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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
HQ
Chaos lord-Jump pack-lighting claws-melta bombs-145
Elites
6 terms-power fists-combi meltas -265
No clear cut plan for these guys, thinking DS so they can nuke a tank real quick or a enemy special squad. Then get into CC and beat though anything else
Troops
10 CSM-champion with PF-x2 meltas-rhino-extra armor -260
10 CSM-champion with PF-x2 meltas-rhino-extra armor -260
Fast attack
4 CSM bikes-x2 meltas- champion with PF-192
4 CSM bikes-x2 meltas- champion with PF-192
Bikers harsh flanks and support units as well as tanks
9 Raraptors-x2 meltas-200 (lord here)
Hits tanks, enemy HQ, and support squads
Total-1514 (I know im over but im going to adjust later)

Okay, the point of this list is to be fast and up front. Everything that’s not deep striking is in a transport and with the loads of meltas I have plenty of Aint-tank. I have never used bikers before and heard they weren’t great, but decided to throw them in anyways. I don’t have any marks because it doesn’t go along with my army fluff. So any thoughts?
Should I ditch the bikers or raptors for chosen or more terms?

Cheers
 

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First off, you are going to have some problems with Eldar. Yeah, not many people play Eldar but they may cause a problem. If you want your list able to face all enemies you will need to fix that. Usually, you wont have to face an Avatar but if you do well then just run away. Watch out for all those skimmers that make your meltas a joke. Also if you are going to DS the Termis they are going to get focused. If you DS the raptors they are going to get focused. If they both don't come in the same turn you are going to have some problems.
 

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Frankly, you're going to face problems with a number of armies. Currently, the problem is that you are going too many directions with this.

First, your Lord is a bit expensive considering for another 10 points you could be running a Wings, Warptime DP. Running with the raptors, kitted as they are, they'll make a decent fast assault squad. However, they'd be better with an Icon of Khorne to get more attacks in. And a Champ with a PW.

Second, your Terminator squad is too expensive to not have a solid plan.

Other then that, you have a fairly solid list for the concept...though it would be a good idea to remember that Bikes are not very competitive.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 · (Edited)
1. I cant run deamons, marks, or anything related to the chaos powers, as my frineds and i are playing a fluff spefic tourny (my fluff dosnt alow it :()
2. I see your point on the terms intervivo, I might just replace them wiht 2 squads of chosen wiht meltas or plasma guns
3.The bikes are really thier to clear LZs for my DS units. I figure if they turbo boost they can get into shooting/CC quick and tie up squads that could foucs my DS units
4. I though about the eldar problem to but luckly wont be facing them. This list is for a semi-competive game (ie me and a couple friedns that wont to win but not really at all costs)

Alright going good so far. You guys think i should keep the terms or should i replace them with chosen?
 

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I'm still curious about the use of bikes. The fact that you don't see them often would be a testiment to their weakness, but yet the fact that they aren't used often suggests that maybe there is a use for them and they just aren't feilded enough to be given the chance to prove their worth.

I myself am tossing up the merits of a nice big biker squad versus preds or oblits as my primary anti-tank. I'm keen to see some discussion on bikes here rather than just comments about them being poor.
 

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Short thoughts on Bikes.

There stat line is the same as your average CSM except that they get +1T that doesn't count vs double toughing.

For more then twice the point cost of a CSM you get a TL Bolter, +1T, a 12" move, a 24" turbo boost and relentless.

The TL Bolter effectively gives them a BS of 5 and when combined with relentless makes a very effective shooting platform. The ability to take two special weapons in a minimum sized squad is also very nice. Taking an Icon is the same price, but can often be used to greater effect then a regular CSM squad because of the increased movement and Toughness.

The downside...they cost a lot for single wound, double toughed on S8+, non-fearless models. Considering:

10x Bikes w/ Champ, PF, 2x Melta, IoCG = 400

10x CSM w/ Champ, PF, 2x Melta, IoCG, Rhino = 255

If the above squads were charged by a 10 man CSM squad with a champ and a fist, the CSM would take 3.5 wounds and the Bikes would take 2.75 wounds. Frankly, 0.75 wounds of survivability isn't impressive enough to warrant the extra 145 points you spend.

Bed time now, but I'd like to hear other peoples thoughts.
 

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InteroVivo's main point is correct.

if you have no plans with your termies, drop them.

typically in a fast deployment list, go with Bikes or Raptors, but not both, as they're way too expensive for both units to be in a list.

despite what Intero said (which is correct) i prefer bikes as they're tougher to wound.

what you decide to drop is purely up to your preference, experience, and play style.

good hunting.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Okay guys switched list a little
HQ
Chaos lord-Jump pack-lighting claws-melta bombs-145
Elites
5 chosen-plasma guns-165
Troops
10 CSM-champion with PF-x2 meltas-rhino-extra armor -260
10 CSM-champion with PF-x2 meltas-rhino-extra armor -260
Fast attack
5 CSM bikes-x2 meltas- champion with PF-192
5 CSM bikes-x2 meltas- champion with PF-192
9 Raraptors-x2 meltas-200 (lord here)
Total-1470
I increased the bike unit size and added the chosen. I figure with plasma guns they will be good at taking out any big high Sv units and clearing a LZ for my raptors. You guys like?
 

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First off, I never take extra armor on my Rhinos (thats 30 points you could be using elsewhere). It rarely comes into effect, but thats just me. I also like the non marked daemon weapon on the Lord rather then lighting claws, but that might count as a daemon for fluff.

I like the idea of deep striking chaos a lot, and bikes make that really easy with their 24 overdrive if you give them an icon (chaos glory is only 10 points and isn't affiliated with any daemon stuff), and I don't really like choosen since they gain no survivability but are fairly exp.

So, trying not to warp your list to much, and taking the same idea I would build something like:

HQ
Chaos lord-Jump pack-Daemon weapon-melta bombs-155

Elites
3 Termis 3x Combi meltas, one with chainfist and aspiring champ-130
3 Termis 3x Combi meltas, one with chainfist and aspiring champ-130

Troops
10 CSM-champion with PF-x2 meltas-rhino-245
10 CSM-champion with PF-x2 meltas-rhino-245


Fast attack
5 CSM bikes-x2 meltas- icon chaos glory-195
5 CSM bikes-x2 meltas- icon chaos glory-195
9 Raraptors-x2 meltas-200 (lord here)

Don't know if I'd want a champ and some sort of power wep in the fast attack choices. If you drop the troops and raptors to 8 man's you would gain 100 points to play with (loosing 2 melta's overall... but they're slow melta's compared to the rest of your army).

Total- 1495

My main worry is that non of the squads are good enough to kill other armies elite squads; but basically:

The bikes turboboost up close to tanks so your 3 deep strikes can drop in melta range without scattering. The termi squads are small, but if you position your bikes well the termis and bikes hopefully could support each others combat (the bikes and termis on their own wont do much), then raptors and troops clean up.

I'd definitely be tempted to shrink your troops to better equip/enlargen your fast/shock units. You might be able to get away with one bigger bike squad, that may be better.

As for the discussion on the bikes; though they have higher toughness, they have less wounds and attacks per points spent, so the survivability of the squads as a sole unit are probably the same.

(min 3 man Bike squads is 5 toughness, but 3 wounds and 6(9) attacks) 99 points
(min 5 man Raptor squad is 4 T, but 5 wounds and 10(15) attacks) 100 points

basically you end up choosing them for their mobility abilities.

Anyways, your lists look good, but if your deep striking at all I think you'd heavily benefit from at least one biked chaos glory icon. I just shamelessly like terminators... In all honesty 2 raptor squads and 1 bike squad is probably better then the 2 termi 2 bike 1 raptor setup, I just wanted more deep strike possibilities.
 
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