my dogs 5th birthday today we get some rumours as well
Grant said:
Lucious Eternal is a beast! Gets extra attacks from difference in WS just like lilith from DE.
The defiler is pretty damn good. It has a power called "daemon forge" which allows it to reroll all wound rolls and armor pen rolls in cc or while shooting.
Typhus unlocks plauge marines as troops and gives them feel no pain in his unit. This is pretty much known already on most rumor sites I believe.
Cover is definitely 5+. Again, not really news.
Some clarifications to the above rumours
Plague Marines have FNP you don't need Typhus, it's the Cultist that get FNP and Fearless when upgraded to zombies with Typhus. Lucious the Eternals Attack profile is based on the WS of his opponent only in a Challenge. Daemon Forge is an optional to use ability that is only for shooting not CC. It allows to re roll failed armor pen or wound roll too, but you have to roll a D6 and on a 1 your defiler looses a Hull Point.
theDarkGeneral and Stickmonkey have some more chaos rumours for us
theDarkGeneral said:
Along with Daemon Engines, and a broader spectrum of vehicles for Chaos! Next Summer I believe is when the new Greater Daemons will be done and ready for release! (along with new Codex/Book)
Stickmonkey said:
Maybe a little surprise here too...
Plastic GreaterDaemons are done, rumored to have pieces to build named Greater Daemons as variants ( though not expected til 2013)
More rumours about the small Daemons wave said to be coming this August. Why 5 Plague Bearers in a box though? Why not 10 when all the others are 10? Meh, it's GW and they probably think they can make more money this way... it's not like they've never done it like this before...
stickmonkey said:
Plague bearers (5x box) Plastic. Priced as pink horrors
Furies (5x box) plastic. Priced as de scourges
Blue scribes (finecast)
Herald of nurgle (finecast)
Maybe a little surprise here too...
Plastic GDs are done, rumored to have pieces to build named GD as variants ( though not expected til 2013)
Here are some of the previous rumors, so that we can see them all in one place.
Whitehat said:
August is Daemons wave (plastic troops, last two boxes)
Apart from CSM, no more codexes/Armybooks this year
reds8n said:
I've heard talk about this wave possibly including something new... which presumably would have rules in WD ( or online ?) or somesuch.
Stickmonkey said:
Hearing bits that aside from Plague Bearers, there may be new furies in the works. As well as seeing karanak and hounds of khorne moved to finecast soon.
Faeit 212 has some interesting rumours for us today
Grant on Codex Space Marines said:
*The book is called chaos space marines.
*There are no legions. theDarkGeneral is wrong
*I don't know if I mentioned it before but the "random terrain" is officially called "mysterious terrain"

*Also the anti psyker stuff in the book is a special rule called "suffer the witch". Every unit can negate a power on a 6 up but it can be buffed....yeah...can you say GK nerf?

*One is called ecstasy...which sounds weird but basically it allows the user to fire his weapon at his strength value. I can't remember what unit has it though!

*Some usr names in the codex are "strike down", "blind", and "un-weilding". Not sure what they do.

*There is a usr called "invisibility" that seems to have an affect on targeting a the unit and also effects assault.
Very quiet on the rumours front at the moment, hopefully the floodgates will open up in a few weeks. Until then here is another quote from tDG
theDarkGeneral said:
You won't need special characters to unlock Legion Armies, however some of them will make certain unit(s) much better. The flexibility of taking a "regular" Chaos Lord, or Sorcerer, or Daemon Prince, OR Aspiring Champion(s) will still be there, which of course will be able to lead your Night Lords or World Eaters or Iron Warriors.
Whitehat over at Dakka posted a list debunking or confirming some of the popular rumours going about. He also added this comment.
2 boxes of plastic daemon troops? Plaguebearers and Nurglings?
Whitehat said:
June 30 is 6th Ed
August is Daemons wave (plastic troops, last two boxes)
DA Early next year
Apart from CSM, no more codexes/Armybooks this year
With a month of just the same rumours being posted over and over we finally get something interesting
theDarkGeneral said:
According to my contacts, we're about 2 months away from a Chaos Invasion, so let the galaxy tremble!!!

I do want to apologize for not being able to go into more detail about my previous post of what the Imperials have and we don't but will eventually get. Some of the things i listed will be very similar but not exact. I keep having players all over asking me about what kind of Land Raider will the newer version be...i don't know the name but it supposedly can carry 15 or 16 infantry models.
Guess it's time for the yearly price rise again...
theDarkGeneral said:
I want all Chaos players to know, that they should go ahead and buy whatever models from the current line they want, as none of it will become "obsolete", and the prices will be going up in June.
Warhammer World Mission Pack is out, what it does contain is an interesting Alliance Matrix. Some really interesting alliance options in that list;
Tau with Dark Eldar for instance (After what the DE did to the Tau I doubt they'd every want to ally with the DE again, DE would love to ally with the Tau though so I guess this is why they can.
CSM are pretty much what you'd expect while SoB dont like any SM chapter at all (which makes sense because of all the shit they've had to take from the Spheeze Mehreenez).
Mission Pack

Psyker Disciplines in 6E, sounds really interesting but I really hope there is none of that random spells there is in WFB
-There will be at least 4+ "Disciplines" of Psychic Powers in the game. (WFB has 8 lores)
-Disciplines seem to fall roughly along the lines of the sects described in the novel "A Thousand Sons" as used by the Heresy-Era chapter.
-Each Discipline will have a "Default" power and a set of others that you will roll for each game.
-Number of rolls you get and the the exact details of which powers you end up with are said to be similar to WFB 8th's power selection mechanic.
-Powers have a "Casting Cost" that is different from the mechanic used in WFB 8th.
-Certain 6th Codices will add additional racial specific Disciplines.
More from drbored on ether or not there will be new special chars n the codex
drbored said:
Alright guys, here's a little tidbit from my source.
Apparently, this ex-forgeworld employee is certain that Chaos will get new Special Characters.

They will not be in the first wave of releases, but will be in the Codex. He's suggested that most of the rumors we're seeing (no new Special Characters rumor) are based on the first wave of model releases, not on actual Codex content.
Some more legion rumours, almost nothing new but a rumour is a rumour
warmaster said:
i've been content till now to sit back and watch...but i think nows the time to chime in.concerning the soon coming chaos legions.....lets say "theoretically"(to protect my source)i have a close friend in game development.they have assured me that the new codex will be everything we debased chaos junkies have been hoping for and more!!!!!!

first,legions will be able to fight the way they are meant to, and with the way 6th editions % system will work,the armys will be even more legion specific playable.....

word bearers with all possessed as troops,or iron warrior armys with insane amounts of heavy weapons,all terminator black legion armys!!!!!also,dreadnaughts are not being replaced....they are being made even meaner and will have more weapon options-and NO RANDOM EFFECTS!!!!

there will be new characters...can you say little horus, honsou, argel tal, korpharon, the soul hunter...just to name a few.

existing characters will be made meaner and more playable(cost less).also,the new fluff is -as i was told-mind blowing,melt your brain down for a week!!!!

about 6th edition,i was told that it will blow your mind once you actually play it,the game is faster,bloodier and will turn you into a blood thirsty warlord who cant wait for his next fight!!!!!!

for those of you who are already complaining about the future with 6th edition i say this......wait and give it a chance,my source has told me that gw has been listning to us and that 90% of 6th edition was made with the input of veteran players

word has it all cult troops will be cheaper, and that the thousand sons magik abilities will make peoples heads spin!!!!basically chaos WILL BE THE BAD BOYS OF LEGEND.
A 2012 release rumour list, so far it's been pretty
Darnok said:
Alright, this is depressing. Really depressing. I thought this was a rumor forum. Well, I scoured the heck out of this grand ol' internet of ours back in December 2011, and I'm going to list off what I have heard is planned for the year of 2012 (surprisingly accurate for the first four months, almost five).

January: Vampire Counts army book (I made this list right when the first VC rumors started hitting, which is actually what made me want to consolidate the rumors that I put stock in)
February: Vampire models
March: Tyranid and Space Wolves model waves (I had heard a lof of Space Wolves, Nids and Necrons, and just did put stock in another full Necron wave yet)
April: Empire army book
May: Dark Angels or Chaos Codex (obviously I was misled about this one)
June: Necron wave (off a month, but my May guess probably won't fall into June, because I don't see them releasing a 40K codex a month before 6th ed; so what's coming in June? Fantasy models)
July: 40K 6th ed
August: 40K model wave
September: Warriors of Chaos book
October: Empire models and Dark Angels or Chaos codex - whichever wasn't released in May (well, the latest rumors - as of 3 months ago since the well is so dry - has this as Chaos)
November: Hobbit!
December Warriors of Chaos model wave and 40K model wave

So far, I've only been off by a month for one of the releases. And I'm looking forward to my friends and all the other naysayers eating their words when they find out I've been right about the rest of the year.

Stickmonkey has some flier rumours
Stickmonkey said:
To feed some actual rumors in here.

Wave 1 in june is as bow has revealed. But i am expecting the de bomber before end of summer along with a tau and chaos sm flyer. The csm flyer is likely w the codex so the other two may have "something" with them.
Some more 6E and Chaos rumours from Grant
Grant said:
Cheers gentlemen!
I know all of these rumors sound bloody ridiculous but they may not be bad for the game at all. I have been chatting with the source for my documents, we both feel that based off of the csm codex that assaults off of consolidation will be back as well as possibly off the bloody deep strike. This is not only backed up by the fact that they are "nerfing" assault range, but also because of 2 special rules.

Mates say hello to bloody "snap fire" and the return of overwatch.

Snap fire - allows a unit to shoot at an attacking unit at bs 1 prior to being assaulted.

Also mates, since I'm posting I may as well add a snippet or two more to the firestorm...
Rhino's have 3 hull points, Landraiders and the defiler have 4. Any damage chart result other than wrecked or explodes will take 1 hull point away.

HQ's can now challenge each other just like in fantasy. This must be accepted by opponent or is played normal. HQ that wins, wins the assault for his unit.

Chaos units that kill a unit get to roll on a chart for gifts from a chaos lord very similar to the power from pain rule that Phil gave to DE.

Thousand sons are still relentless and still have ap 3 bolters.

Cheers mates,
BOLS has a few rumours about cultists today
BOLS said:
Codex author is Phil Kelly
Chaos Cultists are available in blob squads into the thirties...
Certain Named Characters grant various USRs and other special rules to Cultists when selected.

Ahriman is said to give D3 units Infiltrate in the new Chaos Marine codex (in addition to being a Mastery Level 4 Psyker.
People have been raging about about TastyTastes rumour about Chaos Dreads being gone but that's pretty much impossible if you take into consideration all the Forge World dreadnoughts and weapons. Such a thing would invalidate all of them and sounds utterly ridiculous, which is why it sounded plausible as it's GW we are talking about. A new rumour "corrects" TastyTaste saying that dreads are still in but simply renamed and getting a complete overhaul, not really sure why a renaming would be necessary as a dread is still a dread no matter how messed up it is. Then we have the Chaos flying Dragon thing, all armies have been getting fliers and Chaos will of course not be an exception. Will they get 2 fliers? Locust and the Dragon?
Chaos Marines
-The "flying dragon thingy" is coming. It is a flyer and one of two entirely new units added to the codex.
-The second new unit is said to be a Chaos answer to the Grey Knight Dreadknight.
-The Chaos Dreadnought is indeed still there (take a breath people), but gets a new name, and a rules overhaul.
-Hardcover book (just like Fantasy army books)

6th Edition
-Many of the general concepts from magic from Warhammer Fantasy are coming to Warhammer 40,000.
-There will be "lore equivalents"
-Psychic powers will be generated randomly by psykers (like fantasy)
-Entirely new rules for constructing army lists (~Look at Fantasy for hints)
-The FOC may be history
TastyTaste as put up some rumours today, breaking his site as always.
Rules for traitor guard sounds really cool but does it mean actual unit entries or just some allied rules?
TastyTaste said:
It is about time we get some information on the new Chaos Space Marine codex. Before we get right into let us start out with some ground rules.
The Chaos Space Marine codex is the only 40k codex for this year. It is not going to be divided into two codexes or anything special. This is not the return 3.5 codex everyone has been wanting this is more a clean up than anything else.
With that said let us get started.

Troops choices will be Chaos Space Marines and Cultists
All Cult Marines are Elites
No new Special Characters
Special Characters will unlock Cult Marines as troops (Kharn for Berserkers and so on)
Typhus makes Cultists into Zombies
Chaos Dreadnaught is removed and replaced with a new unit (like how pariahs were replaced with Lychguard)
CSM now get a Flyer a Mechanical Chaos Dragon (model is done will be part of initial release)
Lesser and Greater Demons are gone
Spawn replaced by “Fell Beast”

I feel like I am missing something…
Oh yeah…
Almost Forgot...
Rules for Traitor Guard are in!
BramGaunt said:
As far as I've been told the unlock thing is correct, BUT!

Kharn, Ahriman etc unlock cult troops as general troop choices, as many as you whish. I heard that for each general HQ choice you grant a mark of a Chaos God, you can take one Cult Unit as core aswell. So, an army with Kharn could have as many Units of Berzerkers to go along with him as he whishes, because he's usually surounded by these guys. If you 'only' have a Chaos General with Khorne's favor he still may grant one unit of his favorites to the general to support his cause.

I was also told that you would have to name one of your HQs as your army's general, because that's the one who'll give you troop choices. So if you had Ahriman and Kharn, you'd have to pick between berzerkers and Thousand Sons as troop choices, you won't have both
TastyTaste over at BoK posted a release schedule rumour today, a pretty horrifying one at that. Then again it could be true as Fantasy had to wait a long time for army book updates after their new edition of the game.
So now we have 2 sets of release rumours, one so jam packed with 40K it seems to be too much 40k in too short a time span and this rumour with almost no codex updates this year but allot of model releases instead.
TastyTaste said:
40k players will only get one codex this year and that is Chaos Space Marines– along with 6th edition of course.

So the time-table has changed and looks like this:

June-July 6th Edition

Sept-Oct Chaos Space Marines

Sprinkle in some flyers, buildings, and that is all you will see from the 40k front for the year.
An interesting release schedule rumour popped up today, including some 6E starter box content rumours.

DrLove42 said:
OK so I went to a comp last weekend (yesterday in fact :p).
At this I had a chat with a guy who until recently used to be a GW manager. He talked with me a bit about upcoming stuff.

Now I know this seems like the least credible source in history (better than my brothers friends sister works at a printing company though) but other people from the club he'd come from say hes usually been right about his rumours;

Next wave Necrons. Also a suprise wave of fliers (the DE Voidraven, Necron Fliers, an Ork Fightabomba and a aircraft for regular marines. Maybe stuff for other races wasn't sure)at the end of the month, with rules in WD

Next Book.- Preorder at end of may for beginning on June release

6th Ed
End of June.

6th Ed starter box
Will not be released in the traditional pre-UK games day slot, and will likely be earlier (when he didn't say)

Chaos vs DA. DA includes 5 Ravenwing, 5 Deathwing, some Tac Marines and a Deathwing Commander.

Chaos includes some chosen, a sorceror and a boatload of cultists (He did say he didn't see a Dread - which is against every other rumour thus far I think - But he did admit only seeing some of the sprues- Sorceror also opens up possibilites of those plastic Plaguebearers we've heard about before)

Will be before the box set, supposedly preorders up at the end of July.


He claimed GW are trying to release 3 codexes and the main rule book this year, in addition to another fantasy book and the hobbit stuff, so releases may seem more closely packed than we're used to

As I said, credibiltiy seems laughable, but I believed him. Maybe that makes me an idiot. We'll just to wait and see.....
An interesting rumour popped up today, after Necrons in May we will get 6E, Chaos and DA pretty much hand in hand. Does this mean 6E and 2 dexes (dicies for u grammar nerds) in the same month?

Personally I could see something like this:
May 5th Necron 2nd Wave
Mid May Fantasy, anything missing from the Empire army book?
June 6E and a Codex (My money would be on CSM)
July Fantasy
August Dark Angels
September 6E Starter box

This does seem weird though, so perhaps:
May Necron
June Fantasy
July 6E and Codex
August Fantasy
September Codex and Starter set

Too much 40k too close to each other...
Adeptus Miniatures said:
After a long night of gaming with our local gamesworkshop lads we can confirm all new leaked info for the next few months ahead!!! Next month we will see the second wave of releases for the necrons! This includes wraiths, doom scythes and much more!! We can also confirm in the months after this all new dark angels and all new chaos legions codex to go hand in hand with the release of the much anticipated 40k 6th addition!!!!!!! :O (Oh btw theres some fine case lord of the rings too but thats not all important) - Sam
theDarkGeneral has posted some tidbits yet again.
theDarkGeneral said:
Well, with prices going up yet again in June, if any of ya'll are fond of current models I'd buy them now. Much will change once the Chaos Codex Legions hits and the next year after will be full of releases.

With lots of "New" special characters ranging from bikers to (possibly) a dread and quite a few Terminator Armored ones, that'll set many players back. Daemon engines (like the Defiler) become much better and much more upgrade-able along with a few new models.

I can't comment on Chaos Cultists because I've never asked about them (nor do I care much about them). They don't fit in a Chaos Legions Codex to me personally, but perhaps a new Campaign or Lost and the Damned White Dwarf codex?

What will I be adding when the new Codex hits? Cult Terminators first!!!
Some bad rumours for Chaos just popped up, I guess time will tell just what we get. Never heard about drbored on the rumours mill before so not sure how accurate he is or has been in the past
drbored said:
I got a rare opportunity to ply a wealth of information for some knowledge and insight about what's coming up next/soon.

Here's the rundown...

Dark Angels (May/June)
6th Edition (July/August)
-Starter Box featuring Dark Angels vs. Eldar
Eldar (Oct/Nov Xenos slot)

And somewhere in that mix is going to be a splash release of fliers that *should* include the Harpy, Voidraven Bomber, Doom/Night Scythe, and possibly more. When I mentioned 'Autumn of Fliers' I got a derisive snort, so we may see it sooner, we may see it later.

This confirms two things:
1. It's not going to be Dark Angels and Chaos for the Starter Box. GW is NOT going to put two power armor armies in the same box. Power armor is their bread and butter, and to put two power armor armies in one starter box doesn't follow any trends, going back to the Rogue Trader days. It *may* be Dark Angels vs. Tau, but my source suggested Eldar strongly for several reasons.
-A. Eldar is a girl-getter. It's the one army that attracts more girls to the game than any other.
-B. Eldar is currently the worst selling army.
-C. Eldar has a massive loyal fanbase.
Eldar are the logical step, and now they're the rumored next step in this coming Xenos season.

2. Chaos is not going to be coming out this year, but may be slotted for early 2013. This is good and bad... bad because we don't get Chaos sooner. Good because it means Chaos will be a true 6th edition army, and not a 'made for' 6th edition army. This will put more time between the release of the rules and the finessing of the Codices, which means a better 6th edition Codex for Chaos. We could, of course, get a surprise, where they slam in a new Codex into the year, but that doesn't trend either. My source suggested, however, that we may see a lot of 'splash' releases packed in, with the aforementioned fliers being one.

As for my source, of course I can't reveal him. It'd be a plain disservice to his trust. What I can say is that he is a wealth of knowledge about all things GW, Forgeworld, and Black Library, and has many contacts therein (and I don't mean GW store managers. I mean Codex and BL authors, and GW and Forgeworld sculptors).

I would be very surprised if I was proved wrong by the passage of time and the developments therein, but such is the nature of the future. Take it or leave it, but I'm confident that you shouldn't have to take too much salt with this.
Some more stuff from theDarkGeneral and Stickmonkey
theDarkGeneral said:
there may not be much focus on newer Chaos Space Marine chapters, keeping things squarely on the original 9 Traitor Legions and their splinter factions. This means it's likely there won't be much or any love for Huron.

Chaos may get a form of Preferred Enemy, but was unsure which units.

On Daemons, Daemon Princes could wind up being the only "Marked" Daemonic creatures. What this means is unclear. Could be he means there are no God-specicif Daemons, or that they are there, just that they don't use "Marks".

Whilst on the subject of Daemon Princes, they will move more in line with the ones in the Daemon Codex but "with a more Chaos Space Marine feel", gong on to say they may gain specific benefits for different Legions.

Terminators were a big topic, Chosen may not have access to Terminator Armour (contradicting his previous rumour), but that Cult Terminators would return in some form. He went on to say he believed there would only be two Terminator units, claiming one was some sort of "generic cult" unit that was given special rules according to the Legion being played. He made sure to reinforce that this was an early playtest, so things could have changed.

Stickmonkey said:
a plastic Chaos drop pod could be in the works, but tempered that by saying we probably wouldn't see it any time soon. Whether the kit is released soon or not, there could be a chance of the rules appearing in the Codex though.
Another small bit from theDarkGeneral
theDarkGeneral said:
The Daemon Prince will come in line more the way of the current Codex: Daemon version, however with a more Chaos Space Marine feel. It is possible the even Daemon Princes may gain benefits to being Legion specific. Perhaps an Iron Warriors Daemon Prince could grant more access to Heavy Support units or carry a heavy weapon himself! Maybe a World Eater Daemon Prince has Furious Charge...and Stealth for Night Lords?

With GW being much more secretive about releases, it's of course going to be harder for many of us to hear things, especially things we WANT to hear.

2,452 Posts
Discussion Starter #6 (Edited)
Last year we had "Summer of Fliers", this year we have "Autumn of Fliers", personally I think the new Autumn of Fliers rumours seem plausible if we get flier rules in the 6E rulebook. Every army since Tyranids (except for Space Wolves and Sisters of Battle (though that WD piece of shit doesn't count)) has received a flier of some sort, if we do indeed get flier rules in 6E then GW will be forced to put out some fliers for their precious Spheezee Mehreenez especially if Chaos Legions is the first 6E codex and includes a chaos flier. Anyways, here are some rumours from Stickmonkey who was the source behind last years "Summer of Fliers" rumour.
Stickmonkey said:
I also really like the Chaos flyer design. Was expecting something like the hell blade, and I am suitably impressed with the design. :evilgrin:

BTW, anyone fancy a plastic Chaos drop pod?
Another quote from theDarkGeneral
theDarkGeneral said:
Just a name I threw out there, because if the daemon spirits within. I haven't heard anything further on Legion specific rules. Daemons definitely aren't a focus, but daemonic possession is...might even be an HQ upgrade...

With 6th Edition changing the way deepstrike and reserves work, it'll be worth waiting on another Daemons codex.

I doubt Chosen will get access to Terminator Armor, with the return of Cult Terminators, and to keep different from regular Astartes. But I could be wrong on this.

Daemon Prince options are more similar to the Daemon Codex, even jokingly mentioning would it be cool if a daemon prince could carry a gun?
theDarkGeneral said:
I believe there are two different types of Terminators.

As for the leaked 6th edition rules, they're a fabrication, most of it is false. There are a few things correct.
Small oddity from Black Library, is this a joke or is Aaron Dembski-Bowden writing the fluff/rules/everything in the Chaos Legions book? reflection that he might be reading the old CSM codex to find inspiration for future books? I for one would welcome new writers for the rulebooks as the quality GWs writers put out is abysmal, most new books can be broken in 5min of reading it! Where is the fucking quality control? Bah, lets hope Aaron has some part in the making of the book, he can't make it worse than GW would inevitably do can he?
Andy Smillie said:
For the Fallen made me angry, mainly because it ended. It has all the sharp, uncluttered description, well rendered characters and thoughtful use of language we’ve come to expect from Mr Dembski-Bowden. A touching piece about brotherhood and the mortality of the Emperor’s finest.
Aaron, I know you’re reading this, put down Codex: Chaos Space Marines and go write some more Crimson Fists. Like, now.’ - Andy Smillie
Some Chaos flier rumours
StraightSilver said:
There apparently will be a new Marine Flyer, similar size but different load out to the Storm Raven.

Chaos should get a Locust equivalent, and if Tau do come out next year they should also get something.

I hadn't heard about an Ork flyer, but I really wouldn't be surprised, although if that was coming this year I am assuming it would have White Dwarf rules?

The Locust is a small, fast single seater Chaos Flyer which features heavily in the Sabbat World's Crusade, think of it like the Chaos equivalent of an Imperial Lightning.

The info about Tau I have is very old, so the flyer I thought they were getting is now very unlikely, but I would imagine it will be smething similar.

I do believe this has been in the pipeline for a while though, it can't be a coincidence that all of the recent Codices (except Space Wolves) have had a flyer of some sort in them.

IG: Valkyrie / Vendetta
Tyranids: Harpy
Dark Eldar; Razorwing / Void Raven
GK: Storm Raven
BA: Storm Raven
Necrons: Night Scythe

And there has to be a reason the Hydra has been held back, as it is one of the best things in the IG Codex (admittedly that doesn't mean much I know) and shoud be a simple kit to produce.

I also had it from a good source (not one of my usual sources, and not as directly involved, but a good source none the less) that there is a big change coming to the hobby regarding flyers.

I don't honestly know if that means rules in the core rule book, or a supplement, but they will apparently be getting a lot of attention.

For everyone hoping for a Thunderbolt, Barracuda, Remora etc though I think that's very doubtful as Forge World produce them and the guys I've spoken to at GW are quite adamant that it isn't in their interests to tread on their toes
And yet another post from theDarkGeneral
theDarkGeneral said:
A lil' additional note: another member asked if I could comment on Huron Blackheart and the Red Corsairs...

Well from what I've gathered from everything i'm being told (and again i'm sure some of it is incorrect) there's not a lot of focus or attention on newer Chaos Space Marine chapters. The focus is mostly on the original 9 Traitor Legions and some of their direct splits.

This doesn't mean that some of these Characters like Huron won't appear, I really don't know. It does seem however that GW main is letting Forge World handle more of the 'successor' chapters and Traitor Guard options.

I can see GQ main eventually making another Lost and the Damned style codex, but perhaps not for at least another year. They still have Daemons (both 40K & Fantasy) and Warriors of Chaos scheduled tentatively for sometime next year, might be a lot of extra Chaos going around that could flood the market and not sell as well. I'd like to think they would, but GW main often makes decisions that I say "huh???" to.

Personally I'm still focused on the fact that Chosen FINALLY get some models, and lotz o' cool upgrade options! With the mention to me of Bikers a few times, i could easily fathom Chosen having the following upgrades: Jump Packs, Bikes, Dread Claw/Rhino/Land Raider Daemonicus, etc.

I have also been pondering a lot about the Possessed and their possible upgrade traits. Rending and Fleet would of course be sensible and nostalgic, but Feel No Pain, Furious Charge, Wings, Power Weapons, Preferred Enemy and Stealth come to mind. If it is only 2 upgrades max, and those are our options what would players lean towards? Maybe a 16 man squad of Possessed w/Wings and Rending? Or perhaps Preferred Enemy w/Furious Charge?

OH YEAH!!! I do believe we get a form of Preferred Enemy, but i'm not sure exactly which units...i assume it'd be Cult units like Thousand Sons, Berzerkers, Plague Marines, Noise Marines, Raptors and Cult Terminators???
Another small note from theDarkGeneral, I hope this isn't true as I'd love to have daemonettes or plague bearers instead of generic daemon 1,2,3...
Daemon Princes are currently the only Marked Daemons...
Nothing new but interesting none the less
theDarkGeneral said:
Well, The Dude has once again translated nicely what I was trying to say/imply. The Chaos Legions Codex will be full of "uber" power and cool rules and modifications to make current "things" more useful. Will we be Grey Knights? NO! Even mentioning that is an insult to our Dark Masters!

I feel if players want to compare us to other Astartes Codexes, they'll find reasons to be disappointed. We ARE NOT them, but a much more modified version, tainted, corrupted, full of hate and desire for power and millennium age old vengeance! Spiky, vicious, fierce, evil, dark, and cool as hell, that's how I'd describe our new models. As they should be!

Will Alpha Legion get as much attention and love as the World Eaters? Not from GW basic, but then, that's where Forge World comes in! Will Emperor's Children have Hell Knights? Or Silver Towers of Tzeentch for Thousand Sons? Not for a while...but if I were to mention (again) that a plastic kit for a fabled "gunship" and "jackal scout" where done a long time ago, and for GW reasons not released yet, would that excite you?

Well, as for the hopes of Drop Pods/Dread Claws and Hell Talons/Flyers, yeah yeah yeah, I was told we'll get some of those, but I find it hard to believe that GW would give us actual Drop Pods...Dread Claw variants, probably. I doubt Forge World would cry much over the low sales Dread Claw they offer, and probably either upgrade it's rules to be a lil' better/more expensive or just keep it on the back burner for all their other Chaos models being released. Don't expect "exact" Hell Talons, but very fast shoot you up with hvy auto-cannons, I was told yes.

Again, I personally have a lil' hard time believing the inclusion of these into our Legions, but it'd make sense and it'd be VERY welcomed! As for the whining about Grey Knights, the current Chaos Codex can actually defeat them (and Space Wolves), i've done it enough times, however such lists tend to be "rock paper scissor" against most other Armies.

HAHahhahaha...yeah, lil' slip on the "Fex" commentary. I do hope they go with a 2 shot version of the Havoc Launcher!
Another small note by theDarkGeneral
theDarkGeneral said:
Most of the game costing you randomness is gone, so we'll be able to once again control our Legions with a bloody iron gauntlet! Possessed will be much more dangerous, and as such a viable unit again. I believe a character model allows one or more units to be taken as a Troop.
theDarkGeneral said:
Possessed could end up much like the Ogre Kingdoms Maneaters, which pick two different abilities from a decent lust, before the battle. I'd much prefer simply paying X pts a model for rending if I want it, or keep the models basic and thus cheaper points wise. This is a much better option for us, allowing fexibility.

I've not ignored the questions on Dread Claws, or super sonic speeders, truth is I doubt what i've been told. It's interesting to note that as with many Apocalypse pkastic kits, some were made for "big" things but never released do to 6 sprue count problem and market decline. I believe for Chaos we're really in for a treat ;-)

Some of the sketch work i've been privy to has me saving all my extra cash for the release!!! Someone recently asked me if I was more excited about the Codex or the new models...i'm a Mega-Apocalypse Event organizer and player, so new models get me pumped! The new Codex will be awesome and extend story lines, grant us new rules like improved Havoc Launckers, but there will always be those "sour grapes" complaining their Legion or unit or army design got screwed...ugh...these players aren't true followers of Chaos, and will get ridiculed heavily from me!
Yet again some more from theDarkGeneral, mostly wishlisting but interesting none the less
theDarkGeneral said:
I do love all the enthusiasm that old and new Chaos players have towards our hopefully soon release! Dreadnoughts become useful again is a huge hit with me! (i have 18)

As far as trying to figure out what really is coming out, I did have a thought...i know my buddies mentioned seeing new bikers, but I was a bit "hopeful" that something I mentioned to Phil a couple years ago may come to fruit...Attack Bikers for Chaos, with Reaper Auto-cannons!!! It'd be fluffy in the sense that it's keeping with our themed weaponry as well as makes sense for us to have something "Imperial" yet not quite...heavy bolters or upgraded to Reaper Auto-cannons!

Emperor's Children: My much hated and loathed rivals! LOL! Well...don't rely to heavily on Lash of Submission, as it really comes in line with the current version in the Daemons Codex, which includes only being able to affect a unit once per turn. (FINALLY!) If they kept the vehicle Legion specific upgrades in, then you'll have some cool Dreads and Predators, and "possibly" a new heavier sonic weapon than has a chance to crack Land Raiders. Maybe Rending? Not sure.

I'm soooooo very much looking forward to some new models! Forge World has kept me quite happy (both in Fantasy and 40K), but it'd be nice to have a bunch of new plastic models to chop up and convert and paint and send to war!

IF what i've been told is the 100% truth, we could see Chosen with Jump Packs (expensive), Possessed with Wings (kinda expensive), Chaos Assault Marines (average), and Raptors!!! Speed kills...

AND, on the subject of Chaos Assault Marines...IF the Cult Marines gain access to Jump Pack upgrades (moving their slot), how cool and useful and bad ass would that be?!??!??! Death Guard hopping forward to assault and "flame" up enemy squads? Berzerkers that can get their quickly, collecting skullz along the way? OH...and super psycher Thousand Sons within range of their new powers? If they keep AP3 bolters...ouch!

Ahhhhhh...really wish I knew more!
The last part of this is interesting yet contradicting at the same time.
theDarkGeneral said:
Hmmmm...i do hope players understand that the Codex is meant to do two things; firstly it's going to allow all us "older vet" players the ability to once again field a Chaos Space Marine Army that feels and plays like a specific Legion like they used to, secondly it's still going to allow very fexible builds for those accuctomed to the current Codex. HQs "unlock" units in the sense of what they count as, wargear upgrades for squads and vehicles, daemonic access, and perhsps even unit sizes.

The codex will be in the ware houses within couple months, wish I could for sure say May is their sneak peek...

Chosen and Possessed probably have the biggest overhaul of all units. The fact that you can probably take Chosen as a bodyguard unit and count towards you HQs will greatly free up Elites points...
Some more from theDarkGeneral, he/she mentions the Rage rule. I really dont like the current Rage rule as a Sisters of Battle player with both of my favourite units in 40k having it, Sisters Repentia and Penitent Engines, I did however really like the Rage rule in the "Heretics Rulebook" (aka 6E leak).

Here is how that works:
Rage: You can move as you want but if you come within 12" of a VISIBLE unit you have to do a morale check at the start of the movement phase. If failed you must charge and assault the nearest visible unit. For every raging model lost in the unit the roll is modified by -1. Ignores the rule while broken, embarked or no enemy visible.
theDarkGeneral said:
"If" Rage returns for World Eater units, it'll be governed by the old rule already mentioned, where each unit simply takes a Ld test at the beginning of the turn. Failure means you move towards and assault if possible the closest visible enemy unit (that can be assaulted).

Chain Axe talk has come up again...i believe they had two ideas of revamping them...first was giving them rending, the second was +1 strength. Time will tell if either made it into the new Codex.

Speaking of the Codex, I know I always refer to it as Chaos Legions Codex, but that doesn't necessarily mean that's correct. It's just what i've come to refer it to, as it was originally a project that was to be 3 separate Codexes (i know codices is grammatically correct, but I don't care) that were to delve deeper into the the original Traitor Legions and many of their off shoots.

Balance of power? Well...there well be plenty of power, however unless you're playing Apocalypse games, most units can't move from Elite to Troop or Fast, etc. Imagine an Iron Warriors player (bringing a Warsmith HQ) that can take Havocs as either Heavy OR Elite OR both???? I'm not sure on this, but it was mentioned to me.

Alpha Legion, well...as i've mentioned over a month back, will more then likely have lots of Infiltrating abilities that pass on to transports. Scouting Land Raiders full of meta-gamed Chosen????!!!! LOL!

I do really hope I can get more info on the possible NEW Predator upgrades!!! I hope I'm not being yanked by my boyz on this!!!
Dont know how reliable theDarkGeneral is but this rumour is interesting none the less, updating info to reflect it
theDarkGeneral said:
The new Codex is done, and yeah, it should be leaving the printers shortly, to be stored up in ware houses for distribution within the next couple of months. As for models, apparently 4 waves are planned...there's a lot of Chaos to be covered. With the Daemons to be redone sometime next year (2013) for both 40K and Fantasy, we'll see the new Greater Daemon models then.

Interesting that vehicle upgrades have been brought up, especially for Legion specific types of weapons, and apparently we do get some similar to the old "3.5" codex in these. Poisoned flamers for Nurgle, higher strength/lower AP for Tzeentch, sonic weaponry for Slaanesh and brutal blades for Khorne? Raptors are Night Lords, where as Assault Marines are all Legions and can be marked.

As i've already mentioned, HQs will have an affect on the types of units/marks available to your Army. IF 6th Edition returns to Percentages, the Codex will make more sense...
Updated the thread with all the information from all rumour threads out there I could find. If you think something is missing please send me a link.

As there has been an increase in the amount of Chaos Legions rumours (and that Tau rumours have all but gone extinct) I'm throwing together this compilation. If there is anything you think is missing please send me a pm with a link to the rumours or information. First set of rumours is from a compilation by Faeit 212: Warhammer 40k News and Rumors
via Harry
I do think CSM are the first sixth edition book but not sure if they come just before or just after 6th edition.

via theDarkGeneral
theDarkGeneral contradicts this, saying he has heard of 3 separate Legions books with an even split of Legions in each. He claims 2 are planned for release in 2012 and the third for early 2013. He further claims a “Lost and the Damned” style book and a “largely Daemon-based” campaign book are in the works for after that.

theDarkGeneral was supposedly given the Legion split breakdown as:
*World Eaters, Word Bearers and Nightlords
*Deathguard, Iron Warriors and Emperor's Children
*Thousand Sons, Alpha Legion and Black Legion
theDarkGeneral more recently began supporting the Legions / Renegades split, agreeing that the current CSM Dex will be tweaked in White Dward and called Chaos Renegades.

Jared Van Kell say Mat Ward is rumoured to be writing the codex.
Reds8n contradicts this, saying Ward is tied up with other projects (likely LotR or Hobbit related) and that Phil Kelly will be writing this book. theDarkGeneral has recently agreed with this.
Minor Gods will supposedly make an appearance and all Legions will be included
The minor Gods are named, and will act in a similar way to marks, but have no Daemons.

the background will include info on “alliances, distrust and full fledged war within the 9 Traitor Legions” with Black Legion referred to as "arrogant"

Each Legion will have something unique to them, but will have unit restrictions to offset their inherent bonuses

it won't change according to your Legion (HQs) as in swapping more Heavies for less Fast, but your access to units in those categories opens up, becomes limited, or closes off accordingly. Easy example I was given, is taking Khorne Daemon Prince means no Scouts...

*Nightlords: I don't ask much about them, though a lil' i have for my buddy Paul has around 25,000+ points of them...Hit & Run and Stealth for universal special rules, but possible counter attack (for elite unit) as well as jump pack troops.

*Word Bearers: Apparently getting a lil' extra attention, and besides Dark Apostles, new models for "daemonancers", which just might be unit champs/sgt upgrades. I'm not sure. BUT, their summoning of Daemons from the Warp apparently allows re-rolls on the scatter dice, as well as new mishap chart!

Word Bearers: Will be able to take Marked units but with some restrictions. Apparently with all the current Black Library Books out on them (I'm enjoying their reads!), and mention of the Sanctified in Siege of Vraks, the ability to take Marked units has been brought up. Not sure how they'll do this, if it'll be a 1 unit for 1 unit.

Word Bearers are "zealots" and benefit from Chaplains as well as Turn 1 Daemon Summoning. New Daemonancers models are suppose to be SICK looking, but I believe just unit champ upgrades.

*Deathguard: Feel no pain and blight grenades for their Cult Terminators, new nasty flamers upgrades.
Death Guard gain a new ability (maybe Chosen squads only ?) that allows their poisoned attacks to ignore Armor Saves on a roll of a '6', much similar to Rending without the extra Armor Pen.

*Thousand Sons: AP3 bolters will be MUCH more useful under 6th Edition, and a couple new Psychic abilities, one of which (supposedly) can remove an entire enemy squad from the table on a failed stat test!

*Iron Warriors: Access to Thunder Hammer & Storm Shield termies, thunderfire cannon off-shoot, Havocs w/Tank Hunters and relentless for some squad...

Iron Warriors: Their Cult Terminators will have access to Thunder Hammer & Storm Shields, as well as Iron-Fire Cannon (thunder fire). Basic Chaos Marine squads "may" be able to take an additional heavy weapons team once past 10 models...
Iron Warriors become "siege specialists" which equivalents to Tank Hunters and reducing cover saves on enemy units!

*Emperor's Children: Lash is finally changed to be more in line with Daemon version. More heavy weapons upgrade count for larger units. Better Bikes? Not sure what that means...

Emperor's Children have a haughtiness to them, but prideful, which may give them counter charge (on top of their already higher Initiative). More heavy weapons upgrades per squad, and their Chosen will be...scary fast!

*Alpha Legion: Lots of infiltrating abilities, outflanking, and even temporary control of enemy squads/vehicles...basically sneaky bastards!

Alpha Legion: Hardest to get info on, but "might" be able to force a re-roll on the type of scenario?! This honestly sounds more like a Special Character ability to me...but we'll see...

Alpha Legion apparently have the greatest access to Imperial style vehicles, as well as more of an unlimited Force Org slot selections, next to the Black Legion. Much of their Army will be able to upgrade to "Infiltrators".

Alpha Legion may force enemies to take Ld tests before they move or shoot.

*Black Legion: HQs allow broader access to all unit types, but lack of better universal special rules.

Black Legion, aka Sons of Horus, aka Luna Wolves are tentatively stubborn, and have greatest selection amongst the units/vehicles. HOWEVER, they're not fully trusted, not sure how this works out in game terms.

World Eaters truly become the combat monsters they're story lined to be. Marked Dreads, and Daemon Engines will be a prime staple in most Armies...

Chaos will likely struggle to combat psykers, but Khornate characters will have ways of nullifying psychic abilities aimed at them

Nurgle Flamers can be made poisoned 3+ or even 2+ (possibly through a special character).

He also thinks Plague Knives will be poisoned 4+ with 6s ignoring Armour Saves. Although he goes on to say it’s likely only unit champions and Chosen/Possessed that get them.

the majority of CSM units will retain Bolter, Bolt Pistol & Close Combat Weapon.

Daemonic Mounts will be useful, with the Undivided version "worth while" for non-Marked Legions. He also implied that Tzeentchian ones will be fast, saying “Thousand Sons will be VERY pleased with their new found speed.”

there may be an additional heavy weapon upgrade for Chaos units, but was supposedly told it's not a Plasma Cannon

we will see the return of Droomrider, Doombreed, and Cypher as well as another 5 new characters. This does not preclude any or all existing special characters being included.

there will be a Slaaneshi Dreadnaught special character.

Ahriman will be better due to new Chaos Psychic powers as well as "some kind of guaranteed psychic ability that can't be stopped via Psychic Hoods, etc"

several special characters look to be getting varying levels of Eternal Warrior (1-3), including Abaddon, Kharn, Typhus and two more.

there will be more options for "mid-level" characters possibly able to be taken as 2-for-1 HQ choices, or possibly "as a separate Elite or Fast or Troop choice that can be split off" The example he gave was a possible unit of Dark Apostles that can then split off as squad leaders. This could end up being a sort of Wolf Guard unit, it is not yet clear.

Chaos Dreadnaughts will no longer act randomly, and are able to take marks, but will not be able to be Venerable.

Possessed will be improved and supposedly have upgrades either already included or that you can pay for.

Chosen will get more upgrade options, but that they will get costly quickly depending on the Legion and wargear you select. Wargear options for them supposedly include Jump Packs, Terminator Armour, all types of Combi-Weapons, Twin Lightning Claws and more.

There is a chance that certain HQ choices can take a Chosen squad as a retinue.

a new unit called Brazen Knights consisting of "Skull Champions" (possibly super Khornate CSM Champions) riding Juggernauts. He has more recently suggested that this could in fact be an Apocalypse formation to be released around the same time.

early discussions included the idea of Legion-specific “Daemonic Rider” units, such as Disc mounted Rubrics, Beast mounted Plague Marines, Seeker mounted Noise Marines, and the previously mentioned “Brazen Knights”, but went on to imply development may have stalled because of the question, “What would the other Traitor Legions get?”

there will be some kind of “Scout unit” which will not be available to World Eaters.

God-specific Daemons will likely be included

Daemons will remain as they are in the Daemons Codex, but with slight points adjustments to reflect the ability to summon them and certain 6th edition changes.

Thousand Sons (Rubric Marines) will not get any weapon options, but the new psychic powers can certainly fill that role. He has more recently suggested they may get more unit upgrades, especially for the SGT/Sorcerer.

Fast Attack
“Assault Berserkers” with jump packs will be available as Fast Attack choices.

Spawn may possibly come in larger packs and gain the ability to be Marked

Heavy Support
Slaughterfiends from Apoc will be available, as well as versions for other Legions and Marks.

Obliterators maximum unit size is increased to 4 and may lose the restriction to just energy-based weapons.

most types of Daemon Engines can be taken as 3 per FOC slot. He has also implied that there may be a Tzeentchian one.

Legions will get a new Landraider pattern with a higher transport capacity (possibly 15) and is described as a "warped version of one of the Imperial versions”

It is also rumoured that Land Raiders will get a version of Power of the Machine Spirit

Marked Legions are rumoured to get Havocs

the possibility of a new Monstrous Creature that is not a Greater Daemon but can have Marks of the Gods. Not all Legions can take one. For example Night Lords and the Alpha Legion are supposedly unable to take one. No further info is available as yet.

Chaos may get more Predator weapon options similar to Razorbacks, revealing that one of these options could be a Twin Linked Plasmagun turret with single Plasmagun sponsons.

viaJared Van Kell
Honsou will make an appearance.

Kharn the Betrayer will become more survivable (likely due to Eternal Warrior and a 4+ Invulnerable save) but goes on to say “his bloodshed knows no bounds”

Cult Terminators are likely to return under the proviso that they will only appear in dedicated cult lists.

Plastic Dreadnaught rumoured by Jared Van Kell from Liberium Online and theDarkGeneral. TheDarkGeneral claims it will include multiple Dreadnought close combat weapons types, such as the Chainfist, Thunder Hammer, Power Scourge, etc.

75hastings69 claims there will be one in the 6th edition starter set.

Plastic Plague Bearers rumoured to appear in the 6th edition started. This has more recently been denied by 75hastings69.

Darnok has said that plastic Plaguebearers on round bases have been sighted, indicating that if they are not in the starter box, they may have a full kit in the works.

Plastic Raptors have been confirmed by the ever-reliable 75hastings69

via 75hastings69
I can add to this that the new plastic Raptors are very nice

Also supported by Jared Van Kell who also claims they may come a little later.

Darnok says there is a possibility of new Obliterators, although he is unable to say if they will be plastic or Finecast.

theDarkGeneral has said he's heard about a brand new Chaos Bike kit (not just recut) with lots of bits. No further information available.

theDarkGeneral claims there will be some way of converting Legion-specific models using a sprue of heads and shoulder pads which will fit all Power Armour kits. These would be Direct Only much like the Deff Rolla sprue for the Ork Battlewagon.

via Harry
What I heard was a box with the bits to make different legions.
But I thought this was something to do with Chaos Space Marines and the kit including various heads, spiky bits and icons to make different flavours of Chaos Marines.

theDarkGeneral has elaborated somewhat, saying Power Armour and Terminator bits could be separate:

via theDarkGeneral
So basically, all the Legions will buy the same boxed set for the majority of their models, but to make them Legion specific, separate sprues will be sold which will include shoulder pads, heads, banners, few weapons, etc. Terminators will also get separate sprues made available to them to become Legion specific.

Darnok tells us that painted versions of all 4 cult terminators have been sighted, but that they could be conversions. It is also possible they were built using the above rumoured sprues.

ant1clock let us know his local GW told him that the Thousand Sons kit is no longer available because they are moving to Finecast. It is unclear if this means a new, all Finecast kit, or if the existing metal components will move to FC.

Kharn the Betrayer– Rumoured new miniature is described by Jared Van Kell as “bulkier and still ferocious in motion”

There’s some chatter about a boxed set featuring a named character from every legion. Jared Van Kell has implied this will be Horus Axiamand, Honsou, an unknown Raptor Lord (Night Lords?), Kharn the Betrayer, Ahriman, Typhus, and Lucius the Eternal. This could be where conflicting reports of the inclusion of some characters has come from.

via Darnok
an Iron Warriors character (?) has been seen, with a huge servo harness

Drinker of tea...
2,277 Posts
You start reading the massive list of things that might be coming and then start thinking there's a lot of wish-listng there. And then the whole plasma-predator thing, which I first read about when someone was hoping the DA's would get that... maybe cross contamination.

Who knows, at least it looks like there will be some cool things and some changes. I'm hoping for more fluff, especially about the legions we know little about (same as I'm hoping for fluff on white scars, imperial fists and iron hands in the next codex:sm really).


nice boy, daft though !
10,212 Posts
I have to agree with Rev, thats alot of new toys, but then again chaos is drastically in need of a revamp and almost from the ground up, they have some serviceable plastics but compared to many races they are seriously lagging behind, that said GW normally put out about 3 plastics a month and we get about four 40k releases a year give or take so thats only about 12 new plastics so unless they are gonna spread the releases over a longer period i can see some of that stuff being wish listing.

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2,452 Posts
Discussion Starter #11 (Edited)
Awesome, the Daemon Engines, could these be similar to the FW Blood Slaughterer?
I believe Daemon Engines were first introduced in the Audio drama Fireborn, the one about the Salamanders and Sisters of Battle. Basically it completely destroys all the Sisters of Battle, they can't even scratch it, not even when a Sister holds a melta bomb against it blowing herself up. Nothing the Sisters do can stop it but in the end a Salamander dude kills it by throwing a thunder hammer at it. Dont remember much about the description of the daemon engine but it was powerful.

3 books makes no sense, it should be either be two or four, two would make the most sense as it would be similar to the old realm of chaos books, either way i cant see three books.
I agree, I added it as it was posted in the rumours round up, I later found the 3 book split into Legions, Renegades and Daemons which make allot more sense.
This would however mean that the Chaos Legions book would be massive, similar size or bigger than the Space Marine codex.

I really hope they dont split it up as GW has a hard time even updating 3 books a year.

As for the amount of new stuff lets speculate a bit.
Probably Finecast:
Daemonancer model
Iron Warriors character with huge servo harness
Obliterators remade in finecast or plastic
New Kharn the Betrayer
"Bulkier and still ferocious in motion"
Thunderfire Cannon/Iron-Fire Cannon

Special Character box including:
Horus Axiamand
Unknown Raptor Lord (Night Lords?)
Kharn the Betrayer
Lucius the Eternal

Plastic Kits:
Plastic Plaguebearers
Plastic Plaguemarines
Plastic Dreadnought
Plastic Raptors
New Plastic Chaos Bike kit (Rumoured Attack Bike?)
Daemon Engine (Perhaps the rumoured slaughterfiend?
New Landraider (New upgrade sprue is all that would be required)
New Predator (New upgrade sprue is all that would be required)
Plastic Thousand Sons/Rubric Marines
1 New kit with the Bike kit which would most likely be the rumoured Attack Bike
1 New kit for Khorne jump pack infantry or could be combined with Khorne jump infantry
Probably 1 or more plastic kits for Khorne on jugg, plague on beast, Tzeench on disks etc

Head, Shoulder or Torso swaps
1 New kit or perhaps just torso swaps for plague marine bikers, most likely just torso and head swaps to go with older bike models, perhaps finecast like plague marine torsos and shoulders.
Legion specific heads and shoulder sprue
Power Armour and Terminator bits could be separate
Cult terminators have been sighted, but could be conversion or above mentioned kit

Allot of these are just remade metals into plastics, allot of these could also simply be upgrade sprues. In the end I think we are looking at 5 or so new plastic kits, rest are just old redone. That sounds about right to me, allot of special characters though but current range most likely redone into finecast.
It might seem like allot of new stuff, perhaps even too much for a single army book but I think it's about right. They would probably drag the release on for years and years.... a few of these could even be Chaos Daemons related like plaguebearers so could be released with the new Daemons book.

So what do you guys think? Am I off?

nice boy, daft though !
10,212 Posts

2,452 Posts
Discussion Starter #13
I cant see upgrade sprues i can see full plastic units like Blood angels as they are cheaper to make ,the chaos marine sprues already have five sprues so an upgrade would mean five or possibly six where as a new sprue would mean two or four sprues like the death company or wolf pack respectively
So how many new plastic kits do you think we'll see?
The numbers stack up pretty fast but I guess it's possible, personally I think we'll see something like the space wolves kit where you get a buttload of bits to make your models with.

I dont really think it's feasible for them to have 4 boxes for most new units, heck it'd be 5 boxes for different Bike units, 4 boxes for the riders if those a true. We'd be looking at 20+ new boxes and I dont think they'd do that.

6,741 Posts
I don't like the sound of this. It's still too restrictive. Since when did the Word Bearers have an abnormally low vehicle count? Or Night Lords? And ask Daemons how first-turn DS goes for them. Wow, I get lots of fragile, un-transportable models clogging my fire lanes in turn one. Dark Apostles and Daemomancers I like, as do I like the idea of multiple types of Daemon.

Overall, I call wishlisting because they've listed Dark Apostles seperately to Chaplains. Pretty sure GW wouldn't make that big a fluff blunder unless they're changing the fluff radically.


Halloween Town
477 Posts
A lot of it does sound like wish listing, esp some of the special characters.
They may do something like the grey knight box where one box makes many, but the cult troops are waaaay to different to do that.
They will release a big toy to go with them, most likely this daemon engine thing, maybe a defiler variant?
I can't see three books being released, Maybe a cult book (ie the core four) and a legion (the other main 5) book.
I hope they have characters unlocking certain things BUT as long as they aren't unique characters like the SM codex. I like d the concept of the SM codex but not tat you need a SC to have a CF list, or RG list
Proper excited about the prospect of a new dex! I'm not fussed who writes it out of kelly or ward!

3,864 Posts
I want the Doomrider bit to be true. Be nice to see him back on the table. Although I have severe doubts about Aximand since we do not know if he is going to be killed off in the Horus Heresy books.

Drinker of tea...
2,277 Posts
I'm sure it's not all wish listing, I'm hoping theres some good stuff, and I definitely think GW are putting some false rumours out there. Just from listening to different store managers around the country as I travel around for work, they all have a different story "that they heard at head office...". Some have dates for when chaos legions are coming (November), some have heard nothing about the paint rumours...

The box set of characters would be a cool thing, but it's almost unprecidented so not confident they'll do this.

6,741 Posts
Well, we can rule out Honsou right away, because GW can't make characters before BL gives them the say-so, IIRC. Doomrider isn't coming back, because there's too much of a risk of a.) Parents worrying about exposing their children to something like Doomrider, and b.) the very real risk of being sued by Charlie Sheen.

Plus, 19 new kits/blisters and rumours of even more stuff than that? I doubt it. Although I must say I doubt that they'll redo any of the vehicles or add any more non-Daemon Engine/Chaos-only (Usurpers etc.), because that's what the Loyalist Codex is there for. Loyalists should get quality vehicles and wargear, Chaos should get the raw stats and MCs. That's the way it's always worked, in my mind.

But overall, I'll reiterate the fact that this rumoured Codex is FAR too restrictive, and thusly I'm hoping that this is almost entirely wrong.


435 Posts
There's some stuff in there that was from Ghost21 and is known to be comlete bullshit, like Honsu and 'Little' Horus.

My personal hope is a re-worked book that gives plenty of options, but leaves the player with the ability to freely theme the army the way they see fit. (ie: if you choose IW's, you should still have the option open for berserkers since a number of grand companies do have such units!)
No more silly mark restrictions like if take an HQ with MoK, you can no longer access any Slaaneshii units either please. Perhaps I want my army to represent the classic confrontation between the World Eaters & Emp's Children that led to Kharn's famous 'betrayal' and the breaking up of his legion?!

I also hope that chaos marines keep Lesser Daemons, but gain the option to mark them. So for example, adding the MoK might give +1A + furious charge? MoS could give +1I + rending and so on...
Worst possible thing GW could do would be to give chaos marines '6th edition Daemons' and then leave us poor proper Daemon players out in the cold, forced to use crappier & much more costly versions of the same fething unit/s!:angry: (or else GW will be forced to release a new Daemon codex within 4-8 months to bring us into line like what happened with TK's/VC's in Fantasy)

Hopefully GW do chaos the proper justice this time 'round, otherwise I'm going back to my 3.5 codex!

Halloween Town
477 Posts
Don't get me wrong a lot of the stuff there I would like to see cult termies, options to make themed mono lists, the ability to share the love too, ie black legion style. I just think it maybe a bit too much cake and eat it syndrome! Other than the nids codex they have all been pretty good so I think its just petty griping that worries it will be worse! I would like to see just a single chaos tomb as it were, where from it you could have traitor guard, daemons, dark mechanicus . . . . now whos wish listing ha ha!
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