Red Paint Job.

1704 Views 39 Replies 11 Participants Last post by DeathKlokk, Sep 16, 2010

Winterous

Discussion Starter · Sep 16, 2010 (Edited)

I'M NOT SAYING THIS RULING IS RAW, IT'S JUST A FAIR, SIMPLE RULING WHICH WORKS FAR BETTER THAN ANYTHING THAT CAN BE CONSTRUED AS RAW.

Talthewicked said:
The only question that I would ask if I were playing an Ork player would be " What speed did you move, combat speed or cruising speed?" That is all I would need to know.

This seems to me to be the fairest, and simplest, way to play the rule.
You get a 'bonus' 1" move; if you choose to ignore it, you move as normal, if you choose to use it, you move an extra 1", but discount the extra move from your total distance moved.
So if you move 7", you can choose to either count as moving at Cruising or Combat, depending on what you decide.

Thanks Talthewicked

*original post begins here*

Red Paint Job is a glorious upgrade, however, it seems some people disagree with me on how it works, RAW.

Ork vehicles with Red Paint Job add +1 to their move in the Movement phase but do not incur penalties for this extra inch. For example, a vehicle could move 13" and still count as moving 12".

That's the wording of the rule.

RAW, not necessarily RAI, that means you can move 1" extra distance, and ignore all penalties for doing so, as it says in the rule.
That means you can move 7", be hit on 6+ in melee the next turn, and fire 1 primary and all secondary weapons, as though you had moved 1" less.

Some people disagree with me on this, proposing that you simply can move 1" extra, but discount that extra movement for all purposes.
This is wrong, since if you can only move 7" maximum, that means you CANNOT get the 6+ to hit in melee benefit; this in itself is a penalty, and in the wording of the rule, it says you do not incur any penalties for the extra movement bonus; a direct contradiction of the wording of the rule, regardless of whether that is the intended function.

So there are only two sensible conclusions to draw.
1. What I stated above, 1" extra movement, ignoring all penalties, as the rule actually says you do.
2. You can move 1" extra, and that counts for all purposes (allowing non-fast vehicles to move Flat Out), which doesn't follow the wording of the rules at all, but doesn't directly contradict it like my opposition's proposal.

Discuss, please.

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KingOfCheese

· #2 · Sep 16, 2010

*facepalm*
Did we really need ANOTHER thread to discuss the same argument all over again?

You move the vehicle whatever distance you want to move. The vehicle is treated as having moved at this speed. Then, give the vehicle a little nudge 1" forward.

Seriously, it counts as moving at either combat speed or cruising speed. You cant just pick the best of both.
Seriously, its 5 points, and its PAINT. Its not supposed to be "OMFGWTFBBQ UBER CHEESY SHOOTY MOVEMENT THINGY UPGRADE".

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KingOfCheese

· #8 · Sep 16, 2010

This is going to be the same as the other thread.

90% of people are going to say it just adds 1" movement without counting as moving the extra inch, while you are going to try and push them to believe you can cheese the rules.

There is no point to the thread when the rule wording is slightly vague, and nobody is going to change their beliefs on the rule. Im sure that people have better things to do with their lives than argue about an inconclusive rule regarding wardollies.

Just play the game in a fair way that both players can enjoy, rather than trying to exploit dodgy rules in your favor.

Seriously.
/end thread.

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KingOfCheese

· #11 · Sep 16, 2010

Winterous said:
@KingOfCheese, playing the rules in a way that is fair to both players is NOT what you're suggesting, you're suggesting a flawed conclusion which directly contradicts the wording of the rule in question, and also gives an unfair situation to the Ork player, where they can get a vulnerability for no reason.

I AM the Ork player at my local club, and im a cheesy bastard, but even i wouldnt try to claim the benefits of both combat and cruising speeds.

Aramoro and I arent going to change our opinions, your not going to change yours, nobody else is going to change theirs, now please for the love of god can we drop this pointless argument already? :headbutt:

For anyone else that hasnt seen the other thread with the argument in it, have a look...
http://www.heresy-online.net/forums/showthread.php?t=71088

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KingOfCheese

· #15 · Sep 16, 2010 (Edited)

Winterous said:
You can move normally, and go "Hey look at me, my RPJ isn't doing anything "
And then you have the option to add 1" to your movement, and count as not having moved that extra 1".
Hmm, I think this may be the best interpretation to use...
*adds to OP*

Which is what i have been saying from the beginning.

KingOfCheese said:
You move the vehicle whatever distance you want to move. The vehicle is treated as having moved at this speed. Then, give the vehicle a little nudge 1" forward.

So you were passionate about your beliefs and spoke to Aramoro and I using fowl language insisting you were right, and then in the end you agree with us....

I dont appreciate this kind of abuse.
What makes it worse is that in the end you agreed with me.
Can I have an apology?

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KingOfCheese

· #22 · Sep 16, 2010 (Edited)

Winterous, I was being rude to you?
I thought i was quite reasonable and calm in comparison to your posts.
Your claiming i called you a retard. Where did i say that?
I never once said anything to personally offend you.

From the start of the argument in the other thread, you were trying to claim that you can move 7" and fire your main weapon and all defensive as it counts as combat speed, which is perfectly fine. But you were trying to say that you ALSO make the opponent hit you on 6+ in combat. Thats trying to abuse the rules to get the best of both.
You were quite passionate that you were correct about this, and went off at Aramoro and I because you would not even consider the facts that we brought forward.

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KingOfCheese

· #25 · Sep 16, 2010

lokis222 said:
So, if you count as having moved 6 inches, you have moved at combat speed, so you are hit on a 4+?

Thats correct.
Winterous was claiming 6+.

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KingOfCheese

· #28 · Sep 16, 2010

Winterous said:
You may have missed my edit or I may have missed something to edit out, but after posting that I realised that you weren't actually being rude, a little condescending (a level of that is acceptable though, we all get heated in an argument ), and the 'retard' thing was a projection of the opinion of me I was detecting in Aramoro's language.

Im glad you realize that.

Winterous said:
I don't believe I 'went off' at Aramoro, but the fact is he wasn't even paying attention to things I said, so I had the right to get annoyed with him.

I dont believe he deserved the -rep that you gave him. He simply stated his opinion, and explained why he believed that he was right, and you -repped him for it.
Not saying that Aramoro wasnt pushy about it, we all were, but there was no reason for the -rep.

Winterous said:
I have since conceded that the best ruling to make on this is neither what I or Aramoro (not sure if you actually did say it) said, but that the RPJ extra movement is optional, so you have the option, when you travel 7", to count as Cruising or Combat speed; a fair, simple ruling.

It says nowhere that they "may" add. It just says that they add 1". There is no "may" in there.
But at least its better than your shooting with 6+ cheesy idea.

Winterous said:
It most certainly is, because, in having RPJ, you are worse off in a particular situation than you would be without it.

That is the penalty, that in certain situations, you are worse off for having the upgrade.

Of course it is. Thats part of the game.
I dont take a Power Fist then complain about striking last and not getting my bonus attack for 2CCW's.
For 5 points, its a bargain.

But anyway, i like that you are using a much more civilized tone now, and that you are starting to see the logic in our posts.

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