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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hey guys, I was playing a game with Daemons a few days ago and came across a rules disagreement with the person I was playing against. I had a few Heralds of Tzeentch, and they were all using Malefic Daemonology and two of them had rolled Cursed Earth, I was wondering if it stacked or not, and if so, who it stacked for.

Cursed Earth: Cursed Earth is a blessing that targets the Psyker. Whilst the power is in effect, all models with the Daemon special rule (friend or foe) within 12" of the Psyker have a +1 bonus to their invulnerable save (normally increasing it to 4+). This is cumulative with any other modifiers to a Daemon's invulnerable save. In addition, friendly units with the Daemon special rule will not scatter when arriving from Deep Strike Reserve as long as the first model is placed within 12" of the Psyker.

I believe that this Psychic power would stack for a couple of reasons. First off in the BRB it is stated that Advanced Rules take precedence over Basic Rules. And as it is stated in the (Advanced Rule) Psychic Power: "This is cumulative with any other modifiers to a Daemon's invulnerable save." I believe that this overrides the (Basic) Rule about blessings saying that: "The benefit of any one particular blessing can only be gained once per unit per turn."

Another reason I have is that the power says it targets the Psyker, so other units caught in multiple 'bubbles' of Cursed Earth can receive multiple bonuses to their invun save because they weren't the target if the power.

So, for an example if their was 2 Heralds of Tzeentch and 1 Herald of Khorne all within 6" of each-other and both of the Heralds of Tzeentch successfully manifest Cursed Earth, what do you think would happen:

A) They would all only get a 4+ invun save.
B) The Herald of Khorne gets a 3+ as he is not the target, but the Tzeentch Heralds get a 4+.
C) They all get a 3+ invun save as they are all within 12" of 2 Psykers who manifested Cursed Earth
D) Something else I did not think of.

Thanks in advance.
 

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Check it:

This is cumulative with any other modifiers to a Daemon's invulnerable save.
I take this to mean that if you have other ways of conferring Invulnerable save bonuses they add up with this power, whether that to be via wargear or another power that I don't know/can't think of. If it said "this is cumulative with all modifiers to a Daemon's invulnerable save, even repetitions of this spell" I would be with you, but alas. There's an established way that Blessings work and there's not enough text in the power to sway me otherwise.

Of course, we'll likely not be playing games together any time soon given our locations :laugh:
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Thanks for that, I didn't think of it like that before, but I'm still not sure about the target of the power vs affected by the power but I think that what you are saying is probably right.
 

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The bubble thing is a bit more vague for sure, but think on the wording for Blessings:

The benefit of any one particular blessing can only be gained once per unit per turn
Nothing about it having to be cast multiple times upon the same subject, only that the same subject can only receive that specific blessing's bonus once per turn. You could cast Cursed Earth on all the psykers in your army and spread them out, potentially giving you an army wide +1 Invulnerable save which is pretty great, but each unit could only ever get +1 because it can't receive the same bonus from the same power more than once per turn.
 

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"The benefit of any one particular blessing can only be gained once per unit per turn, but benefits from different blessings are cumulative"

In regards to basic vs advanced;

Basic rules apply to all the models in the game, unless stated otherwise. They include the rules for movement, shooting and close combat as well as the rules for morale. These are all the rules you’ll need for infantry models.

Advanced rules apply to specific types of models, whether because they have a special kind of weapon (such as a boltgun), unusual skills (such as the ability to regenerate), because they are different to their fellows (such as a unit leader or a heroic character), or because they are not normal infantry models (a bike, a swarm or even a tank). The advanced rules that apply to a unit are indicated in its Army List Entry. Army List Entries can be found in a number of Games Workshop publications, such as a Warhammer 40,000 codex.

Where advanced rules apply to a specific model, they always override any contradicting basic rules. For example, the basic rules state that a model must take a Morale check under certain situations. If, however, that model has a special rule that makes it immune to Morale checks, then it does not take such checks – the advanced rule takes precedence. On rare occasions, a conflict will arise between a rule in this rulebook, and one printed in a codex. Where this occurs, the rule printed in the codex or Army List Entry always takes precedence.
This essentially means where there is a listed exception, it will state as such.

In this instance; Cursed Earth -

Cursed Earth is a blessing that targets the Psyker. Whilst the power is in effect, all models with the Daemon special rule (friend or foe) within 12" of the Psyker have a +1 bonus to their invulnerable save (normally increasing it to 4+). This is cumulative with any other modifiers to a Daemon’s invulnerable save. In addition, whilst the power is in effect, friendly units with the Daemon special rule will not scatter when arriving from Deep Strike Reserve so long as the first model is placed within 12" of the Psyker.
The wording of Cursed Earth is that "while this power is in effect"... which means that the power can be in effect multiple times, but it's still only in effect once, despite overlap.

"This is cumulative with any other modifiers to a Daemons invulnerable save"

Well, the Cursed Earth modifier is the same regardless of which caster it came from - it's a Cursed Earth modifier.

It takes an immense wilful misreading to get that Cursed Earth from multiple castings stack with one another, sorry. And no, it doesn't explicitly mention that units caught within multiple bubbles stack.

In the event of this happening in a game, roll off as per "The Most Important rule" if it's going to cause an argument (or call a tournament organizer/judge) - and then, sans tapped dice, you've got a fair result.

An unstated rule of precedence agrees with this as well.



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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Ok thanks, I had never used it before, it just occurred to me as we were playing that I might be able to do it.
 
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