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Discussion Starter #1
Beware there will be major *spoilers* here. Brothers (and Sisters), I have some questions regarding the HH novel Nemesis. Question #1 Did Eristede Kell die? The book seemed to imply that he was crashing his vessel into Horus's flagship, but he was not mentioned by Horus and Erebus at the end of the book. Question #2 Does anyone have a definitive answer for what "Spear" was? I'm guessing he was a human that was experimented on and then blended with a daemon by Erebus. The book did talk a little bit about the "black pariah" project, but it was short in explanation. Question #3 Did Spear have the ability to teleport? Because that's how I assumed he got into the guys aircar to kill him and later was able to kill the psyker Perrig. And lastly how would you all rate the book overall? I thought it was very good, probably as good as the first 3 HH novels anyway.
 

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Ill explain.

1. Yes he died, and the reason they didn't mention him is because they don't know who he was.

2. Spear was a Pariah, who was experimented on by the Clade Culexes and turned into the Black Pariah. Then Erebus found him and gave him the Daemon to wear as a second-skin.

3. No he was just very fast and agile.

I think Nemesis is a very good book, its currently among my top 3 Heresy books, with A Thousand Sons and Fulgrim. And Spear is one of my favourite 30k/40k monsters, he is incredibly imaginative and well-written.
 

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Whilst it seems obvious that Kell did die at the end of the book I personally thought his end was less than clear.

I wouldn't go as far as to say that he survived, but even the way in which he died is vague. Personally I thought that he just went 'splat' against Horus' ships, but others seem to think the guns got him.
 

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The Emperor Protects
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Kell died, although it doesnt explicitly state it, its fairly certain. I think the guns got him, his ship was already getting hit and wouldnt have lasted much longer. It's one of the things i didnt like about the book. it just seemed so pointless and futile, why didn't he just wait out on the planet and try and shoot Horus.

Spears origin has been explained above pretty well, though its not clear whether the assassins made him into a black pariah or whether he was already somewhat different to the standard pariah and they brought it out more.

Nemesis for a filler book was for me very good, although it could have easily been told in the 40k setting aswell i think, it didn't show us anything more about the heresy itself. But yeah i enjoyed it, especially the way in which Spear finally bought it
 

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Kell died, although it doesnt explicitly state it, its fairly certain. I think the guns got him, his ship was already getting hit and wouldnt have lasted much longer. It's one of the things i didnt like about the book. it just seemed so pointless and futile, why didn't he just wait out on the planet and try and shoot Horus.

Spears origin has been explained above pretty well, though its not clear whether the assassins made him into a black pariah or whether he was already somewhat different to the standard pariah and they brought it out more.

Nemesis for a filler book was for me very good, although it could have easily been told in the 40k setting aswell i think, it didn't show us anything more about the heresy itself. But yeah i enjoyed it, especially the way in which Spear finally bought it.
Because Horus was never going to be on Dagonet.

The answer to that is pretty much obvious. Spear was made into that because no other Black Pariahs have emerged since then, and the why is clear too, because they could, why does anyone experiment on anything, because they can and the results could be good. They made Spear what he is because they wanted more power.
 

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The Emperor Protects
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Never? apart from the bit right at end when he's on it right? It's not obvious though, it was clearly a bad idea and the temple has since never wanted to atempt it again. But he could have easily been a freak of nature, just like theres not been another being like the Emperor, a one off if you will. You can't know for sure which it is
 

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He only landed at the end to oversee the sacrifices, and that was caused by Sedirae's assassination. If that hadn't happened then he would never even have come.

The Emperor was planned though, by the ancient Terran shamans who committed ritual-suicide and reincarnated as him, a single being. Spear is a lab experiment, the Culexes Master admits it at the end, or at least implies it.
 

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I really don't think Spear was a pariah. When he is dicovered on a black ship and kills a psyker, Erebus assumes that is what he is. If he was though, why was he affected by Iota when she turned off her damper, or how did the demon skin survive in the material realm whilst bonded to a pariah? Also, before Spear kills Perrig, she is still able to see into his mind with her powers, and even tries to send a psychic summons to Hyssos.

Whilst she thinks he's a black pariah, if he was none of this could have been possible, her mind would have been crushed and her powers scoured from her the second he appeared.

Also, if he was a pariah, just getting him into the presence of the most powerful mortal psyker ever surely wouldn't have been that much a danger to the Emperor. A person of his strength should easily deal with a pariah if even 95% of his power was supressed.

In my opinion, he is some sort of psychic mirror/amplifier. I felt this was implied in the novel by the fact that the plan was to get Spear close to the Emperor, and use his own reflected and amplified powers to kill him.
 

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The Emperor Protects
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Where have you got that ofrom?? It never says Horus had no intention of landing on the planet. Horus was going to land on the planet, he simply sent Sedirea first to see if it was safe, and even then, Kell still could have waited to see if Horus came down, which he did, rather then going on a pointless suicide run.

And exactly its still completely vague as to how spear came about, its not definite. And even if the Emperor was the result of the shamans its still a one off event, it wont happen again, just like Spear could have potentially been a one off event
 

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Where have you got that ofrom?? It never says Horus had no intention of landing on the planet. Horus was going to land on the planet, he simply sent Sedirea first to see if it was safe, and even then, Kell still could have waited to see if Horus came down, which he did, rather then going on a pointless suicide run.

And exactly its still completely vague as to how spear came about, its not definite. And even if the Emperor was the result of the shamans its still a one off event, it wont happen again, just like Spear could have potentially been a one off event.
Horus would never have come to Dagonet if the Assassins hadn't started an open rebellion, and then he sent Sedirae down because he was too busy to go, knowing that the worthless masses of the planet wouldn't be able to tell the difference between Sedirae and himself.

Spear was definitely a one-off event because it is implied in the novel that he was created by the Culexes Clade, the same way Iota was, just with a different process and goal.
 

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You don't know that, your assuming that. Now they've assasinated Luc, wait for Horus to come down to enact his revenge and shoot him then.

And again your assuming that about Spear, he was clearly experimented on by the temple but you have no idea whether he was different to normal Pariahs in the first place, you would have thought they would experiment on more than one incase Spear died or something else happened during testing. By only experimenting on him alone suggests to me he was already different somehow
 

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Discussion Starter #12
I appreciate the info/your opinions. I assumed that Kell died at the end, but was unsure of how died. The book implies that he kamikaze's into Horus's flagship...which is frigging stupid, but oh well. I thought he was going to attempt to board the vessel and get to the bridge where we would get a cool fight and some good dialogue. Would have been epic. I also was curious as to how Spear would have infiltrated the Imperial Palace in order to get to the Emperor. With the Emperor's blood inside him could he imposter him like he did with his other victims?
 

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You don't know that, your assuming that. Now they've assasinated Luc, wait for Horus to come down to enact his revenge and shoot him then.

And again your assuming that about Spear, he was clearly experimented on by the temple but you have no idea whether he was different to normal Pariahs in the first place, you would have thought they would experiment on more than one incase Spear died or something else happened during testing. By only experimenting on him alone suggests to me he was already different somehow
No, that would have been to easy.
 

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I the Darkness, i think If Horus thought their was an assassin on the surface, he couldve just sent a legion down to hand out the hate and discontent.

I can't really see an assassin outsmarting a Primarch...or in the eternal words of that russian guy in the trade thread, Primarh
 

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Just finished it. Thought it was good. As for spear, he was altogether different prior to experimentation by the clade. Erebus added some extras but spear's abilities don't conform to anything we already know about.
Kell dies apparently although that is a bit of a low point . Seemed totally futile and wasteful. On the other hand the thing with his sister had messed him up a bit.
The thing i was most impressed with was the humanising of all the types of asassins. From the old codex they were practically robots(in action and mindset) but this book really expanded on what they were like inside. The calidius, vindicare and the culexis all now have a semi human face and we can see that they are actually people. The garantine was the best though, his portrayal is excellent, his potency and mindset.
I found the concept of the infocyte to be quite engaging as well, the digital asassin makes a lot of sense really.
 

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To answer the last question posed by the OP

I didnt like this one much, among the weakest of the HH so far. TS by far the best one. Very much looking forward to FH and PB!
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Yeah Thousand Sons was one of the best without a doubt. It still didn't feel as Grand as the first three though.
 

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Its sort of weird reading a book but knowing that neither of the targets die from these assassination attempts.

However it was quite clear to me that the repurcussions of killing Hours would be alot smaller(in a way) than if the Big E got "speared" so early on in the Heresy.
 
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