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Pretty self-explanatory - are you required to inform your opponent of what is in your transports?

I'm wondering if this tactic could be used in order to use cheap distraction transports that don't contain anything in order to allow transports with troops a better chance to get to the front. Or, alternatively. I could put nasty troops in a smaller transport in an attempt to trick my opponent into shooting a bigger transport with weaker occupants.

But these thoughts would be pretty much negated if I HAVE to tell an opponent who is in what. I think that in order to keep things fair, I could write who is in what on a piece of scrap paper, and put that paper in each transport.

Anyways, what are people's thoughts? I don't recall reading anything about this in the rulebook.
 

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Yes.

Its an old argument with many people trying to use empty rhinos as a 40k equivalent of find the shell game... which is really boring. Basically the easiest way of explaining how it falls down is that to do anything in 40k you must tell your opponent you are doing it... this includes the obvious things such as moving and shooting, but also the less obvious things such as alocating reserve units for outflank/DS or putting them in a transport.

I think its technically correct to say you have to say which transport you have put a unit in but then are under no obligation to remind the opponent if they forget or weren't paying attention... but there is a name for people who do things like that, and it isn't complimentary.
 

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there used to be specific rules saying you didn't have to, it was in, I want to say 3rd or 4th in a sidebar titled 'a note on secrecy', but that;s since gont by the wayside and now at deployment you need to state what units are being deployed inside what transports. Generally I mark it on my army list as well, to avoid any accidental swicheroos

After that point, however, if your opponent can't keep his intel straight that's his problem. But if you;re going to play coy and not remind the enemy who;s in what then you really should write it down just to avoid any accusations
 

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also in 5th as an optional rules example.
 

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I usually state who's where. Additionally I put a mini on the vehicle.

When I play my Sallies, I'd usually have a sarge standing on the top of the rhino, tank-surfing Goto-style. :laugh:

When I play my Orks, I have a Nob riding in the back (there's not much room for anything else there).

Having a mini on the vehicle is a great visual reminder.
 

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I'd say it is common curtosy to let your opponent know whenever they ask. It's just good sportsmanship. We had a guy at my FLGS that played the "I don't have to tell you" game. He had a really hard time finding a game because nobody ever wanted to play with him no matter how much they wanted a game. If you want to keep your contents a secret, that's up to you. Just be forewarned.
 

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BRB pg 121 under Deploying Transport Vehicles states you declare where units are being deployed in-transport.
 

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It's the same as announcing what, if any, units your ICs have joined. Anything along those lines is stated at the deployment.

The sidebar "note on secrecy" has changed to say that you don't have to reveal your written list until the end of the game. You should still say what your units are as well as any special/un-modelable equipment they have.
 

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Pretty self-explanatory - are you required to inform your opponent of what is in your transports?

I'm wondering if this tactic could be used in order to use cheap distraction transports that don't contain anything in order to allow transports with troops a better chance to get to the front. Or, alternatively. I could put nasty troops in a smaller transport in an attempt to trick my opponent into shooting a bigger transport with weaker occupants.

But these thoughts would be pretty much negated if I HAVE to tell an opponent who is in what. I think that in order to keep things fair, I could write who is in what on a piece of scrap paper, and put that paper in each transport.

Anyways, what are people's thoughts? I don't recall reading anything about this in the rulebook.
Until I read on here I didn't realise this was a rule, I've always used this as a ruse, hiding Rhinos carrying Plague Marines in the midst of Rhinos carrying Khorne Beserkers, for example. I've always let my apponent know what forces I was fielding, but as for which Rhinos/other transports are carrying what, it was often something that, whilst I never really necessarily kept secret, I kept under the rug in a sort of "Don't ask don't tell" way.

However, I've rarely been in matches that has involved less the five of my own Rhinos and usually its around eight or nine plus any other transports such as Razorbacks, Land Raiders, Stormravens, etc. I can often maintain that sort of ruse, though, which is less handy for my Blood Angels but more so for my Eldar and Chaos forces.

Though, now I've found out I have too, I guess I'll have to adapt to that.
 

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It used to be up to the players to agree whether to reveal or not, but apparantly someone tried it once on Jervis and he thought it was a no-good, low-down, cheatin'-an'-lyin' skunk move.

So he banned it in the new rulebook.

Fuck you Jervis, fuck you with an unlubricated narrative.
 

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For casual games against strangers full disclosure is the right stance to take.

For me and most gamers I know, we have this thing called Trust (some may have heard of it), so we play it either way, so sometimes we disclose what units are in what transport, and sometimes we don't....no dramas.
 

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we have this thing called Trust (some may have heard of it), so we play it either way, so sometimes we disclose what units are in what transport, and sometimes we don't....no dramas.
Pretty much the same for me too. An astute opponent might work out that my GK's are colour coded to their transports and my SM are numbered the same as their rides, but either way if they want to know I'll generally tell them.
 

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Pretty much the same for me too. An astute opponent might work out that my GK's are colour coded to their transports and my SM are numbered the same as their rides, but either way if they want to know I'll generally tell them.
Yea pretty much the same here as far as unit/transport designation goes. With my Guard army my whole 20K's worth is numbered as per the way it's set out in IA1 - e.g.

III - 1st digit is Company number, 2nd is Squadron no, 3rd is Vehicle no.
There are variations such as using Roman Numerals, Insignias, Names, etc, but the embarked units have matched numbers etc.

Easy peasy:victory:
 

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It's been a requirement to reveal what is in whuch transport all through 5th under 'Note on Secrecy' (and 4th IIRC) and it's a requirement now. Color-coding units really does nothing any more given that units can embark into someone else's dedicated transport. Makes the shell game easier in fact. I've heard the "I write it down" and the "slip of paper under the transport" etc etc. Doesn't matter. If you're required to tell me, then just tell me.

Don't know if the story about Jervis is true or not, but someone did try to pull the old shell game on me at one of the US GTs (which also addresses that 'trust' issue, just how much are you going to trust someone you've never met before). Guess he forgot that I had videotaped the deployment and each movement phase and was able to prove to him that the destroyed trukk was indeed the Warboss and not just boyz as he claimed. So yeah, it is a potential issue and I for one am glad that such rules exist. If you and your opponent want to play secrecy, fine, go for it. However, don't expect me to agree to it.
 

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If you are talking about "required" as meaning what's in the rules the only requirement I can find is in the deployment section, Pg 121. I've not found anything after that that says you must tell them.

Colour Coding works fine for me, as I said I make sure they all match up and in a five turn game I've not ever found the time to play "Musical Rhinos" with my troops.

Most guys around my way play a fairly natural game and few of us sit there calculating the odds to the nth degree before shooting/moving/assaulting whatever.

It's rare that anyone would ask me what was in a vehicle when making a targeting choice, most of the time who tells who what and were and why and when is not all that much of a concern.
 

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our local group is pretty much the same and I admit, I don't worry about it too much there. But given that we don't have a local store (we play in a sports bar) and I do travel to stores in the area for both open gaming and events, well, then I don't have that same level of trust.

BTW, page 118, A Note on Secrecy; "and always make it clear to your opponent which squads are embarked in which Transports." Same as 5th, you gotta tell if asked.
 

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fair enough, Pg 118 does however say "should" where as the Deployment bit says that declaring to your opponent is a requirement.
 

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Im not sure as far as an official rule goes, but i guess everyone is saying, you have to tell. but lets look at a few things:

showing someone/newbie/friendly game - show them, remind them, be very clear. dont dick over a new player when you are trying to sucker... er. get them into the warhammer universe, its just rude and unfriendly

rival match/playing a regular - i think you can both put aside your egos, or manhood aside and agree on a rule. you wanna be secretive, so be it, if not, so be it, but agree from the beginning of the game, and make sure there is no accusations, cheating, the lot..

tournament - play by the rules, be VERY clear, mention where you stuff is from the beginning

'ard boyz tourny - don't ask, dont tell. :eek:k:

but seriously, comes down to dont be that guy nobody wants to play.
 

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Guess he forgot that I had videotaped the deployment and each movement phase and was able to prove to him that the destroyed trukk was indeed the Warboss and not just boyz as he claimed
Do you do that at all your tournaments or did it just happen you saw this guy and said, "wow he looks sketchy, I don't trust him". Did you have the video camera out, or was it a secret hidden spy camera???
 

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If I was needing to have a video referee for my games I'd be wondering how much of the fun element I was having.
 
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