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Re: Monstrous Creatures is this allowed?

My friend claimed that you can choose to have monstrous creatures count as being in areas that the model would not otherwise fit as long as you use up the proper movement etc to get them there. For example in buildings or underneath areas that he is too tall to stand under. How does this work, to me it could go either way and could make sense either way.
 

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he can only get a cover save on his MC if atleast 50% of it is covered from the perspective of the shooting unit, MC's dont benifit from Area of Terrain
 

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Wobbly Model Syndrome - page 13 BRB,

basically if you cannot place the model in a piece of terrain due to balance etc, you can 'count as' moving there and leave the model somewhere else, but the model is counted as being their for all rules (ie shooting, being shot at, CC, etc)
 

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Wobbly Model Syndrome - page 13 BRB,

basically if you cannot place the model in a piece of terrain due to balance etc, you can 'count as' moving there and leave the model somewhere else, but the model is counted as being their for all rules (ie shooting, being shot at, CC, etc)
As far as ruins go, a model cannot occupy an area that it physically cannot be placed in or on. Page 83 in the BRB.
I love this hobby.
 

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Actually, page 83 says that a unit cannot advance a level unless it can physically fit on the level. If this is not the case, the unit can only move on the ground floor.

On page 11 it says that a model can only move into a space that is smaller than its own base.

A monstrous creature can enter a ruin but it cannot enter a building. (stated indirectly page 79)

To sum up, unless the model's base is able to fit it doesn't qualify to be removed as per the "wobbly model syndrome" entry. Monstrous creatures cannot enter building. However, they can enter ruins and move up levels as long as their base is able to fit completely.
 

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are monsterous creatures allowed to move up buildings anyway
 

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However, they can enter ruins and move up levels as long as their base is able to fit completely.
So does wobbly model syndrome kick in if an MC can't fit(modelwise) but MOST of his base can?

The defining factor of this algorithm is what excludes the MC from climbing those stairs? Is it base-size? You can show me a page that CLEARLY states that a model, regardless of WMS, can move through a ruin UNLESS it cannot fit it's ENTIRE base?
 

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If it cannot fit, it cannot move through/be placed. I can imagine a Carnifex trying to get through a door to a group of Guardsmen, but he's so big he won't fit.
 

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Does this apply to wings etc that don't count for LOS etc. My gd has balrog wings. But i dare say they would be furled inside a building.
 

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I'm looking for a solid quote from the book, and a page number. This is vital.

I need to wave this in the cheaty nids face and yell "CHEATYNID"

Does this apply to wings etc that don't count for LOS etc. My gd has balrog wings. But i dare say they would be furled inside a building.
You gotta be able to place the entire base inside. I think obstructions don't matter but if you go up a level you have to place the base so that the floor is COMPLETELY under the base. Otherwise it cannot move there.
 

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So come again about this rule that MC cannot move thru ruins its base cant fit in? My DP has a MC base, others have a Termy base. So just because I have a MC base I cant have my MC on the second floor to assualt the enemy hiding up there, but my Smaller base DP can?

That dont sound right.

Also as someone mention before, IG run thru the door but the Carnie base doesnt, Why cant the Carnie smash thru? If he can be place in the terrain, then isnt this allow for ruins? Troops move trhu solid wall as far as Ruins go from every game I saw. Its even stated that units are going thru windows, making a door with gernades, ect.
 

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MC's can move in, around, through and up/down in ruins.

BRB, Page 83,under the sections titled, MOVING WITHIN RUINS and INFANTRY, MONSTROUS CREATURES AND WALKERS

"...may move on the upper level of a ruin- and only if the model can physically be placed there. Other units may only move on the ground level of the ruin."

So if you have gigantic wings on a model and they don't fit under the blown out roof, then by the book, you can't put it there. Or, if the base is too big and it will not stay put, it cannot be placed there.
Wobbly model syndrome does not come into play in this situation either. WMS is there to protect the model from falling from a precarious placement, not from a placement it physically cannot occupy.
Example: My stormboys tip over when on the slope of a hill. They can occupy the slope as they can physically occupy the space but due to gravity and angle, they tip over. I can then put them to the side and say that "they are here."
My dreadnought is on a 60mm base that cannot stay put on the top level of a GW plastic ruins model. I try to make it stay put but it will not, the base and model is too big. Therefore the model cannot occupy that space as the space is too small for the model. It isn't wobbly, it is unable to physically occupy the space.
Basically, you can't fit 10 pounds of shit in a 5 pound bag.

As for a large model going through a door, they can. BRB, Page 83 again. Under: WALLS, DOOR AND LATERAL THINKING.
In theory, you can walk through walls that have no visible door, window or other way of getting through. You can simply pass right through as long as the unit has enough movement to carry all the way through it. It counts as difficult terrain.
 

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Unforgiven, I believe something can be said about this though: you can put them there if the BASE fits, and the head can fit in, if you have huge wings that span out, would it not be treated the same as how shooting is, IE: the wings would be treated as 'not there'
 

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Unforgiven, I believe something can be said about this though: you can put them there if the BASE fits, and the head can fit in, if you have huge wings that span out, would it not be treated the same as how shooting is, IE: the wings would be treated as 'not there'
But they are there...

Shooting rules shouldn't be combined or used as an example when it comes to a movement rule, they are different and don't correlate well together.

The shooting rules say that wings, weapons and banners don't count for targeting a model. That is pretty clear. Shooting a banner or a wing isn't going to "kill" a unit.

But big ass wings or a gigantic banner can impede the movement of a model in a tight space. If you have a model with wings and it cannot fit, then it cannot fit.

Also, the base of the model has to fit along with the model itself as it says on page 83 in the BRB. The base represents the space a model occupies. The model represents the actual unit in the game.

If I used the theory that the base is the only thing that needs to fit then I should go out and get a ton of epic sized marines and mount each one individually on slota-bases. Those little pricks could move under a land raider or a rhino without touching. LOS would suck, but I mainly use berzerkers so all I worry about is close combat anyway which uses base to base measurements and not model size. See how size does matter? (Insert crude, "that's what she said" joke here.) You wouldn't be too happy to play against a bunch of microscopic marines that you could never draw a LOS too, would you?

The size of a model is the actual representation of the unit in the game. LOS is measured from the eyes and weapons. Movement is measured from the space the unit occupies, its base, and the physical space is measured by the actual model itself. Models cannot move into a space it physically cannot occupy just as it cannot shoot at what it cannot see or move through a space it cannot fit through.

(For this reason I have thought about modeling a tiny set of butterfly wings on my demon prince. Wings are wings no matter how unimpressive they are.)
 

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MC's can move in, around, through and up/down in ruins.

BRB, Page 83,under the sections titled, MOVING WITHIN RUINS and INFANTRY, MONSTROUS CREATURES AND WALKERS

"...may move on the upper level of a ruin- and only if the model can physically be placed there. Other units may only move on the ground level of the ruin."

So if you have gigantic wings on a model and they don't fit under the blown out roof, then by the book, you can't put it there. Or, if the base is too big and it will not stay put, it cannot be placed there.
Wobbly model syndrome does not come into play in this situation either. WMS is there to protect the model from falling from a precarious placement, not from a placement it physically cannot occupy.
Example: My stormboys tip over when on the slope of a hill. They can occupy the slope as they can physically occupy the space but due to gravity and angle, they tip over. I can then put them to the side and say that "they are here."
My dreadnought is on a 60mm base that cannot stay put on the top level of a GW plastic ruins model. I try to make it stay put but it will not, the base and model is too big. Therefore the model cannot occupy that space as the space is too small for the model. It isn't wobbly, it is unable to physically occupy the space.
Basically, you can't fit 10 pounds of shit in a 5 pound bag.

As for a large model going through a door, they can. BRB, Page 83 again. Under: WALLS, DOOR AND LATERAL THINKING.
In theory, you can walk through walls that have no visible door, window or other way of getting through. You can simply pass right through as long as the unit has enough movement to carry all the way through it. It counts as difficult terrain.
This.
Is it only impassible terrain that prevents movement if the space is to small for the base to fit through?
 

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Is it only impassible terrain that prevents movement if the space is to small for the base to fit through?
No. Impassable terrain is impassable no matter what. I don't think a guardsman would want to occupy a molten lava flow even if he could fit in the crevasse. The only units that can "occupy" impassable terrain is flying units like jetbikes as they are flying/hovering above it. They still need to take dangerous terrain tests though.

If the base of a model cannot pass through the gap between two other models then it cannot pass. Same can be said for buildings too. If the space between two walls is smaller than the models base, it cannot move that way. This can be open terrain, difficult terrain or dangerous terrain, it is the same for all of them.
 

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If the space between two walls is smaller than the models base, it cannot move that way. This can be open terrain, difficult terrain or dangerous terrain, it is the same for all of them.
Whoa,whoa,whoa..... got an actual rule to support this?
 
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