[dewn_moutain]

so i have a space marine army. and i am looking to add in some trans for them. but as i was reading it, i had some theories that i want to post and see if its possible to do.

theory 1) it is possible to purchase 2 razorbacks for a 10man squad who has broken into combat squads.

theory 2) if you really wanted to, you could purchase a rhino/razorback and a drop pod and at deployment, decide which trans would your squad ride in. the rules only state that a dedicated transport can only be used by the chosen squad, BUT they dont have to be in it at the start of the game. Once the game starts, it can be used by anyone. So aside from the obvious points cost, i think it would be a tactical gain, since the enemy wont know if your troops are in the rhino/razor or falling from the sky.

yes, i know theory 2 is total cheese of the rules and takes the fun out of the game, but ive gone up against guys who have done alot worse just so they can "get the win". so i thought a little payback to them was in order.

 

[lokis222]

so i have a space marine army. and i am looking to add in some trans for them. but as i was reading it, i had some theories that i want to post and see if its possible to do.

theory 1) it is possible to purchase 2 razorbacks for a 10man squad who has broken into combat squads.

theory 2) if you really wanted to, you could purchase a rhino/razorback and a drop pod and at deployment, decide which trans would your squad ride in. the rules only state that a dedicated transport can only be used by the chosen squad, BUT they dont have to be in it at the start of the game. Once the game starts, it can be used by anyone. So aside from the obvious points cost, i think it would be a tactical gain, since the enemy wont know if your troops are in the rhino/razor or falling from the sky.

yes, i know theory 2 is total cheese of the rules and takes the fun out of the game, but ive gone up against guys who have done alot worse just so they can "get the win". so i thought a little payback to them was in order.

The tac squad that breaks down into two combat squads is one unit until deployment begins. When purchasing the unit, under the Dedicated Transports section, it says that A, B, or C may be chosen. So, I would say that more than one per unit may not be taken.

 

[ItsPug]

Nope, sorry, although you can pick a landraider as a heavy choice and a drop pod for the dedicated transport to do it - its just very expensive.

 

[Supersonic Banana]

What ive always wondered is if you get a dedicated transport for a unit can you deploy one and keep the other in reserve?

 

[ChaosSpaceMarineGuy]

Theory 1) False b/c you choose 1 of the # of transports that are available to the unit and then right before the game starts you choose if you want the said unit to break into combat squads or not.
Theory 2) False b/c a unit can ONLY have one dedicated transport.

 

[dewn_moutain]

where does it say i can ONLY have one transport. its not listed in the bible.

and the SM codex states that the unit may choose razorback or rhino, if the unit numbers 10 models, it may choose drop pod. so sure, its a rhino or razorback, but it doesnt say, like it did in the old codex's, " if squad numbers 6 or less, it may choose razorback. if squad numbers 7 to 10 it may take rhino". so its still possible to take a razorback for the squad. Nowhere does it say that if you have more than the max allowed can you NOT buy the transport in the new codex.

 

[Unforgiven302]

where does it say i can ONLY have one transport. its not listed in the bible.

Check the entry for dedicated transports in a unit that can have them: Like regular marines on page 134. "May select A rhino or A razorback." It is singular. Only one transport, (of any type) for a single unit no matter the units size.

and the SM codex states that the unit may choose razorback or rhino, if the unit numbers 10 models, it may choose drop pod. so sure, its a rhino or razorback, but it doesnt say, like it did in the old codex's, " if squad numbers 6 or less, it may choose razorback. if squad numbers 7 to 10 it may take rhino". so its still possible to take a razorback for the squad. Nowhere does it say that if you have more than the max allowed can you NOT buy the transport in the new codex.

Yes, you can take a razorback for a unit of 10 marines, they just cannot embark into it until they number 6 or less models.

Hope that helps.

 

[dewn_moutain]

unforgiven! you are da man!!!! sweet!

 

[ChaosSpaceMarineGuy]

You were probably reading it a RAW instead of taking into consideration the RAI.

 

[dewn_moutain]

You were probably reading it a RAW instead of taking into consideration the RAI.

At the expense of sounding like "THAT GUY", if GW wanted things to be "as intended", they should've written them out, and made them RAW.

I am not a rules lawyer, far from it. I am all about the fun of the game. I just get giddy at the idea of seeing my opponent shooting at a rhino that has nothing in it and watch his face go from confusion to astonishment as i drop a drop pod right next to the unit that shot up the empty rhino. (i spent 4 years in the Army, in a unit that was all about misdirection and shock and awe tactics. When we would get together to play some 40K, we would push the rules to the limit. When you're in the military, you get very good at memorizing regulations and using them to your advantage when its needed. It rubbed off into other areas of my life.)

 

[Deathscythe4722]

Sorry, but the whole fake-out with an empty Rhino doesn't work.

BrB:
page 93:

always make clear to your opponent which squads are embarked in which transport vehicle

page 94

the player must specify if any transport vehicle in reserves is carrying any of the infantry units and/or independant characters in reserve.

 

[ChaosSpaceMarineGuy]

Before I say this, I don't want this to start as an argument since the original post was is not about revealing what is in transports.
Now, Deathscythe4722, if you read the whole section then the first quote falls under the "A Note on Secrecy" section. That whole is section is up to the discretion of the players involved in the game to agree whether or not if they want to reveal the transports occupants.
Your second quote is right on the money.:so_happy:

 

[forkbanger]

The only thing to be agreed upon by the players in A Note on Secrecy is when you reveal force rosters.

"To keep things fair, you should always allow your opponent to read your force roster after a game. In the same spirirt, always make clear to your opponent which squads are embarked in which transport vehicles. However, before starting to deploy their armies, it is a good idea for players to agree whether or not they can read the opponent's force roster before and during the game."

Transport contents are always known.

 

[don_mondo]

Yep, the transport contents is in the same spirit (ie, to be fair) but is not an 'after the game' type event. Oh, and I'm going to want to see your roster pregame anyways, just seen too many illegal or improperly pointed lists over the years to trust your math or you list building skills. In other words, I'm only going to agree that we can read them before and during the game.

 

[cybernomad]

For #1, if you really want to achieve that, make a dev squad or 2 as your Heavy choice and give them a dedicated transport as a razorback. The trick comes with deployment.

When you deploy your tac marines, combat squad them and load one 5 man into their dedicated transport.
When you deploy your dev squad, make sure they are NOT in their own transport.

Now deploy the other combat squad NEXT to the dev's razorback.

On your first turn, load the combat squad into the dev's razorback.

The reason you can't deploy them in the dev's razorback is due to the fact that only the squad that purchased it can deploy in it before the game begins. But once the game has begun, anyone can use the transport.


Hope this helps.

 

[Belthazor Aurellius]

Cybernomad: How? The codex prohibits anyone but the unit purchasing it to ride.

 

[don_mondo]

Cybernomad: How? The codex prohibits anyone but the unit purchasing it to ride.

The only codex that still does that is Daemon Hunters. What codex are you looking at?

 

[dewn_moutain]

hmmmm looks like i have some more reading to do.
cybernomad, yeah i figured out that trick. its super easy to do. and i could do it with all my squads, not just the dev sqds.
and to deathscythe, yes i have to specify, it just doesnt say how. i can write it down and not reveal it.

Not trying to start a flame war or anything, just defending my point of view. i do plan on reading the mentioned pages again tonight after work...

 

[Deathscythe4722]

Haha no.

Read it again. In fact, let me quote it again, because i seem to be turning into some kind of BrB televangelist.

BrB, page 93:

always make clear to your opponent which squads are embarked in which transport vehicle

Note that if you write it down and dont reveal it, you're hardly making it clear. As noted by Forkbanger, the only thing that is variable is when you reveal your force roster. Everything else is revealed before the game starts.

Transport contents are always known.

 

[ChaosSpaceMarineGuy]

@ forkbanger- I have no disagreement with the revealing roster lists after game. Keep in mind that when something says "in the same spirit" then you need to look at the previous sentence(s) and if you do then you will see the "you should" and once again it does not mean you have to or else it would say "you must."

Writing it down before the game on your roster which squad goes where is perfectly fine. If it turns out that the player went against what he wrote down, then that player loses.