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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Not technically 40k... But it's closer than fantasy:grin:

So, my birthdays coming up and I decided it's time to start burning money again... And free time... And maybe some social interactions :)

So... I would like to get into the kick ass, sexy ass, Horus heresy range on the forge world website...

But do I need all 3(+) books to play? Do I just need the one containing the army I would like? Do I just need the first one, plus my armies one?
Honesty if it's anything but just my armies one, that's a bit to much :(

I want to do blood angels, or more accurately flesh tearers immediately after their formed... So I'm counting them as having 30k rules, so I can use my favourite chapter still :so_happy:
Have the blood angels got their rules yet? If not, when are they set to?
Would the world eaters be better to represent jump pack, rage fury?
Are the rules different enough to feel... Different... More 'accurate' to a space marine?

Any other things I should know but can't of now?

EDIT: how much would the average 1250pt marine army set me back?

EDIT II: I've dug a little deeper than I had before on the forge world website and found the blood angels haven't been released yet...
And also there's the rule books the istvan legions and the crusade legions...
What's the difference? Would I need both? Would I just need the crusade book? Would I just need which ever version of the istvan book the blood angels fall into? Would I just need the blood angels 'istvan' book?
 

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Irn Bru 32!
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As for the flesh tearers you could create the blood angels legion 5th company. The captain Nassir Amit was to become the first chapter of the flesh tearers. That would mean you could use them as pre heresy blood angels and flesh tearers.

linky : http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Nassir_Amit#.U-h8LvldWap

Im pretty sure that you would only need the crusade legion list book, as the others are for the legions on istvaan. The £70 books are just full of artwork and fluff.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
That's basically what I was thinking, having read 'flesh of cretacia' and 'fear to tread'
I must say that reading fear to tread before flesh of cretacia would have been a good plan, as it revealed the great weight on his shoulders he talked about...
 

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But do I need all 3(+) books to play? Do I just need the one containing the army I would like? Do I just need the first one, plus my armies one?
All you need to build a generic Legion is this book: http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/The_Hor...ESY_LEGIONES_ASTARTES:_CRUSADE_ARMY_LIST.html

You can buy the other one that has the legion specific rules if you like, but it's not necessary.

I want to do blood angels, or more accurately flesh tearers immediately after their formed... So I'm counting them as having 30k rules, so I can use my favourite chapter still :so_happy:
Have the blood angels got their rules yet? If not, when are they set to?
Would the world eaters be better to represent jump pack, rage fury?
Are the rules different enough to feel... Different... More 'accurate' to a space marine?
Blood Angels don't have their rules yet and from what I've heard they aren't set to any time soon. So really you have two options; either Homebrew your own Legiones Astartes: Blood Angels rules and hope your opponent lets you use them or, as you say, use World Eaters for the time being. They capture the rage stuff quite well. But if you are going to need the one with the Legion specific rules.

Any other things I should know but can't of now?
Not that I can think of.

EDIT: how much would the average 1250pt marine army set me back?
My 1500 points list has set me back nearly £300

EDIT II: I've dug a little deeper than I had before on the forge world website and found the blood angels haven't been released yet...
And also there's the rule books the istvan legions and the crusade legions...
What's the difference? Would I need both? Would I just need the crusade book? Would I just need which ever version of the istvan book the blood angels fall into? Would I just need the blood angels 'istvan' book?

The Blood Angels will likely be part of a later campaign book, so for their specific rules you'll just have to wait.

Hope that helps.
 

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Heresy Betrayal, Heresy Massacre and Heresy Extermination are campaign books, comprising the Isstvan Trilogy. They tell the story of the Horus Heresy so far and detail the various legions. They're filled with awesome fluff and beautiful art. They also contain army lists, scenarios, unit rules as they were released. Book 1 has the generic 30k army list.

The Crusade Army list collects all the previously released generic rules, units and army lists found in the three campaign book into one volume. It has everything game and rule related you need for 30k battles and armies.

The Isstvan Campaign Legions book has the rules for the legion specific units released so far.

Neither has the special Isstvan scenarios or campaigns and are purely game/rule orientated.

So if you want a Blood Angels/Flesh Tearers 30k army then i'd advise you to buy the Crusade Army list book - this will let you play a generic 30k Space Marine force. When it comes out then get the campaign book featuring the Blood Angels so you can pour over their fluff, organisation, colour schemes, famous battles and character. It will also have rules for the Blood Angels legion specifically.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Right thanks guys, that clears it up for me
I'll be using them in standard 40k games, just because no one else has 30k that I know of, I believe 30k I 40k rated, right?
 

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The Crusade Army List is the best thing they could have made, and gives me hope that at some point they'll do the same for Mechanicum, since it's spread across all the HH books so far.
 

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Right thanks guys, that clears it up for me
I'll be using them in standard 40k games, just because no one else has 30k that I know of, I believe 30k I 40k rated, right?
I don't think the points costs are especially transferable, if I remember rightly, but I wouldn't have a problem with it if they're compatible.
 

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Basically, Forge World say "ask your opponent first". I've never had a problem with people playing me though.
 

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Kiro, get someone else to join in with you. It is a less broken game system, by virtue of you are playing with the same units as the target, just with slightly different rules.

There are two really strong legions written so far, Iron Hands, and Imperial Fists. Then here are several slightly less powerful, but still good legions; Sons of Horus, Wprd Bearers, and Night Lords. Others are slightly less so, but the weakest is Emperors Children and Alpha Legion.

Bear in mind that they they are not so much 'weak' except that their Legion specific rules are not as strong as others. EC uniques cost too much IMHO, but things like Phoenix Terminators just mash through other units, and are fantastic at raping Terminators.

If you are going to play Blood Angels, either World Eaters or Night lords with Descent of Angels works reasonably well - either to represent the rampaging, or awe inspiring attacks.

I'd advise picking up the Istvaan books if only for the background. It is a lot, but my god, they are worth it.



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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Unfortunatly it's not about the value for money, there's no way I can afford to drop £70 odd a pop three times over...
£30 a codex is a *tad* steep as it is IMO but hey ho... For the things you love...

And when you said world eaters and night lords with descent of angels, did you mean I house rule that in? Or is that a feature of their rules in themselves?

Also, I'm not sure how I would model them, I know I want them to be mostly mark IV, but with 'modern' jump packs...
I was thinking flesh tearer shoulder pads (duh)
Jump pack set
Forge world MK IV assault squad... And sell there packs later

But their awe fully plain...
So I could buy a death company squad per 5 MK IV assault marines, and kit bash them together like I do currently... That gives me 5 'modern' packs already, and some iconography to mix in... In an identical manner to that of what I do currently, using standard assault squads...
This seems maybe pricey and a hassle...

The alternative is to use the 'modern' standard assault squads, mixed with death company, in 1:1 ratios, as I do now
But buy MK IV helmets, which basically is what I think represents the armour...
That saves jump pack hassles...
However the only MK IV helmets are the word bearers, which I can easily liquid green stuff in the inscriptions...

If this is the wrong place for this, feel free to C/P this segment to modelling or where ever if you see fit...
Or ask me to do it... It was on topic here IMO so...
 

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There are ways of locating the rules. If you do like I do, and purchase the hardset anyway, there's no harm in having another copy to carry around with you, in my eyes. The reason I suggested partnering up with someone is because of that. However, £50 gets you the rules to play everything that has been released so far from FW (and still to be released, in the case of certain models).

The way the army lists are worked out is that you have a generic legion list - at 1000pts or more, you may select a character with a special rule that allows you to modify the FoC, called a Praetor. This is someone who is high up in the legion chain of command, and due to the fact that the Codex Astartes is yet to be written, can train those under him under a particular way of conducting warfare. This is called a Rite of War.

One of those Rites is called Angel's Wrath - my mistake, I thought it was called Descent of Angels, my apologies, calling from hazy memory. You can already take Assault Squads as Troops, and Tactical Squads equipped with BP+CCW anyway (10-20 in size for both). Angel's Descent gives your Jump Infantry models Hit and Run, and allows you to take Storm Eagle gunships as dedicated transports, in exchange for limited options - basically only units which can deep strike (or can start in battle inside units which can) can be taken, no tanks, and no fortifications.

On second thoughts, this might not actually fit BA or would be Flesh Tearers - it's more like an RG force actually. Been a while since I've actually checked these out. Pride of the Legion might be more appropriate, or Orbital Assault.

In regards to modeling, I can't tell you how to make your army, but personally, I prefer the cleaner look. It's more legion-y - and one of the reasons that I prefer 30K compared to 40K - I don't want to look like Goldie, Flava Flav and Jimmie Saville had a love child together, which is how 40K models look these days. And for the Death Company - I might be mistaken, but these do not exist in the manner that they do in 40K - and I don't mean rules wise, but concept wise - neither does Amit's company have personal iconography of the Flesh Tearer, yet - or if they do, I cannot remember it mentioned in Fear To Tread.

There are two books so far which contain a lot of mentions of BA so far in the Heresy series - Vengeful Spirit, and obviously Fear To Tread. And yes, 30K is pricey. You're paying for the better game, and better models.



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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Yeah I know flesh tearers Arnt out back in the day, what I was going to do was have it set just after the second foundings...
So I'll use the 30K rules bur can still use my flesh tearers
Amd I was only talking about the death company in terms of their kits, I use it all the time to add some shiz to my guys... They have back packs, jump packs, melee and bolt guns, so their perfect for everything IMO, I really hope they don't change to drastically :)

And what's the particular qwerks of the other two 'doctrines' you listed...
I rarely deep strike my guys, that happens before the battle in my mind :)
 
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