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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Here is something I’ve noticed over the years of playing 40k, space marine army lists especially ones I’ve seen on this forum and at local GW hobby centers, tend to put all their respective marine troop choices inside a rhino or razorback, regardless of the mission. Why? I play space marine, I own one rhino and I never use it, I have never seen the advantage of putting the meat and potatoes of your army in a low armor value/ no descent weapons troop carrier, all to have it targeted first turn and blown up. Leaving your guys stuck pinned for a turn and/or losing two or three of them, and let’s not forget the 50 or so points you just lost. I do see some tactically sound methods for using them (rhinos) such as putting a close combat strike team in a rhino, run it up the gut of the battle field and unload, then next turn run in for the assault. But, to put basic machine-gun-toting troops in a rhino just to drive them around is ridiculous. I would like to hear from you guys, your opinion on this topic, and I don’t mean to criticize anyone’s strategic methods this is just an observation.
 

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your right

i haave 2 rhinos carrying

10 grey hunters
10 blood claws
and a crusader carrying 15 blood claws

rhinos go zap in apoca games


ps; space wolves players... do you all have a extra cc weapon for the grey hunters considerign they have true grit ?
 

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Discussion Starter #3
grey hunters have a bolter and a cc weapon standard, right, and you have true grit, so that means you should have 2 attacks always, charging or not. one for the cc weapon the other for true grit.
 

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no grey hunters have a bolter standard and can have a cc weapon for a few points

they get 1 for charging and 1 for a cc weapon the bolter cant be fired in combat. im just wondering do people have there grey hunters wiht a bolter and a chainsword ot just a bolter
 

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I don't play Marines, but when I did Rhinos were pretty much standard for my army...

I didn't often use them as transports, but as mobile cover. They kept my enemies from getting free shots onto my infantry, and allowed me to narrow fields of fire for my Devs. Also, having a live Rhino or two continually show up in the middle of your assault corridors when you are trying to engage the infantry beyond is often a tactic that might cost you the game. Really, beyond the obvious use as a paper transport, it is not that bad at all, and with the newer dexes, definitely worth the cheap point cost.
 

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I use transports for that same reason, Hespithe. They aren't just for rushing troops up into CC. They can be pretty good for just blocking fire, or returning fire if you have a razorback or chimera.
 

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I play DA, and if I have 40 pts to spare, and I'm out of power weapon choices, I get a Rhino w/ PMSB for my tact squad. It lets you move twice as fast, and has a storm bolter, if you keep it behind terrain you're golden. It's not absolutely terrible, but arguably a waste once you come within firing range.
 

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I need rhino's and transports, i cant mobilise my army into total effectivness without them. My sororitas need to be in rapid fire range to do the full dmg possible and there for i simply shove them all in transports wait for the enemy to come get me and rush them 12 inches forward in my first turn get them out of the rhinos and gun the gits down with fire and bolter shells. If I think i'm going to be charged next turn i simply shove the rhino in the way and let it take the brunt.
 

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no grey hunters have a bolter standard and can have a cc weapon for a few points

they get 1 for charging and 1 for a cc weapon the bolter cant be fired in combat. im just wondering do people have there grey hunters wiht a bolter and a chainsword ot just a bolter
I do not have the SW dex but I know that other models that have True grot get a CC for free and are considered tohave one. Also the reason they have Chain Swords and Bolters is with True Grit the Bolter is considered a pistol (correct me if I am wrong) for the purposes of close combat so they get Base +1 +other bonuses (charging, etc).

On the matter of Rhinos I use them as mobil cover, very rarely do I put troops inside and if I do it would be fielded by 2 other empty rhinos or maybe a LR.
 

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You don't get a charging bonus if you're wielding a bolter with True Grit, but you always fight as if you're double-armed. Part of the cost of True Grit is the addition of a close combat weapon, if the model didn't already have one. I've always sort of looked at armaments with the assumption that every model has a close combat weapon of some description, unless it explicitly states that they're ONLY armed with something like a pistol. Generally speaking, that just visually means that they're putting down their two-handed weapon to fight with a single close combat weapon or something to that effect, and thus their attacks characteristic isn't altered. If you think of it from that perspective, and consider the bolter as an additional close combat weapon for models with True Grit, then it explains where the close combat weapon came from.


Back on subject, though...

I use Rhinos quite heavily. The effective use of them involves a combination of setup, use of smoke launchers, and the application of cover. Rarely do my Rhinos take much fire. Usually, the predators and vindicator in my army take the brunt of enemy anti-tank punch, and generally, my squads are able to disembark safely wherever I need them. It's not that the people I play against are stupid, by any means, either-- I just effectively use what cover is available to me. If there isn't any, then I get out of the Rhino and form a firing line. Most games involve dense terrain, though-- we tend to use as much as possible around here-- and so maneuvering is much more important than if you're fighting on a plain field.

Rhinos have one other useful function, which a lot of people tend to overlook, or simply not realize. If the squad didn't start in the Rhino because they didn't need it for the game, or they've been dropped off, the Rhino has pretty much served its intended function, agreed? Park it in front of an enemy heavy weapons team so it's basically all they can see. They'll either waste a turn of shooting to destroy the Rhino when they could've been shooting something else that was valuable. Then, even if they destroy it, it's level 3 terrain, so they have to spend at least one turn walking around it, which is another turn they're not doing any effective shooting. I've lost track of how many times that's taken the heat off of my Marines as they advance. Annoys the fool out of anti-infantry squads, too, since AV11 is good enough to withstand a lot of lighter, albeit higher volume fire. If they can't do anything to it, you can just keep moving it to block their line of sight. It's a dick move, but it works exceptionally well.

Razorbacks, on the other hand, are less useful in my opinion. Admittedly, that's largely because I don't believe in bringing under-strength squads, which are the only ones who can make use of the Razorback. Guilliman said ten-strong squads for a damned good reason. That being said, they are decent light tanks, and are often not the target of priority for anti-tank squads, so they tend to last longer than their modest armor might suggest. Even a Razorback with a twin heavy bolter can do some damage, although it's of less use against Space Marines, in my opinion, when a Predator Destructor is only marginally more expensive. Heavy bolters are worth their weight in gold against horde armies, so if you're not using a squad's transport option and you've brought an understrength unit, Razorbacks are an effective way to get more heavy weapons on the table without compromising your Heavy Support allotment.
 

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There seem to be many more attractive alternatives to razorbacks for codex marines at the moment. Dreadnaughts, land speeders and terminators for example cn all carry mobile heavy weapons outside of your heavy support allocation and all are scoring units. Meanwhile the razorback is heavily compromised as a transport.

I think that they may become more interesting in the rumoured 5th edition and if there's a new SM codex to go with it. A cost reduced to 50 points and only troops counting as scoring might make all the difference. Currently, transports like razorbacks and wave serpents are crippled by their inability to score, but it is rumoured that the whole scoring system will be altered quite heavily in 5th.

On the (totally off topic) subject of true grit, just read what it says in the BBB and relevent codex. In general it means that you will get an extra attack for a second weapon but not +1 attack for charging.

In any case, it's a rule I don't expect to survive. Chaos have already lost it (well, been given something better), the space wolf book is now officially out of print, the SM codex will probably be re-done within a year and, hopefully, so will Grey Knights.
 

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True dat. I find if you have juicier targets to shoot like Predators or Dreadnaughts, your Rhinos will be able to advance unscathed most likely. Not to mention, they have smoke launchers in the off chance that whoever you fight decides to shoot at them. :grin: The only problem is..... Your predators and dreads need to survive too, so hopefully your Rhino does get some attention off of them as long as you move them up and fast. Thats what I try to do anyway. My cheap Rhinos try to cause a distraction and give my heavy weapons a chance to take stuff down. If the Rhino survives, they unload and then proceed to unload their two storm bolters into whatever they can. :grin:
 

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i personally think that rhinos are a very good transport. theyre more effective than a chimera for example, and theyre cheaper now too. also, if you have say, three preds in your army and two rhinos, the rhinos wont become a mobile coffin so fast.
It depends what you use your Rhino for, IG use Chimeras as fire support, and the Rhino definitely sucks in that regard.
 

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no grey hunters have a bolter standard and can have a cc weapon for a few points

they get 1 for charging and 1 for a cc weapon the bolter cant be fired in combat. im just wondering do people have there grey hunters wiht a bolter and a chainsword ot just a bolter
>> No, they pay xpts for the bolter, the ccw and bolt pistol are standard. They dont get 1 attack for charging, but gain 1 attack for the bolter, as true grit makes the weapon count as a pistol in cc. I have my GH with bolters and ccws.
 

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>> No, they pay xpts for the bolter, the ccw and bolt pistol are standard. They dont get 1 attack for charging, but gain 1 attack for the bolter, as true grit makes the weapon count as a pistol in cc. I have my GH with bolters and ccws.
so i should mail order me some 10 chainsaws snap off arms glue overs on :p

the points cost would be a worth while bennifit
 
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