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Discussion Starter #1
I have an issue. In 6hrs. I have to fight a IG fight with a 1360pt. mission. I've NEVER beaten IG, and hope this time to end that losing streak. However, its a battle mission this time around.

MISSION:
The mission is that (Most likely the IG. The GM tends to ALWAYS give the IG the defense position) sets up on ANY table edge, 12in. I as the enemy before hand write down on a piece of paper a random side before he deploys. After he sets up, I go and set up 12in from w/e side I chose. THEREFOR, there is a 1/4 chance I'll be starting on the opposite side of the IG player. However, I dont know, but am Guessing he'll be starting off with the first move. So here is my list for the match:

Eldrad: 210

Dire Avengers (10)
Exarch
Bladestorm
152

Dire Avengers (10)
Exarch
Bladestorm
152
Wave Serpent (1)
Shurriken Cannons
100

Striking Scorpions: (8)
Exarch: +12
Scorpion fist: +15
Shadow Strike: +20
Total: 175

Fire Dragons (5)
80
Wave Serpent (1)
Shurriken Cannons
100

Wraithlord
x2 Flamers
Brightlance
EML
Total: 155

WarWalkers: 3
Shurriken Cannons
Total: 120

Fire Prism

Total: 1360


I was thinking of trying to shave some points to put in the Avatar as well. This would draw major fire, and if can get into CC, will destroy him. So what do you guys think of this list vs. IG?
 

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this list looks good but i would seriously consider takng another wave serpant for your first dire avenger squad. also use eldrad in conjunction with the striking scorpions, firstly doom the enemy squad and give your scorpians every chance of getting the extra re-rolls for wounds. also hit them with eldritch storm as you can cast 3 powers a turn with him, not many people like this power but against guard it will become invaulable against the guards T3 and when doomed you will get re-rolls. as for your fire dragons, i think you should try to fortune the wave serpant they are in and then turbo boost it across the table to get the cover save with re-rolls. Eldrad is going to be your best bet to have an effective game plan to revolve around. i would give the avatar a miss against guard as he will proberly go down in the first turn of shooting and he is just not fast enough to do any damage. everything else looks good and ready for killing guardsmen. Hope that helps with the game and good luck. let us all know how it went.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
this list looks good but i would seriously consider takng another wave serpant for your first dire avenger squad. also use eldrad in conjunction with the striking scorpions, firstly doom the enemy squad and give your scorpians every chance of getting the extra re-rolls for wounds. also hit them with eldritch storm as you can cast 3 powers a turn with him, not many people like this power but against guard it will become invaulable against the guards T3 and when doomed you will get re-rolls. as for your fire dragons, i think you should try to fortune the wave serpant they are in and then turbo boost it across the table to get the cover save with re-rolls. Eldrad is going to be your best bet to have an effective game plan to revolve around. i would give the avatar a miss against guard as he will proberly go down in the first turn of shooting and he is just not fast enough to do any damage. everything else looks good and ready for killing guardsmen. Hope that helps with the game and good luck. let us all know how it went.
Will do.

Against IG, you think that SS is teh way to go as opposed to Banshees and their fast fleet movement, yes? Cause even though SS are good and have the 3+ save, HB have the power weapons and fleet. But I am not sure if it is really worth it against IG or not. Im guessing NOT, but I just need reassurance/any other tips I can GET.
 

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banshees are good but your scorpians have shadow strike which means they will be closer to the enemy lines, where as the banshees would have to foot slog it across the field unless you purchase a WS for them. As for the power weapons, they wont make much difference due to guard having a low armour and scorpians will most likely get more wounds due to higher strength. So yes go with the SS and make good use of the infiltrate rule, they should be in amoungst the guards lines in no time at all, creating carnage. Remember to stick to as much cover as you can when using the SS as they advance towards the enemy. If you are still unsure sure about the SS then go with the harlies as their rendering abilty will come in useful and the guard wont be able to shoot at them if you have a shadowseer with vail of tears.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Well, what about tank punching power? Think I got enough?

Im wondering if bringing brightlances on my wraithlord is worth it since if I remember, most IG tanks DONT have higher then AV12, correct?

And yes about the SS and HB. However, remember the battle mission. There is a 1/4 chance I'll be on the opposite side of the field. Otherwise, I'll be right behind him, or to one of the sides of him, hence, closer to him to get into CC range faster. Though again, there is the problem of him firing off all his guns on them fast. So the 3+ is worth it probably.
 

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tank punching power is good, the BL are a waste if their tanks are only av12 but im not sure what they are, if you are worried take EM as you will also get the choice of blast and anti armour shots, this will also free up 30pts that can be used on some SS or FD. I dont think you will need more anti armour as you have som FD in you list which will cause enough carnage on thier own. It sounds like you need to pray to the dice gods to help you get a good deployment roll or just get somone else to roll it lol :grin:. Even if you do start opposite him, i think you do have enough transports to get your troops into combat quickly. Def consider changing the BL for EM it will give you more options in the long run
 

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If you're taking Scorpions skip the Claw and go for the Biting Blade. That way if they get the chance they can take out vehicles fairly well.

You are a tad light on anti tank. Just a tad. It's just that thanks to the front armor on the Russ being 14. You could flank around and hit the squishy back though. I would suggest some Scatter Lasers instead of Shuriken Cannons for that. I know Cannons can get through Guardsmen armor, but so can Dire Avengers and the Fire Prism.

If you are coming off of a random table edge (as opposed to just deploying in one) you could start in reserve and come right onto the board behind him with some really dangerous things.

Out Flanking War Walkers could help with vehicle squadrons if you expect to see any, as you do not have enough Fire Dragons to pose the most reliable threat.
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The more I look at it, the more it seems the list will work if you just find significant side/back armor shots on his vehicles.

I am a little unsure as to whether or not you actually want a CC unit in there, that units a bit pricey and those point could easily be spread elsewhere to increase other units shooting power or survivability.

Scorpions will not be wanting to Infiltrate, that just means they'll probably be closer the the enemy than the rest of your army (otherwise why infiltrate?) If their closer, they'll be in range of a ton of small arms fire. That will likely be enough shots to neutralize the threat that the Scorpions posed. They could Outflank and assault on entry, but that is a gamble as to whether or not they will actually be in range or come in on the right side.

With out a Transport, Howling Banshees would be even worse off thanks to their worse armor save. (Fleet won't save them)

Another Serpent? Better guns? Holo-Fields? All good options that will boost the list at the cost of CC unit gamble.
 

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Discussion Starter #8 (Edited)
I was hoping you'd pop on Skyro. You typically have awesome advice.

So what you're saying is probably remove the scorpions in order to invest into some more long range fire support then? Cause that was something i worried about with infiltration. If I remove the Scorpions, it gives me some nice points to use elsewhere. Thing is though, maybe is it worth it proxying them in for Harlies instead perhaps?

What I worry about is granting the IG player those shots from a distance and allowing him to keep firing. That is what IG do best. FIRE FIRE FIRE FIRE!
 

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more or less what Styro said, but specifically, I'd drop the Scorps and Wraithlord for more TL BL and SL on the Walkers.

certainly increase the size of the Fire Dragons if at all possible.

also, i'd recommend taking DA with Shimmershield, PW, and Defend.

they should be able to handle IG in CC, and you DO want them tied up in CC once you bust a transport so your opponent can't fire at the DA with his whole list.

better to kill a tank, lock up in CC and avoid being fired upon, because in a worst case scenario he could lucky, kill your tanks, and then fire at the DA unit inside with everything.

that being said, i'd be prepared to count the Serpent with the Fire Dragons as a casualty early on if he's smart.

good hunting.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Would 6 Jetbikes be a viable option? in this list? Fast moving, and should be able to take IG in CC, am I right?
 

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Personally I love Jetbikes but if you want them to really perform any combat role you need to go all out points wise.

I know this isnt what you have but might be something to consider if you like bikes.
Jetseer-Spirit Stones, Doom, Fortune, Runes of Witnessing, Runes of Warding, SS (188)
6 Jetbikes, 2 shrunken cannons (152) + Jetlock- Destructor, SS (210)

I run this in my list as low as 750pts. The 3+ reroll able armor save is deceptively hard to get through from small arms fire. The threat is las cannons which if played right should be directed at your more damaging elements like prisms and Serpents, which are ideally positioned to get cover saves. This squad has 6 Str6 shots which shred AV 10-11 and then two Singing spears for heavier targets. They also mess up GEQ thanks to doom and tl-catapults. The reason i take destructor over embolden here is that even though it looks better on paper to do maximum damage I need to get dangerously close to my enemy having that little extra punch to dislodge some squad in cover helps make those wounds turn into downed models

It kinda turns into a poor mans seer council
 

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Would 6 Jetbikes be a viable option? in this list? Fast moving, and should be able to take IG in CC, am I right?
i wouldn't use them. yeah they're fast, but Guadians on bikes are still too weak to overwhelm IG in CC.

the reason DA are better for CC against GEQ's is due to Defend: removing one attack to a minimum of 1 will make your oppoent regret charging a unit with higher initiative.

good hunting.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
i wouldn't use them. yeah they're fast, but Guadians on bikes are still too weak to overwhelm IG in CC.

the reason DA are better for CC against GEQ's is due to Defend: removing one attack to a minimum of 1 will make your oppoent regret charging a unit with higher initiative.

good hunting.
That us a VERY good point! I had forgotten ALL about that ability! Very sound.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
AND ITS OVER.

Eldar: 1

IG: 0

Thank you guys a TON!


I was scared at first cause all my WS were given EMLs with the lack of AV+12 on his side. So it was a waste of points to put in BLs against my opponent. Turns out he had to deploy in the MIDDLE of the board, so auto no matter what side I came from, I'd be able to rush him fast.

Inquisitor, that PW+Shimmer combo was a LIFE SAVER and turned the entire game! Cause in turn 1, my 10 Dires with it ran up and fleeted right into his small commander squad. AMAZING results when you see a 5++ fortune make an ENTIRE squad survive, passing all the PF hits from the enemy! Oh god that was awesome! Because of that, he was unable to use his orbital bombardment he was granted from the conditions of the GM. Sadly, in the beginning my Wraithlord and Walkers DIDNT do much. I swear, even with guide, my Wraithlord was pullings 1s and 2s for wounding on tanks! It was DISSAPOINTING!

However, I got my Fire dragons RIGHT UP into his Manticore, and destroyed it after he fired it off ONCE. He tried to take down the Fire Dragons with a 3 S10 AP 3 hits from the tank, but only 2 hit, and the results were 1s and 2s on glances. So they got right up next turn and wiped it. (although I JUST remembered I fired my gun later even though it was shaken, but nothing HAPPENED with it, so I guess its all good....my bad)

Then a doom on his 30man squad, followed by Eldrad and Dires bladestorming in, removing 17 of them. Sadly, I lost 8 of my Dires right away to a Heavy flamer template next round, but they fought on and Eldrads powers were there to stay. Wraithlord at the end FINALLY destroyed his Chimaera, but his vets were able to pop oout of it and charge my Fire dragons and WS. HILARIOUSLY THOUGH, because they blew up the serpent and it exploded 5in out, it killed almost ALL OF THEM while my 2 Dragons left fought on. They lost combat. Sadly, they passed, but still.

Best thing though, since first turn through the end when it ended on turn 5, his 2 walkers and my last 2 walkers LOCKED in "Chicken Combat". No one was doing anything but maybe blowing off a gun, and doing nothing to effect combat. CHICKOOOON...KIIIICK!!!!

I also made the mistake though of thinking I could fit 5 Dires into a Fire Prism....yeaaaah...Fire Prism, you are NOT a falcon! However, when we realized this after the game, it made NO difference since they would have just sat on the back marker where the fire prism was. PLUS, this was the FIRST time I EVER attempted it. Now I know for future games. Biggest dissapointment though was wraithlord. I SWEAR, he DOES his job when he does good AMAZINGLY! But I have the WORST luck of rolling 1s always for 2+ hits.

So thats that. FINALLY a win against IG. Im happy to see Eldar FINALLY winning at CC for once. SO happy I removed Strikers and all the CC units. So thanks a TON guys.

Also, with the +150pts. I won, I am now at 1500pts. Its time for my favorite units to finally appear from the Warp....It's time, for the Eldar Harliquins! >:3 Their first ever run will be fun. Will love to see that Shadowseer PISS PEOPLE OFF!!! I know to give them +2 Fusion guns, but unsure how many in a 10 squad to give kisses to. Any opinions?
 

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Haha! Good Job! (As long as you don't make those little mistakes again! lol)

Sorry that I only got one post in. I had to rush off to take some finals.

But you're getting into the good point sizes now! Time to test out the fun stuff!

On Harlequins: You want to take as many kisses as you can, even at the cost of the Melta.
 
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