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Entropy Fetishist
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Rules as Written, yes. The Dedicated Transport, purchased with the unit, is part of the unit.
We've had some debates in my FLGS about this, and the consensus--that I agree with--is that it's not. You buy it for a unit in the Formation, but it's not part of the unit itself, so not part of the Formation. A Wave Serpent isn't an Independent Character, joining a unit to count as part of it. It is its own unit, can score objectives by itself, etc. The unit that bought it as a Designated Transport can get out and another unit can get in. So we're inclined to say that, by the wording of the Aspect Warshrine, or whatnot, no, the Wave Serpents don't get the bonus.
 

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We've had some debates in my FLGS about this, and the consensus--that I agree with--is that it's not. You buy it for a unit in the Formation, but it's not part of the unit itself, so not part of the Formation. A Wave Serpent isn't an Independent Character, joining a unit to count as part of it. It is its own unit, can score objectives by itself, etc. The unit that bought it as a Designated Transport can get out and another unit can get in. So we're inclined to say that, by the wording of the Aspect Warshrine, or whatnot, no, the Wave Serpents don't get the bonus.
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I'm of the counter opinion that a wave serp bought as dedicated transport for a unit in the aspect host is still even if counted as sepperate unit for the porpose of moving and stuff. Is still classed as one of "all units" in the formation.
A major one though would be the avenger shrine that has slighty different wording. Rather than "All units" it says "All models"
 

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There was a reason I said 'Rules as Written' in my post. Maybe not RAI, but certainly RAW.

Wave Serpents can't be purchased on their own. They only exist as part of the unit, and the unit gets the bonus.
 

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Rattlehead
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The principle is correct, but the terminology is not. Wave Serpents are not part of a unit - they are a seperate unit that is also in the Formation (and shares a slot in a Force Organisation Chart). No real difference for this argument, but just a heads up for future discussions.
 

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Wave Serpents can't be purchased on their own. They only exist as part of the unit, and the unit gets the bonus.
Actually Wave Serpents can be bought on their own now as a Fast Attack choice. Same goes for Daemonkin and Rhinos, Necrons and Ghost Arks, Spacewolves (and I think Blood Angels) and drop pods...
 

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What RAW? Your rules must be different than mine.

Sometimes a unit entry will include a transport option, allowing a vehicle to be selected together with the unit. These Dedicated Transports do not use up a slot on the force organisation chart, but count as having the same role as the unit they were bought for all other rules purposes.
Those are the benefits for what a Dedicated Transport is. I.e, they do not use a FoC slot, and count as the same Battlefield Role as the unit they're bought for; i.e have Objective Secured when a Troop Dedicated Transport in CAD, for example.

In addition, as if that wasn't enough, there are special rules for what happens when units deploy with Dedicated Transports; i.e Infiltrate. Infiltrate normally affects all models in the unit, but if the unit has a Dedicated Transport, then if it was part of the unit anyway, it would recieve that benefit normally.

I can see the thinking behind it, but it's not part of the unit, just an option that allows a non-FoC unit.



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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Thanks Vaz! I think the wording "to be selected together with the unit" is enought to say that it is not part of the unit but is a dedicated transport part of the formation? "All units in this formation" is the wording in the Eldar Codex.
 

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Even if you take the stance of the dedicated transport is not part of the unit, it is still then a unit in its own right what is part of the formation and is paid for from that formations cost. It does not take any slot on a traditional FOC even if you can buy it as an entity in its own right if bought as a dedicated transport. But that does not prevent it from being a unit on the table for all other purposes.
In the case of the Dire Avengers one as well as said before it says "All models in this formation...".
I personally think that the bonus is meant to be for the aspects, but as written it applies to those guardians who pilot the vehicles as well. But actually a good case could be made that the crew work with the aspects in training or are just slightly better trained than a regular pilot and gunner. OR maybe even that they do have a limited number of a currently unnamed aspect that works in a symbiotic relationship with aspect shines as wave serpent crew.
 
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