I appologise for my ignorance on this matter but whats an AC do tell:victory:.

 

I like how the OP generously concedes that it would take 4-5 hits to kill it with the main guns of a frigging titan to kill it.

 

They are of similar size, and from what I can judge, similar armor defense

thats a joke right?

a reaver is bigger than even the largest buildings in the AC series, while an AC is only a few stories tall next to a building

and armour wise an AC is damaged by large caliber MG rounds easily and builds up enormous heat from it, a Reaver would fire shells as big as an AC with little to no heat build-up from either firing or receiving damage

yes an AC can outmanouver any titan, but won't do a thing damage wise, and as soon as it is hit, its gone.

the difference is too huge

 

Excellent! someone to add some input.

My argument for size being similar stems from the fact that AC series buildings are truly immense and composed of countless stories if you look closely, and thus even dwarf Reever titans which are the titans in question, though surely an imperator would dwarf the buildings. In addition, when I compared a Reever titan model to an imperial Leman Russ on tabletop, and an AC to a military tank in-game, they seemed to share the same proportions.

As for MG, I'm afraid I don't understand whether you mean minnigun or meltagun, as there are no meltaguns in the AC universe, and the scale of miniguns used in the AC universe are similar to the gatling blaster carried by the Reever titan in proportion, a weapon which is more than capable of damaging Reever Titans. On top of this AC's also carry enormous missile based weapons, plasma weapons, and laser weapons all of which roughly equate what the RT has at it's disposal, all of which are more than capable of damaging the Reever Titan severely.

As an aside, as the sizes are quite similar, it is highly unlikely that the RT has any weapons that fire shells the size of an AC, and there are currently none listed in the fluff, as it would be rather silly if the titan had a shell on its back the same size as it.


It seems to be a classic matchup of maneuverability and finess versus durability, as both seem to carry equally as potent weapons.

 

As for MG, I'm afraid I don't understand whether you mean minnigun or meltagun

neither, I'm refering to Machine Gun, thats what MG has meant since Machine Guns existed

and the scale of miniguns used in the AC universe are similar to the gatling blaster carried by the Reever titan in proportion,

thats not possible, the average armoured core is over 30feet high in reality (if it was to exist based on a 1:72 model being 140mm tall tall, so if I'm right a 1/1 model would be 30 feet) a reaver titan is between 120-150 feet, so your saying a vehicle 4 to 5 times smaller than a reaver titan has weapons similar to something 4-5 times bigger?

a weapon which is more than capable of damaging Reever Titans. On top of this AC's also carry enormous missile based weapons, plasma weapons, and laser weapons all of which roughly equate what the RT has at it's disposal, all of which are more than capable of damaging the Reever Titan severely.

lascannons, meltaguns, plasma guns all have a very hard time even scratching a warhound titans paint, nevermind a reavers, an AC would have just as much difficulty, if not more since there only mounted on a 30foot vehicle

As an aside, as the sizes are quite similar, it is highly unlikely that the RT has any weapons that fire shells the size of an AC, and there are currently none listed in the fluff, as it would be rather silly if the titan had a shell on its back the same size as it.

see above

 

I'm not entirely sure what Armored Core is but i will presume it is similar to Gundams, and one thing, if the AC will run circles around the Reaver, he doesn't have to turn, aims at one spot where the AC passes and fires at the right moment:victory:

 

I apologise, I should have been more precise to circumvent such assumptions, I meant the AC could maintain a speed where he could remain behind the Titan, 'running circles' in order to keep up with the titan's rotations (Aka, titan can't bring guns to bear because the AC is out of it's line of site, and therefore is incapable of shooting it).

Oh, and to an extent they are alike Gundams, but (and I daresay this) seemingly more realistic.

 

The AC everytime, they are about 10 stories high (they roll over cars without noticing) so I think they would stand about 20" tall on a 40k board and they way I build them they would have to count as flyers- I take to the air and missile the hell outta enemies, dont often need to land to recharge and could choose to do that well out of range of the titan (would have to have a movement rate of something like 100" a turn).
It might just about be able to hide behind the reaver but it wouldnt be easy- even the fastest ACs dont turn very quickly (unless AC4 has seen some better upgrades).

Its the old matchup- back on AC1 by friend would always use 'tank ACs' to smash me, until I stopped trying to out tank him and just used mobility- if you cant hit the enemy you cant kill them.... I think a laser blade would have to be S10, add in the bonusses to turbo-boosting and blading (or 'dive-bombing' with it) and you should probably be doing strength D hits.

 

The AC everytime, they are about 10 stories high

they are not 90-100 feet, which is equal to 10 stories, I think people need to stop guessing or exaggerating and actually work it out, if a 1/72 model is 140mm tall, figure out how tall that is in 1/1, which I think is about 30feet +

 

I dont care what any of you say, an Angry Titan could whip ANYTHING's ass. No NEXT has a chance in hell against an Angry Titan.

Also, Armored COre is fun, but one hit from a Volcano Cannon and its all over, while the NEXT has to wait twelve hours for its guns to reload. It probably wouldn't have enough shots to bring down a Reaver anyway.

 

thank you for bringing that to our attention Stella, you are right, it is shorter if that is the ratio, my mistake.

So the question is, can the Armored Core unit evade the Titan long enough to kill it?

As the weapons it carries are certainly more potent than a dreanoughts, and a lascannon, if fired at the rear of a titan enough time will kill it. An AC certainly must carry more than enough fire power to take down a Titan, I see it as simply, do you think the AC is fast and agile enough to avoid the Titan's weapons as it slowly tears it apart? with the size differences I am beginning to see a picture of the AC just landing on the titan's back and cutting/shooting it's way in while the titan desperately tries to shake it off... which is almost impossible as it can't reach back there and isn't exactly a bronco... especially when the AC has it's sword embedded in it's back and a hand full of power cables while it burns it's way into the Titan's core...

Oh and you must forgive me Stella, I only made the MG assumption as a) the short form MG automatically comes up as meltagun etc when you pan over it, and b) all to many 40K devotees call the gatling blaster a minnigun

PS That isn't a Reever Titan, Iron Angel, but it did make me laugh (Angry Marine Launcher! eheh)

 

Even as a fan of the Armored Core series... the Reaver would kick an ACs metal arse, I believe.

Even a NEXT, which has the pilot's psyche directly hooked up to the mech itself, granting superioir control, we must face the facts.
A Reaver titan is much larger than a measly AC. Seriously, in AC 4, ordinary tanks are pretty much as big as its feet.
Its weapons may be moddable, but the Reaver is huge. Even hits with the powerfullest AC ballistic and energy weapons would probably have as much luck as other weaponry.

Also, An AC can't stay in the air indefinitely. Its reactor has to have time to cool down and regenerate energy cells from time to time, making it a cumbersome walker.
Reaver aims and fries it.

End of battle.

EDIT:
Now that I have read some more of teh comments... the AC and Reaver seem more or less matched. The AC could land on the thing's back... damn, now the ACs smallness is a good thing!

Wait! What if Creed used Tactical genius to hide the Titan behind a pebble?! THE AC WOULD GET FRIED!

 

Wait! What if Creed used Tactical genius to hide the Titan behind a pebble?! THE AC WOULD GET FRIED!

CREEEEEEEEED!

Id like to see a AC turboboosting stable through a near miss titangrade weapon shockwave.

 

Great thread! I love seeing everyone get so fired up!

It sounds to me like putting a doberman up against a chihuahua.

I'd back the reaver, assuming the fight doesn't start with the AC under the friggin titan, the closing of distance (with a priceps in the fluid womb) would be the end of it. Also, according to the fluff I've read, you can't pass through void shields so at best an AC could land on the titans void shields; slide off and be on the ground again unable to damage the behemoth.

 

The fluff which you read has to be incorrect, because there are numerous examples in both the old Epic: Space Marine game and in the Apocolypse rules where void shields don't prevent units from moving through them, and most of the examples of moving through void fields are to attack a titan in close combat.

Edit: As demonstration, the Terminator Titanhammer datasheet in which the fluff paragraph describes a unit of terminators teleporting within the void shields of a renegade titan and then charging other nearby titans.

 

That brings up in interesting point Epic Fail, how all-encompasing is the void shield? It's supposed to cover the entirety of the Titan's body, but what of the ground? As in, why isn't the Titan rolling around in a giant void shield gerbil ball? I always wondered whether it worked a little like a 'Dune' shield in which it only blocked high speed objects, whereas slower ones were allowed through (how is oxygen etc and area terrain allowed through for example?). If nothing is allowed through then things look pretty grim for the AC, as the only way I can see it prevailing is literally leaping on the ponderous Reever (relatively easy feat for any AC pilot worth his salt) and cutting/blasting its way in once under the shield. Otherwise, the AC would have to strip off all 4 void shields before it could start laying in any pain.

 

Ok, are we talking about 'Ravens/ACs' or 'Lynx/Nexts'

Theres a strong difference in the two.

You should watch the opening movie on 'Armored core For answer' to get the idea of the size scale of the Nexts/ACs

Either way, the supieror abilities of the ACs/Nexts would win over the Reavers. I mean, have you seen the potential size of some of the 'Arms Forts' in 'AC for answer'?

The Nexts/ACs are what would be next in the chronological line after Reavers, which is odd, seeing as ACs are much more technologically advanced than Anything in the imperial arsenal, yet the games of AC4 and ACFA are set in the 3rd Millenium, not the 40,000th.

ARMORED CORE FTW!

 

the titan could step on an ac and destroy it instantly, or unload that massive missile array on it's back and carpet the general area with enough explosives to destroy it. Plus no ac weapon has the punch to penetrate titan armor.

 

That was what I was thinking Orichi, I mean, sure, they may be smaller, but damn, their technology makes a Titan seem obsolete, which is why I wonder, would the brute strength of the Titan be able to win out over the superior technology, maneuverability, and pilot cohesion of the AC/Next.

They certainly are the next step after the Titan, after all, they are little more than walking weapons platforms.

Oh, and at Ironhammer, the Reever isn't so big that it could step on an AC/Next.

PS, I just watched the opening, so badass. And it reminds me, the Nexts use an energy field as well, the Kojim (spelling?) Particle field if I'm not mistaken, which gives it a good deal of protection, adding onto its defense properties. Hmmm... maybe things aren't as grim for the AC after all... It's also mentionable that the Nexts have rather advanced plasma and laser weapons at their disposal... Perhaps this fight isn't quite so one-sided... And if it can penetrate that void shield... I see it being game over for the Reever, because that superior maneuverability in comparison to the ponderous motions of the Titan could be the Reevers death sentence.

 

The only weapon a Next could possibly use that would elicit more than a hearty laugh from a Titan is Kojima cannons, which will end up leaving the next completely without its energy fields, and the weapons have to charge. Nice big energy source to lock on to, and boom, a million missiles streak through the air and leave the entire battlefield (And the NEXT) a giant crater. Teh end. And that Next better hope it can get behind it, a direct hit from basically any weapon on a Titan will pretty much spell the Next's death.

 

there's a passage in Titanicus (novel) where sand was blowing against the voids and making a loud shearing noise, that's the entirety of my fluff research.

I'm sure there's just as many passages in there that contradict this too.

 

I think Void Shields selectively recognize projectiles and small objects, but not large ones. Since some missiles and artillery are larger than infantry though, I guess its just slective about ANYTHING that tries to go through it, which would mean AC landing is still a no-go.

 

First of all, I am happily surprised by the amount of discussion taking place regarding this unlikely match up.

Secondly, We have to do what we can with what is provided for us, essentially a cross-reference of 40K fluff and tabletop representation with Armored Core in-game demonstrations of scale and weapons schematics. It is no doubt difficult given that neither systems engage anything like what the other has to offer (debatable as in Armored Core series one does face off against a number of larger, more cumbersome heavily armed opponents) but again, we must make do with what we have.



If the void shield was selective to the point that it would prevent for example, a NEXT to pass through, then terminators wouldn't have been able to pass through it, and, now that I think about it, the Gargant in "Crusade for Armageddon" wouldn't have been able to just punch the Warlord Titan in the face without resistance.

I'm not buying the, "Nexts can't carry anything big enough to hurt a titan," arguement. Lascannons? Man-portable in the 40K universe, and the AC universe has it's equivilant. CC weapons? AC: For Answer has a laserblade that can one shot other ACs (lighter Nexts, but a one shot kill can be achieved). It is quite possible to peg rear armor shots with an autocannon and score pens, not to mention that autocannons (in my opinion) are one of the best ways to drop void shields, and those also are man portable in the 40K universe, and there are equivilants (I'd dare to even say heavier) in the AC universe.

The major disadvantage that the AC has is range. The range of an AC's weapons isn't nearly that of the reaver (going by fluff here, not table top).

So, my answer to the, "who would win?" question is this: It's situational. If the AC can fight the reaver in a confined area with lots of LOS blocking terrain, I'd say the reaver's going to have a very bad day.

If the reaver can engage the AC in a more open environment, especially at range, then the AC explodes after a hit or two.

I have to say I agree, the ACs/Nexts carry weapons of greater magnitude than lascannons and certainly more so than autocannons (Also notable that many of the machine guns carried by NEXTS which are of greater magnitude than autocannons also have a much higher RoF), both of which are capable of damaging Titans, and the laser blade is most certainly powerful enough to penetrate its armor if you compare to the one hit damage it inflicts on everything (perhaps even hamstring the Titan?.. Something tells me Titans can't crawl...)
But most definitely, if they started far away from one another, or the NEXT didn't get the jump on the Titan (death from the skies?) then I see the NEXT being turned into scrap metal.

I think your confusing game with fluff wraithian, in fluff terms lascannons and autocannons would do bugger all to a Titan (unless your a certain ultramarine devvie squad in the new codex who took down a warlord, but thats GW's hard on for marines), game terms sure they might manage it, but this is fluff were talking about, not game.

By this statement you are suggesting that tabletop representations of stats are irrelevant? And fluff that I've read "Crusade for Armageddon" for example, seems to suggest otherwise.

I have only one thing to say on this matter; I hate vs. threads.

-Ignores-

That's part of the problem--consistency. If you go with one author of one codex/2nd ed codeci/black library (regardless of it's "canon" qualifications), you can come up with either conclusion. It comes with the territory of trying to bash two seperate universes together who have absolutely zero in common (40K fluff is pretty vague and the game mechanics are pretty abstract, while AC uses, "real world," physics in it's mechanics, and relies on that to build the game where the fluff fails [which is frequently--not the most fulfilling story line in the AC games], let alone one is a D6 based game, whilst the other is a video game with no table top analog).

Quite true, hopefully we can surmount this barrier and come to some general agreement.

I have played all the AC games and I must have missed something, the next always seemed really small like double the size of a dread.
In AC 4 in the map with buildings the nexts is up to the 3rd floor, I am sure a titan is larger than that.
If the Imperium is able to deal with the fast Eldar titans I am sure they will be able to beat a next.
I see Next as just a bigger version of the Tau Battlesuits.
After looking up the stats of the Next weapons in the game they just look upscaled version of modern day weapons.

Well given that in-game it's quite common for an AC/NEXT to accidentally step on a car or tank, it would suggest that they are much bigger than a dreadnought. In addition, I don't believe 'modern day' weapons include plasma cannons and advanced wide aperture laser weaponry, and the same degree of missile technology demonstrated in the game, but that's just me, maybe I'm missing something.

THe one problem with the "Ac can get behind Titan" argument is that the titan's missiles track. Meaning, either you can A: Stay behind the Titan, get hit by missiles, and die, or B: Get out from behind the titan, get hit by missiles, and die.

I would tend to agree with this, except that well, the carapace mounted missile track has a large minimum range, all the NEXT has to do is stay close to the Titan's back, and the missile track is useless, unless the Titan wants to blow off it's own back before it can get to the AC...

 

I'm not buying the, "Nexts can't carry anything big enough to hurt a titan," arguement. Lascannons? Man-portable in the 40K universe, and the AC universe has it's equivilant. CC weapons? AC: For Answer has a laserblade that can one shot other ACs (lighter Nexts, but a one shot kill can be achieved). It is quite possible to peg rear armor shots with an autocannon and score pens, not to mention that autocannons (in my opinion) are one of the best ways to drop void shields, and those also are man portable in the 40K universe, and there are equivilants (I'd dare to even say heavier) in the AC universe.

The major disadvantage that the AC has is range. The range of an AC's weapons isn't nearly that of the reaver (going by fluff here, not table top).

So, my answer to the, "who would win?" question is this: It's situational. If the AC can fight the reaver in a confined area with lots of LOS blocking terrain, I'd say the reaver's going to have a very bad day.

If the reaver can engage the AC in a more open environment, especially at range, then the AC explodes after a hit or two.

 

I think your confusing game with fluff wraithian, in fluff terms lascannons and autocannons would do bugger all to a Titan (unless your a certain ultramarine devvie squad in the new codex who took down a warlord, but thats GW's hard on for marines), game terms sure they might manage it, but this is fluff were talking about, not game.

 

That's part of the problem--consistency. If you go with one author of one codex/2nd ed codeci/black library (regardless of it's "canon" qualifications), you can come up with either conclusion. It comes with the territory of trying to bash two seperate universes together who have absolutely zero in common (40K fluff is pretty vague and the game mechanics are pretty abstract, while AC uses, "real world," physics in it's mechanics, and relies on that to build the game where the fluff fails [which is frequently--not the most fulfilling story line in the AC games], let alone one is a D6 based game, whilst the other is a video game with no table top analog).

I have only one thing to say on this matter; I hate vs. threads.

I'm glad you could go out of your way for such a productive statement. If you don't like it, don't read it. Either way, trolling is frowned on. :wink:

 

I have only one thing to say on this matter; I hate vs. threads.

 

I have played all the AC games and I must have missed something, the next always seemed really small like double the size of a dread.
In AC 4 in the map with buildings the nexts is up to the 3rd floor, I am sure a titan is larger than that.
If the Imperium is able to deal with the fast Eldar titans I am sure they will be able to beat a next.
I see Next as just a bigger version of the Tau Battlesuits.
After looking up the stats of the Next weapons in the game they just look upscaled version of modern day weapons.

 

THe one problem with the "Ac can get behind Titan" argument is that the titan's missiles track. Meaning, either you can A: Stay behind the Titan, get hit by missiles, and die, or B: Get out from behind the titan, get hit by missiles, and die.

 

Well... the ACs in "Armored Core: For Answer" (I think that's the latest) do take on some MASSIVE machines on their own and destroy them... so... yeah.

 

The four legged CR-C75U2 Delta AC model which is sitting in my room is about 6" tall, and since the model claims to be 1/72 scale, that puts it at about 36 feet tall. Taking size information from a random site, a Warhound is about 70 feet, a Reaver is about 130 feet, and a Warlord is about 180 to 200 feet tall.

I think that the safe thing to say is that an AC wouldn't take anything bigger than a Warhound on head on, but I could see someone writing up the mission for an AC to take out a Reaver with just a few dramatic coincidences and a whole lot of cover.