[Tyriks]

So, I am just starting to get back into 40k, and I have a strange assortment of models. I'm trying to decide how to build my army effectively, which is hard since I don't have enough currently to field anything. I want to avoid just buying models in the hopes I use them because I'm on a budget. So, what do you guys think are must-haves for a SM army? I haven't settled on a chapter yet, but I'm thinking either a Black Templars or Iron Hands spin-off chapter.

Currently, I have:
10 tactical marines
5 Assault Marines (might make them into Vanguard)
5 assault Terminators
1 Rhino
1 Land Raider Redeemer/Crusader
1 Furioso Dreadnought (hoping people don't mind ignoring that it's a furioso model, haha)
10 BA Death Company (which are in the process of being converted to Sternguard)
4 bikes (one of which will likely end up a Captain)
10 Scouts
Also, apparently I had a SW chaplain or runepriest I had overlooked (which will serve as a chaplain or librarian for now).
Maybe 20 assorted chaos marine models I can pretend aren't chaos for the moment, mostly look like tactical marines but with some Terminators.

So, I know I want Sternguard, some kind of heavy ranged assault, but what have people used (or had used against them) that really shone in combat? I'd like to eventually be able to field a Gladius Strike Force, but I just don't know where to start. Thanks for any advice!

 

[Rush Darling]

Hey Tyriks, welcome back to the hobby!

For a fairly comprehensive overview of space marine units, I thoroughly recommend the 4Chan wiki, as found here: https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Warhammer_40,000/Tactics/Space_Marines(7E)

In terms of looking at what you're missing, personally I'd break it down by force org, so:

HQ -

Elites -
5 Assault Terminators with Land Raider
Dreadnought
Death Company / Sternguard

Troops -
10 Tac marines with Rhino (Extra proxied Tac marines)

Fast Attack -
1 Bike

Heavy Support -

So straight away you can see that you're a bit weak in the HQ, Fast Attack and Heavy Support slots.

Personally I'd recommend a Power armoured libby for a cheap, versatile starter HQ (Sword or staff, not power axe) with some Land Speeders / Bikes / Attack Bikes in the fast attack. Heavy Support depends on your style, I'm a big fan of running three whirlwinds now you can take them in a squadron, but for a starter choice maybe a Predator or a Vindicator might suit your needs, or even a Thunderfire cannon!

Lots of options really, but I'd also definitely invest in a second rhino for your troops, or a Bike Squad if you're going to be taking a character on a bike (character on a bike lets you take bikes as troops).

Hope that helps!

 

[Tyriks]

Thanks for the response! Ah, man, you've given me something to think about. I've actually been avoiding librarians because their powers look... unimpressive. Are they really worth it? I would hate to drop 100+ points on a unit just to get screwed by randomly rolling weaker powers. This isn't to say that I think every power looks weak, but just that each discipline has a few that look like they wouldn't make enough of a difference to be worth it.

 

[Rush Darling]

It does depend on your chapter / style of play. As I play Raven Guard and also happen to have four Devastator squads, now that SM Libbies have access to Divination I like to attach one to improve my Dev squad shooting.

If you've familarised yourself with the way powers work these days, you'll know that by taking all of your powers from the same discipline you'll automatically get the Primaris power, AKA "Psychic focus". With this in mind, it usually helps to build your librarians purpose around the primaris power, as its essentially guaranteed.

This all sounds quite sensible until you realise that out of the available disciplines, 4/7 Primaris' are shooty powers, and 2 of the remaining 3 are under demonology, which you don't really want to touch unless you enjoy perils of the warp (and seeing a red stain where your psyker used to be). You're correct in that, with bad powers rolled, Librarians can be a little bit of dead weight, but with the right powers they can turn a good unit into an absolute nightmare.

It's also worth remembering that Librarians roll for their powers BEFORE they deploy / attach to a unit, so in rare circumstances you can change who they're attached to if the powers are more suitable.

Captains are generally close combat orientated, with more wounds and higher initiative than a Chaplain they're generally better at winning challenges too. If you want to spend nearly 300 points, upgrade a Captain to a Chapter Master, give him the Burning Blade & Shield Eternal, stick him on a bike and murder things. (For +1, play Iron Hands).

Chaplains are a close combat force multiplier, put with Assault Terminators, Vanguard Vets, Honor Guard or even plain old Assault Marines, they make the unit far more consistent.

There's alot more to be said about all three HQs, without even getting on to the special characters. With the list you currently have, I'd probably advocate a Terminator Character to attach to your assault terminators in the raider. Whether its a Captain, Chaplain or Biomancy / Telepathy Libby is up to you.

Side note: Terminator armour is especially nice on Librarians, as its their cheapest source of an invulnerable save.

 

[Tyriks]

Thanks again for the response! I was planning on grabbing a chaplain with a jump pack to go with an assault squad or vanguard vets to start out with, just to keep point costs down until I have enough units to get into a higher point bracket. I do like some of the primaris powers, but what's wrong with the "shooty powers?" Some of them look pretty decent. Are they just not worth the warp perils risk?

Also, have some rep for the helpful responses!

 

[Rush Darling]

Hey bud, sorry for the slow reply, christmas and all that.

I'm a big fan of a jump chaplain in an assault squad myself, just make sure you have melta bombs / an eviscerator in there so you can threaten stronger vehicles, and don't go charging nasty melee units and you'll be fine.

Vanguard vets are a little tricky, as even with Storm shields to give them 3++ they're still vulnerable to math hammer. If you're thinking of putting them in a Raider then you're probably better with honour guard (remember jump units aren't allowed in raiders, so the VVs wouldn't have jump packs) or if you want to keep the jump packs and foot slog them / put them in a Stormraven (Stormravens have an exception that allows jump units to embark) then that's not a bad shout either.

Bonus of the jump packs is they're more mobile after they're out of their transport, and whilst they have re-rollable charge regardless now, hammer of wrath is always a pleasant surprise.

As for the witchfires, they're all very excellent (Psychic Shriek can be particularly brutal, just remember in spite of the way it's worded, RAW you still need to roll to hit) but generally they're more of an added bonus rather than something to build the Librarians purpose around. My three go to builds are, in order of general effectiveness, a ML1 divination libby in with some Devs (cheap n cheerful), a ML2 Jump Biomancer with force stave in with some assault marines (fairly reliant on rolling iron arm to be effective against some armies) or an ML2 Telepathy librarian on a bike with a plasma toting bike command squad.

Side note: bikes of all flavours are currently excellent.

The only non-daemonology tree I struggle with is Pyromancy, but to be honest it's been a while since I've given it a go.

 

[ntaw]

The only non-daemonology tree I struggle with is Pyromancy, but to be honest it's been a while since I've given it a go.

Everyone struggles with it I think. I want it to make sense for my Libbynaughts but I'll be damned if they've ever pulled useful powers or lived long enough to see them cast.

Are they just not worth the warp perils risk?

As RushDarling pointed out, they need to roll to hit which can be...annoying.

Just out of curiosity, @Tyriks, what has made you want to switch from Blood Angels over to Iron Hands or Black Templars (Chapter Tactics, anyway)?

 

[Tyriks]

Stormravens have an exception that allows jump units to embark

Where is that listed? I can't find that.

Side note: bikes of all flavours are currently excellent.

Glad to hear it, as I now have 4 of them! I'm thinking that chaos bike will end up as a captain (since my efforts to de-chaosize it make it look a little different, and I'm throwing all kinds of random pieces on it).

you're probably better with honour guard

I was just looking at buying a reclusiam command squad (since apparently no one in town has just a plain old Chaplain), and was looking at the difference between HG and Command Squads... HG are cheaper, have better stats and better gear (at least to start with), so I don't really get why the Command Squad exists. I might buy the pack and just use the CS as HG. I am realizing I do like assaults a bit more than ranged (possibly because the guy getting me into 40k plays Eldar, so I'll never match him in ranged combat), so a good assault squad would be nice. I'm also definitely reconsidering the Librarian thanks to your input!

EDIT: I see now that the HG has only 3 models to begin with while the CS has 5, so the cost difference makes sense.

Just out of curiosity, @Tyriks, what has made you want to switch from Blood Angels over to Iron Hands or Black Templars (Chapter Tactics, anyway)?

Well, a lot of minor reasons. I was never really sold on BA (I was given a BA battleforce as a gift 6ish years ago when I tried to get into 40k the first time. The person who got it didn't know BA weren't just regular SM, and neither did I), so it wasn't like a huge change. I am mostly into BT for the concept, and I like IH for the tactics (since FnP and IWND are useful in any game and other tactics aren't necessarily). I was reconsidering the other day, since it would be easier to not have to carve off BA logos or come up with a fluff reason to have a few left. But, I like having the option of changing my chapter tactics from game to game, which would be harder if some of my units are BA only, and there are some units I would like to get eventually that BA can't field. I also wasn't impressed by BA formations (at least for what I have/could have soon).

To be fair, though, it's hard to read through a codex and truly take it in when you haven't played in a long time. Probably 2/3 of the special rules mean nothing to me until I look them up, so it's hard for me to look at a unit and really get how it stacks up against another unit. I might be overlooking something with BA that could change my mind.

 

[Tyriks]

Also, I will edit the list in the original post now that I have a few more units. Thanks again for the help, guys!

 

[ntaw]

I also wasn't impressed by BA formations (at least for what I have/could have soon).

Dude, I have 5k in BA and I still ain't impressed with their Formations :laugh:

Sucks that you didn't know/now might have to cut all the little dangly blood drops off the models though, it sounds like you're way more interested in SM from a fluff/model background which is what makes any army truly collectible for the person playing them. If you had have been all "well, I love BA but can't seem to do anything with them" I would have had plenty more to say! k:

I guess you could always try to sell your BA specific stuff to put the profits toward fancy SM stuff you like more.

 

[Tyriks]

Dude, I have 5k in BA and I still ain't impressed with their Formations :laugh:

Sucks that you didn't know/now might have to cut all the little dangly blood drops off the models though, it sounds like you're way more interested in SM from a fluff/model background which is what makes any army truly collectible for the person playing them. If you had have been all "well, I love BA but can't seem to do anything with them" I would have had plenty more to say! k:

I guess you could always try to sell your BA specific stuff to put the profits toward fancy SM stuff you like more.

Well, I could have checked first, haha. I kind of wish I was more into BA (fluff wise) since it would save me a lot of trouble, but like you said, I enjoy the fluff and that's a big part of what's driving me.

 

[ntaw]

If you didn't want to have to deal with cutting off all the bling for the Blood Angel models you have, you can always play them as counts-as whatever and maybe later on in your gaming life you can use them as an Allied Detachment...though admittedly BA have little to offer SM allies, I honestly see them as very different armies regardless of their shared background. Even if they were on the same level competitively I'd still likely not mix them, but that's my own taste (or rather, distaste for 'vanilla' marines).

 

[Tyriks]

What is it about regular SM that you don't like?

 

[ntaw]

I started out playing Blood Angels when they got a Codex in 2nd edition over 20 years ago and it took GW too long to make me care about the other Chapters (aside from Battle of Terra vets the Imperial Fists and White Scars, and I do also have a Deathwing army because of Space Hulk). At this point the only thing that could draw me to play SM is the recent pile of Formations dropped on the army...but I'm good without that stuff. I could even use my army to play 'red marines' but in all honesty I'm just not interested in the game solely for rules (plus I've been crushing every SM Formation my friends have tried against my BA :grin.