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Executive Nitpicker
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You need to pay a little closer attention. It;s been explained a couple times already just in this thread.

JET-Packs (which are only for Tau) count as Stationary when firing RF weapons. So a Tau Battlesuit can fire two shots at 12" or less or 1 shot at greater than 12" even if he moved. Because he counts as stationary for RF then he can also assault after shooting his RF weapon, no matter how many shots he fired (but since you have to assault the same target you shoot and nobody can assault past 12" he has to have fired two. You don;t get a choice.)

JUMP Packs are different, and they do NOT make you counht as stationary. Therefore, if you had a Jump pack and a Bolter, you can NOT assault if you fire, no matter how many shots you fire (and again, it would have to be 2 since you cannot decide only to shoot once if the target is that close)

Make sense now?
 

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Porn King!!!
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Yet another reason why I love my Tsons. With them being slow and purposeful I can run up to my opponent, unleash 20 ap3 shots upon then AND charge in with all those marines and the souped up force weapon as well.

Yeah, it's good to go with Tzeentch.
 

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Executive Nitpicker
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...why?
What's the obsession with Blood Claws? They're not that great compared to anyone else.

They've got true grit, which is basically a worthless ability that's easily replaced with simply carrying a pistol like chaos does, and they can be in squads of up to 15, but that's nothing special (again, chaos does it better) and they cost more points, don;t they?

I mean, I'm not trashing on Wolves, and it's good to be proud of your army but I just don't see the logic here.
 

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they dont have true grit

15 claws
14 points each
3 power weapons or fists
(flamer or melta optional)
60 attacks on charge
12 of them power weapons
Replace one with a rune priest use storm caller they get cover save and I10 if charged
 

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Executive Nitpicker
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Edit: Just found my codex

Your guys also have 1 less BS and (most importantly for an assault squad) one less WS! Even a basic SM scout would hit these guys on a 3+

Meanwhile I can have a 10 man Veteran Assault Squad with 3 power fists (or claws, or pws, or stormbolters, or combi-weapons) two meltaguns (or flamers, or plasguns), jump packs, combat shields or storm shields if I want them, krak and frag grenades included, meltas more if I want them, full SM stats with +1 LD and +1A, and 40 attacks on the charge or 30 otherwise (same number of attacks as your 15 guys get when they;re not charging.

If my guys charge I've got 10 more attacks than you. And on the second round of combat, my 10 guys have the same number of attacks as your 15

And more importantly, my attacks are more likely to *hit* than yours.
Out of 10 attacks for your guys, 5 are likely to hit. The same 10 attacks for my guys will score 6.6 (it's math, could be 6, could be 7) hits against yours.

So in 30 attacks, you'll score 15 hits and I'll score 20. More guys isn't always better.

Blood Claws aren't a bad unit, not by far, but they're not the single greatest unit in the game or anything. And considering the 1kSons have AP3 bolters and invul saves, they;ll put up a hell of a fight before you even get into assault
 

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Inquisitor
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Gal.. you are comparing an Elite choice thats minimum 18pts a model to a Troops choice at 14pts. Dont go to hard on the guy.

On that note I could throw my Grey Knight Terminators into the fray. My uber 700pt plus Grand Master + Grey Knight Terminator Elite squad (yes HQ and Elite choice working together)

Grand Master w/ NFW+DaemonHammer, Icon of the Just, Sacred Incence, Holocaust psychic power(6A on the charge at WS5 Str6 + Force Weapon + Holocaust template at Init1)
Brother Captain w/ NFW+Chain Fist (5A on the charge at WS5 Str6)
1 Terminator w/ Psycannon+NFW (3A on the charge at WS5 Str6)
8 Terminators w/ Stormbolters+NFW (3A a piece on the charge at WS5 Str6)

Total of 16 Stormbolter shots + 3 Psycannon shots prior to the charge
Total of 38 WS5 Str6 attacks on the charge.. all powerweapon and 6 as a Force Weapon
1 Holocaust large blast template attack at Str 5 at Init 1.

I killed Kharne and a full 20 man squad of Berserkers in 1 turn with that squad back in 3rd Edition. They didnt even have a chance to strike back. My friend never played World Eaters again and eventually sold them.

Anyways.
Storm Bolters + True Grit = Rockin (unless your getting gunned down by TSons AP3 bolters :sad: )
 

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You have to consider though, that Blood Claws hit Thousand Sons in close combat on a roll of 3+ due Prefferend Enemy.

They will however have a hard time facing AP 3 Bolters.

We did it last time on Prospero, we did it in both battles of the fang, we might as well do it everytime - kicking your butts, you vicious sorcerers.

Lemartes
 

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Blood Claws are pretty cheap and can throw out a high number of attacks. They also have options for power weapons and the like.

Other than that there's not that much special about them.

Blood Angels veteran assault squads are pretty cost effect being only 10pts more than a standard assault squad at base cost. :eek:
 

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Executive Nitpicker
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I never suggested it was a fair comparison, it's just George keeps calling out bloodclaws like they're the greatest thing going. They aren't bad, not by a long shot, but they're not the end-all be-all, is what I was getting at. Last time we talked, he tried saying his blood claws could take the Death Company so by calling on the VAS I was being kind ;-P
 

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With most space marine squads being limited to 10 models he does have a point that on average they are a good troop choice. If you think about it he can field what.. 100 of them in a typical FOC? Squad for squad they dont shine to well but when you get down to pt for pt what they can do they start to shine a little more. Maybe not quite as much as VAS, DC, or GKs but I think far better than your standard Tactical Squad or Combat squads.

Personally on the whole I hope that the full flavor of Space Wolves comes out of this next re-write intact with just minor "USR" rule adaptions and some minor ironing to get it ready for 5th Edition. If it gets the same treatment as some of the other codexes I'll be pretty mad. The only way Space Wolves truly follow Codex: Astartes is that they are ~1000 strong. Barring that they have always followed their own course and have said to hell with Roboutes codex. I see that as a truly colorfull army.
 

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i just play space wolves thats why i say claws all the time

my scouts came on the rear today and killed a whirlwind with bolt pistol fire before i had a chance to charge.

i killed 2 tactical squads 1 land speeder with 9 claws and a rune priest
after he had blown up my rhino and killed 4-5 of my men

but hey thats ultramarinesl ol
 

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Executive Nitpicker
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Like I said, they're a good unit, a very good unit. But that doesn't mean you should go around saying they can take anything just because you're proud to be a space wolf.

I'm proud of being a Blood Angels player, but I don;t claim that a BA tactical squad can take on all comers ;-)
 

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Yeah but Ill claim that my Grey Knights troops CAN take on all comers :p
 

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Executive Nitpicker
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And I won't argue, model for model <chuckles>

I wouldn't even throw my death company at any decent number of GKs without thinking twice and coming up with a better target.
 

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i dont know grey knight stats but id probably shoot them and still charge them with claws considering its
either
grey hunters
guard in termi armor
blood claws (bikes or jump packs / normal)
 

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To the rapid firing of weapons and assaulting, theonly way around it is a Taujetpack or a Bike.....space marines on bikes may rapidfire their plasmaguns and then assault that turn...check the rules book if no one believes me..
 

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i dont know grey knight stats but id probably shoot them and still charge them with claws considering its
either
grey hunters
guard in termi armor
blood claws (bikes or jump packs / normal)
Grey Knights
WS5 BS4 Str6 (in HtH) T4 I4 A1 LD10+Fearless 3+ AS
Equipped with Storm Bolters and Nemesis Force Weapons (makes them Str6 in HtH)
To shoot at them you have to roll the Shrouding which is like Night Fighting only a little more useless (only really helps at 36" or more)
In HtH they get True Grit with their Storm Bolters so they always count as having an additional CCW.
They get to fire their Storm Bolters (Assualt 2 - 24") and still assualt into CC but they never recieve the +1 attack for charging.
They always have a Sgt whose Nemesis Force weapon is considered a Power Weapon and he has +1 Attack over normal GKs (so always 3 attacks in CC)

They run an average of 250pts for a 10 man squad. Their pretty powerfull HtH squad but what really makes people mad about them is their Stormbolters. An assualt 2 - 24" + true grit makes a lot of people mad. They lay down tons of firepower while they are running up on you and then once you get into HtH their WS means they hit most people on 3s and their Str 6 means they wound most people on 2s and 2 attacks a piece plus the 3 power weapon ones from the Sgt makes most people cringe. Even if they loose combat their Fearless.

On the other hand you can have a lot of power weapons in your Blood Claws so you should do pretty well. Power Weapons, Plasma Guns, and any other AP3/2/1 weapon are the bane of Grey Knights at close range. They are by no means an unstoppable unit. They die just like any other marine. They are just a whole lot better at killing than most other marine units. Notice I said most but not all. THey take a lot of finesse to use and are usually used as MC/Character hunters since they kill big things really well.
 
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