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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
So after reading and enjoying several imperial guard novels...(gunheads, deathworld, rebel winter, etc etc) I. Eagerly decided to dive into what everyone seems to be saying is the crown jewel of IG stories....the Gaunts Ghosts series.

Three fourths of the way through the first book I am hating it.

I find myself really despising Gaunt as a Mary Sue, and not really caring about his secret mission to recover the ...yawn...I don't even care what it was.....

Most of all I'm hating the stupid ass rivalry with the Jantine Patricians who are nothing more than 2 dimensional evil cutout evil-doers. Why are they feuding? It seems only because Gaunt is the good guy and therefore they hate him.

Oh and apparently IG regiments shooting each other is ok with high command. Yawn. No wonder we're losing this galaxy.


I really want to like this series....especially since I already bought the next three novels...but so far I'm not feeling it brothers. I find myself wanting to re read Rebel Winter and caring about the Vostroyan firstborn more than the boys from Tanith.


What do you say? Exterminatus?
 

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everyone seems to be saying is the crown jewel of IG stories....the Gaunts Ghosts series
this everyone is a delusional everyone :grin:
The general level of GW stories is meh.
Gaunt Ghost is good. And that should give you an hint! I think however that the storyes are better in my memory than on the actual pages, i fear...
 

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The first two are the weakest, especially the first one. Number two is a composite fo short stories which are ok but not jaw dropping.It gets really good in Necropolis. Builds an epic scope, new characters that make things more colourful and the darkness settles in better.
 

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The general level of GW stories is meh.
WHAT ? :angry:

HERESY !! BURN BURN BURN !!!:threaten:

Just kidding... :laugh:

Dan Abnett is one of the best, but that doesn't make it that good on all his novel. I suspect he accepted to work for GW mainly for the cashflow more than for the love of the hobby or the fluff.

He can be clumsy, tough beyond that, his writing quality his quite good. (He's a professional writer, after all.) but sometimes, he's strangely ripping off other's people work.
 

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:laugh:

yes, i like dan abnett in comparison to others writers. Fact is, i struggled to end his novels and i normally leave unfinished all the others BL books. They just can't...it's a good read, when you are 15 or so. But after then, you just enjoy some sparse moment of good writing and the setting, most of all.
 

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Heresy Online's Pet Furby
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First & Only isn't all that bad.

Ghostmaker is all the original short stories bound together as "memories" to fill out what is a relatively short main story.


Now, Necropolis is where the fun begins! A full on Hive-War? Yes please! :good:
 

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:laugh:

yes, i like dan abnett in comparison to others writers. Fact is, i struggled to end his novels and i normally leave unfinished all the others BL books. They just can't...it's a good read, when you are 15 or so. But after then, you just enjoy some sparse moment of good writing and the setting, most of all.
Hey ! You want really bad novels ? Just try any random BL books, preferably by Swallows, or maybe Annandale or French on one of his bad days, then translate it, in french, by someone who doesn't talk french as his native language in the first place... :crazy:

After that, you will believe there's chaos gods out there ! :russianroulette:

That's THE reason why I started reading Horus Heresy in english... :grin:
 

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Hey ! You want really bad novels ? Just try any random BL books, preferably by Swallows, or maybe Annandale or French on one of his bad days, then translate it, in french, by someone who doesn't talk french as his native language in the first place...
i guess it will be only half as painful as reading A SOng of FIre and Ice in italian... :biggrin:
 

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Yeah, the first two books are a bit meh in my opinion - the real gold is The Saint story arc (books 4-8, I think), personally, although a couple of the later ones are equally as good (Traitor General and Only In Death are both very solid - very seldom I shed a tear over a book but the ending of Only in Death? Fuuuuuuck). If you think Gaunt's a Mary Sue in the first few, you'll probably like the later books more, especially Armour of Contempt (which has a bitching trial scene in it when Gaunt's put on trial for chaos corruption). Hell, he has some pretty major flaws in Honour Guard.

I still think Ciaphas Cain is the best IG series though.
 

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The Emperor Protects
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Yeah it definitely takes a significant increase in quality from Necropolis onwards. The Saint arc as other have said is probably the best, but the ones that come after are still very good.
 

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Rattlehead
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It hasn't aged well. The Gaunts Ghost books are fantastic for when you're getting used to series, but Abnett's writing improved slowly. He learns from his mistakes, and the characters improve.

Admittedly, when THE death occurs (you can see it a mile off), you unfortunately see through it as simply being an author flexing their muscles to show that their characters can die.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Well I understand tha most BL stuff is supposed to be on the lite side.

I'm not expecting War and Peace here, but I do like my antagonists a little more developed and not quite so single minded.

Finally finished first book and....meh. A little reference to Dune thrown in at the end did little to help it.


Sitting here looking at a choice between Ghostmaker and Cadian Blood for my next bit of fluff.

Decisions decisions....
 

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Cadian Blood is pretty meh-tastic. Like, pretty much generic Guard junk.

If you're really hurting, you can jump to Necropolis. That's actually where I started. It's pretty good. There's a few references to Ghostmaker, but nothing dealbreaking. You can read Necropolis.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
SPOILERS




Okay....against my better judgement i started into Ghostmaker. For a while all is good, I am enjoying the flashback vignettes and the assault on the waterworks on Voltemand.

And then it happens......again.......big rich snooty Regiment orders their artillery to bombard the position of Gaunts Ghosts because...

Because...?


Because hell if I know why. No reason is ever given why.

Two books in a row have rich snooty IG regiments attempt to kill their own allies for no reason whatsoever other than the fact that they are rich and snooty and therefore evil.

Tell me now brothers....in the rest of the Gaunt series does it always come down to the IG attacking itself, because if so Ill stop reading right now.
 

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Ill cast my vote for enjoying The first Gaunts Ghosts novel. I never saw Gaunt as a Mary Sue in that book.

He doesn't really do anything super fantastic that is not supposed to be done by great Commissars.

Also the Jantine Patricians are arrogant @$$holes which is why they dont get along with Gaunt. This goes right into Dravare, who is both arrogant and ambitious and so doesn't care about his troops as long as he wins in the end.

Dravare is no different from one of the "Friendly Generals" in Rebel Winter who has the spider legs and is amibtious and doesnt care about his troops, though not to the extant that Dravare does.

Also Dravare is noted to be both pompous and highly influential due to family connections IRRC.
 

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Not a huge fan, but in my opinion there's so much that can be done by trying to make regular beings extraordinary. It's really hard for me to read some of this type of stuff and not roll my eyes. But it is what it is, and you should kind of expect it when you picked it up. I guess there's just so much you can take. I can accept some words of what he tries to do when he moved some concepts to heresy novels. Otherwise I couldn't finish the series even though many of my friends really liked it. I actually feel ashamed because it's not like me to just give up on something I read even if I despise it.

I figure it's a matter of taste because everytime I discuss BL novels with my friends, that series always gets mentioned and I hear very positive things about it.
 

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And then it happens......again.......big rich snooty Regiment orders their artillery to bombard the position of Gaunts Ghosts because...
I thought it was stated pretty clearly? Gaunt's long known emphasis for valuing the lives of his men (note, that the Patricians consider them savages not worth saving) is grating. It's like someone urging you to save your feces for a compost heap...over and over and over again.

Then of course these same piles of shit do something your own vaunted Patricians can't do. That hurts your pride.

Are these commanders upstanding individuals? Hell no. Is it reasonable for a universe to have such men? I think so.

We might look down on these men as unreasonable, but even a few centuries (for some of us, even less!) we were buying and selling people in our own countries and sometimes literally working them to death.

It's about perspective, I suppose.
 

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Most of all I'm hating the stupid ass rivalry with the Jantine Patricians who are nothing more than 2 dimensional evil cutout evil-doers. Why are they feuding? It seems only because Gaunt is the good guy and therefore they hate him.
Isn't it First-and-Only that has a flashback arc spaced in-between chapters to explicitly explain this particular feud? You're missing out if you didn't finish this. Valuable backstory into Gaunt.

Agreeing that Abnett's skills steadily improved through the GG series - though the first few novels aren't bad, they're just outclassed by later writing. Gaunt4ever
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Dravare is no different from one of the "Friendly Generals" in Rebel Winter who has the spider legs and is amibtious and doesnt care about his troops, though not to the extant that Dravare does.

Also Dravare is noted to be both pompous and highly influential due to family connections IRRC.


Im glad you brought up the Vostroyan General in Rebel Winter, because it helps me explain what Im finding so annoying.


I have no problem with rich, snooty, arrogant, pompous, or influential badguys. No problem at all. I do have a problem with baddies who undertake stupid actions that serve no purpose or are extreme overreactions to what the situation called for.

In Rebel Winter the General ordered the heroes to stay behind in an untenable position to cover the retreat of fellow guardsmen. It was a suicide mission true, but one that was called for by the situation at hand.

I accept this as a crappy thing to do, but allowable.

What he did not do was, in the face of massive ork opposition, choose to ignore the true enemy and instead lead loyal Imperial Guard Regiments into an all out attack on the Vostroyan First born.

That would have been insanity.

This is the difference between that story and Gaunt (So far)

I can handle the Ghosts and Patricians having a feud, and I can handle enmity, rivalries, and a few broken bones in that feud.


What I cannot handle is one Guard Regiment blatantly and openly attacking another on the field of battle in the midst of an ongoing planetary campaign, totally ignoring the real enemy to do so.

That's not being a badguy...that's being dumb and completely inappropriately overreacting to the situation.


Similarly with Ghostmaker:

I can handle the rich snooty Bluebloods being annoyed at the scuzzy ghosts. I can believe them being embarrassed at how they succeeded in breaching the lines.


Again, what I cannot handle is them somehow making the leap from annoyance to 'lets call in an artillery strike on our own army just because they don't have good table manners.'

Im sorry, but there are a millions of freaking rag-tag units in the Imperial Guard, and if the few rich ones get their noses bent out of shape every time they get posted nearby...well that's a lot of friendly fire incidents waiting to happen.




(By the way...Jantine PATRICIANS.....Royal 50th BLUE BLOODS.....even the regimental names are synonyms for rich and snooty.)


Now I admit I am just starting the series, and am not aware of things to come, but seeing the same moronic plot device back to back in the first two books just made me shake my head.
 
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