[experiment 626]

greetings!

recently, we had a rather strange assault phase down at the local gw store;
1) a unit of chaos space marines & a chaos lord were already in combat with a crusader squad & assault squad. everyone was in cover.
2) a unit of khorne berserkers assaulted into both the templar squads due to how they had sourounded the chaos marines in the previous round. the 'zerkers had frag grenades.

so, the way we thought it should go is that the 'zerkers & all templars fighting them would strike at I10. (frags + assaulting into cover)
however! there were templars in contact with both the chaos lord & 'zerkers. so would the templars have the choice of fighting the 'zerkers at I10 or else striking after the I5 lord?

to compound matters further, the templars had the suffer not... vow which gave them all a -1I penalty. (we decided not to hamper the templars further though, as the poor kid was getting thrashed quite badly!)
however, under "normal" instances, would the vow then mean that the templars would fight the 'zerkers at I9 instead of 10?!

it was quite the show really as it worked out to a total of 3 chaos units vs. 2 templar units all involved in the same combat. :shock:

thanks for the help!
cheers!

 

[dakari-mane]

Cover only applies on the first turn of a close combat.

As the berzerkers engaged in a latter turn the cover would not be taken into account.
:wink:

 

[The Wraithlord]

Actually it would. The Berzerkers assaulted a unit in cover and the fact that the covered unit was in cc with a separate unit does not change that. According to the RAW, the Berzerkers charged a unit that was in cover and would therefore go last unless they had frags which would allow the combat to be simo. So the Berzerkers and all the templars fighting them would indeed go at I10 vs each other only OR the templars could go in initiative order vs the units they were already in the assault with.

As for he templar vow it does not come into effect when a unit is charged in cover as the assaulting into cover rules take precedence. It WOULD however affect the combat with the unit they were already in assault with, lowering their Init to 3.


Personally, I would direct as many attacks as possible vs the charging unit simply to not have units killed that couldn't attack back due to the init difference. But that is just me

 

[torgoch]

The Berzerkers are not in their first turn of close combat, therefore cannot claim the cover bonus. They have 'spilled out of cover' if recall the wording correctly.

 

[The Wraithlord]

That would apply to the first combat in which the csm's and templars are engaged. However, the Berzerkers charging in are in THEIR first turn of combat so the Init applies.

At least, that is how we have always played here in my area. Charging into cover makes you go last unless you have frags or equivalent, regardless of whether or not the combat was already in progress between other units. I can see how it would be a grey area depending on the situation.

 

[torgoch]

Sorry, I mean the the unit the Berzerkers are charging, in this case the templars. They aren't in their turn of combat, so no cover for them.

 

[mattjgilbert]

If a unit charges into an ongoing combat, the cover bonus (and use of frag grenades to counter it) doesn't apply. It's not a grey area at all!

To get a cover bonus a unit cannot already be in combat. Frag grenades work against the cover bonus so if the unit doesn't get one (they are already fighting), the grenades cannot be used. The assaulting unit simply completes it's charge and then everyone fights at normal initiative. Of course the benefit to the attackers is that they WILL go first if they have a higher initiative and they still get the bonus attack for charging.

 

[don_mondo]

What he ^ said

 

[Insomniac00]

But why would they get an additional attack, i thought you NEVER got the additional attaqck on the charge if you are assulting into an already ongoing combat, or are there special rules that specify otherwise?

Besides that i agree

 

[don_mondo]

But why would they get an additional attack, i thought you NEVER got the additional attaqck on the charge if you are assulting into an already ongoing combat, or are there special rules that specify otherwise?

Besides that i agree

Check page 40, models that launched an assault that turn get the +1 atack.