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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
I'm struggling with my space marines. A lot. I've had them since their 5th edition codex, and I've yet to have major success with them. I don't really know what to do with them. Below is a list of all my space marine models, and I'm trying to make a solid list using mainly the stuff that I have. Below my list of owned models is a list idea of my own, I'm not asking for you guys to make me a list, I'm just providing what models I have access to. I'm ok with buying a few more boxes (as you'll see in my list idea), but I'd like to avoid purchasing an entire armies worth of models.


HQ:
Captain/CM, storm shield, bike
Lysander
Chaplain, power armour, plasma pistol
Captain/CM, power sword, combi-plas
kit-bashed tiggy (so could be a normal libby)
Libby, termi armour, force axe, storm shield
Techmarine, conversion beamer
command squad on foot

Elites:
3x rifleman dreadnoughts, additional melta, CCW, plasma, flamer arms
6x legion of the damned, multi-melta, meltagun, combi-melta on sgt, flamer
10x Sternguard
5x terminator squad, chainfist, assault cannon
5x terminator squad, CML

Troops:
10x scouts, sniper rifles
5x scouts, CCW + BP
30x tactical marines, various special + heavy weapons available

Transports:
1 rhino
1 rhino/razorback
1 drop pod

Fast Attack:
6x bikers, 4x meltas. might have grav/plasma guns lying around for them
5x assault marines

Heavy Support:
Centurion Dev squad, currently modeled with grav, but have all the bits
Dev squad, 4x lascannons, 2x plasma cannons, a few missile launchers
Land Raider Crusader/Redeemer, removable multi-melta
Predator, tri-las
TFC + techmarine
Vindicator w dozerblade/seige shield
ADL + quad gun

As you can see I have a decent amount of stuff, save transports. They are all painted up as crimson fists, but I'm honestly OK with using any chapter tactics. The main problem I seem to be having is not enough firepower, or that my shots always just seem to bounce and do minimal damage. My main opponents are blood angels, space marines, tau, eldar, grey knights, orks and imperial guard. Half of these are just corner camping ADL bubble wrapped gunline lists. Some unit/combos I'm considering, or have worked well for me in the past are as follows:

Bike captain w hunters eye + special weapon biker command squad
captain w hunters eye + centurion dev squad
termi libby + podding sternguard
lascannon or plasma cannon dev squad
legion with multi-melta, melta gun and combi melta
Iron hands biker command squad for t5 4+ fnp fast special weapon squad

I've come up with an idea for a list. I'd have to purchase more bikes, but I'm ok with that. Its based around a (hopefully) solid core of 20x tactical marines in rhinos and 2 squads of grav bikes. List is below. Its split up into two different CADs, using IF and WS chapter tactics to benefit respective units.

Imperial Fists CAD:
Librarian, ml2, force sword, bike 110
5x Legion of the Damned, Multi-melta, melta-gun, combi-melta 155
10x sternguard, drop pod 255
10x tactical squad, plasma gun, rhino w dozer blade 195
10x tactical squad, plasma gun, rhino w dozer blade 195
5x Dev squad, 4x lascannon 150
1x TFC 100
1x whirlwind 65
.
White Scars CAD:
Captain, 2+, storm shield, Hunter's Eye 145
Librarian, ml2, force sword, bike 110
5x bike squad, 2x grav guns 135
5x bike squad, 2x grav guns 135

Totals to 1750 exactly. The WS captain joins up with the dev squad to make a unit of cover ignoring tank hunting lascannons. each librarian joins a bike squad and rolls on telepathy mainly for psychic scream (wouldnt say no to invisibility though). Some things I'm worried about are whether or not its actually a good idea to invest 365 points in 3 HQ models. Also, outside of the LotD and dev squad, I don't seem to have a lot of anti tank, so if I faced an armored wall list I might struggle. Lastly, I don't have any anti-air. I've considered bringing a single stormtalon with skyhammer to help with anti-transport and anti-flier, but I'd have to find the points and a single 2hp flier will die to a stiff breeze, so I'm not sure.

Sorry about the long post, let me know what you think
-Arcticor
 

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I'd have to find the points and a single 2hp flier will die to a stiff breeze, so I'm not sure.
It all depends on which Flier comes on first. You always want to come on second so you have the edge shooting.

I don't seem to have a lot of anti tank, so if I faced an armored wall list I might struggle.
Don't forget about all that grav on your bikes, it's worth including in that list.

Are you married to the idea of LotD in the list? I've never really got the draw of them personally. That and the lone Whirlwind would be the first two things I'd look at switching up if you want to address any of your list's alleged failings. A second Devastator squad handles any armour worries or, if you're feeling randy with the spending, a Stormraven would really solve that anti-air and -armour role. I noticed the Stormtalon wasn't in your list of models either owned so figured I'd toss it out there.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Hey ntaw, thanks.

If I drop the LotD and WW, that gives me 220 points to play around with. What are your thoughts on two storm talons vs one storm raven? quantity vs quality? The $$ cost is about the same for the two, thats not a huge issue. The list prototype looks like this:

Imperial Fists CAD:
Librarian, ml2, bike, power sword, auspex 115
9x sternvets, drop pod 233
10x tactical squad, plasmagun, rhino, dozerblade 195
10x tactical squad, plasmagun, rhino, dozerblade 195
Stormtalon, skyhammer 115
Stormtalon, skyhammer 115
5x Devastator squad, 4x lascannons 150
1x TFC 100

White Scars CAD:
Captain, 2+ 3++, hunters eye 145
Librarian, ml2, bike, power sword, auspex 115
5x bike squad, 2x grav guns 135
5x bike squad, 2x grav guns 135

I had to drop a sternguard because of points issues, and then gave both librarians an auspex because I had 10 points left over. Stormtalons put out 7 s6-7 shots each, which should be enough to deal with transports (which is why i'm leaning slightly in their favor against the stormraven, but idk). Thoughts?
-Arcticor
 

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Fuck there's a lost post. Ah well. Short version is PotMS makes Stormravens with LC/MM combos better at blowing up multiple transports than a dozen S6/7 AP4 shots thanks to the current state of vehicles but two Fliers are better than one, provided of course your opponent's movements align with your flying skills).

I like this list more, were I to change anything I would swap the Talons for a Raven and drop the dozer blades and auspex's to toss 50 points at your Sternguard. Alternately, I would drop the above upgrades and a member of the Sternguard to put some combi-meltas in there to further assist with the "oh crap I need that dead before it shoots" thing that happens from time to time.
 

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Hey, as an IF player I thought I would
chime in.

First thing I noticed is that white scar captain teaming with IF devastators. Unfortunately I believe you'll lose tank hunters due to the mix of chapter tactics. So I would rethink that. Personally I would go all IF and drop the scars of go another route with the scars.

In my experience it took me over a year to start winning with my marines. My main army is tryanids and they just play so differently. I had to really change my playstyle to do well with marines.

I've found the new codex really allows tactical marines to do well - especially with the gladius strike force. Those doctrines really make the mediocre space marine into a much more efficient unit. I feel in the past people relied heavily on biker units and occasionally TH/SS terminators with scouts as troops because tactical marines were so overwhelming and their transports often resulted in a bunch of underwhelming tanks that ate up a lot of points. With the double Demi company this issue is avoided. I could understand completely though why you might not want to go double (especially with only 3 transports owned currently). However I think you easily have the backbone for a single Demi company for a gladius strike force to take advantage of the doctrines.

Potentially you could run Lysander, your 30 tacticals, a FA unit (bikes possibly) and your las devestators for your tank hunting. Then for auxiliary you could use those lovely sternguard and terminators. Allowing you to take advantage of bolter drill with special ammunition.

I think a gladius may help you a lot as in my experience the IF chapter tactics are underwhelming compared to some of the other tactics but pairs nicely with the the doctrines and mass amount of bolters the Demi company requires you to take.

I'm sorry you haven't had much luck in the past. For me I had to read and watch a lot of battle reports from good marine players to really see how to play the army.

Just my two cents.
 

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I'd halve the size of the tac squads. Unless you're set on taking a special AND a heavy weapon, then personally I run 5 man tacs in Rhinos with a Special weapon and a combi-weapon of the same variety (Usually plasma / combi-plas).

Sacking off ten marines hould free you up enough points for the aforementioned combi-weapons, and possibly a rifleman dread? Can't really go wrong with a rifleman dread. Don't bother with Venerable.

Also I tend to throw spare points into a second storm bolter for my Rhinos, as for 5 points for 2 S4 AP 5 BS4 shots you can't really complain. (Snapshots half the time due to movement, but it works for me).

Now that scouts are BS4 they are pretty damned glorious (Sniper rifles + Heavy bolter with helfire rounds - all the wounds). I tend to run them in the shooty build I just mentioned with a Land Speeder storm for jamming beacon shenanigans / objective grabbing. Don't think the scouts have ever actually gotten in the speeder, but the speeder(s) cause absoloute havoc against drop melta enthusiasts. Well worth the points.

Side note: Get a Land Speeder Storm.
 

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C:SM P189 Second paragraph: "If a unit contains models drawn from two different chapters, it counts as from neither Chapter, and thus benefits from neither Chapter Tactic."

EDIT: Or third paragraph, if you count the blurb at the top xD. It does go on to give an example. Don't recall anything similar in the 6th Ed codex, so may be a relatively new addition.
 

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Think the only time I've even seen it become relevant (and subsequently played it wrong) was when a younger black templars player raheally wanted to attach his jump chaplain to my RG assault marines.

I kept the RG rules, but I don't recall using the BT rules at any point. As it was a vanilla jump chaplain, I don't feel bad ^^

I'm struggling to think of any combos that would really work as most of the rules aren't conferred to the unit, though one of the rules that would is the Raven Guards first turn shrouding.

Though if you really want shrouding, just ally in a RG character with the Armour of Shadows.
 

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Think the only time I've even seen it become relevant (and subsequently played it wrong) was when a younger black templars player raheally wanted to attach his jump chaplain to my RG assault marines.

I kept the RG rules, but I don't recall using the BT rules at any point. As it was a vanilla jump chaplain, I don't feel bad ^^

I'm struggling to think of any combos that would really work as most of the rules aren't conferred to the unit, though one of the rules that would is the Raven Guards first turn shrouding.

Though if you really want shrouding, just ally in a RG character with the Armour of Shadows.
Still get the same if you run FW Raptors chapter tactics too & can have the rending option on bolt pistols & boltguns as well.... just throwing that out there

:angel:
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 · (Edited)
Wow, did not see the new comments until now. The mixing chapter tactics issue kind of throws a wrench in my plans. I do like the idea of using a single demi-company, so I might give that a go. The list below is definitely on the more expensive end of things, but I feel like its solid enough to consider. I'm ok with finding most things second hand which will help with the cost.

Chapter Tactics: Imperial Fists? ultramarines? idk

Battle Demi-Company:
Captain, 2+ 3++, bike 145
10x Tacticals, plasma gun, rhino w dozer 195
10x Tacticals, plasma gun, rhino w dozer 195
10x Tacticals, plasma gun, rhino w dozer 195
5x Devastator Squad, 4x Lascannon 150
5x Bike squad, 2x grav guns 135

Storm Wing:
Stormraven Gunship, TL Multi-melta, TL assault cannon 200
Stormtalon, TL assault cannon, Skyhammer 115
Stormtalon, TL assault cannon, Skyhammer 115

Suppression Force:
2x Landspeeders w multi-meltas 110
3x Whirlwinds 195

I would have to purchase the entirety of the storm wing and suppression force, but I both of those auxiliaries are so useful. I'd like to find room to either get additional bodies in the dev squad for absorbing bullets, and finding 50-70pts for an ADL and comms if I can. Thoughts on the list?
-Arcticor
 
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