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Rattlehead
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
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Belial

Librarian with Mastery Level 2, Conversion Field, and Terminator Armour

TROOPS
Deathwing Terminators with Plasma Cannon

Deathwing Terminators with Plasma Cannon

Deathwing Terminators with Cyclone Missile Launcher, Thunder Hammers and Storm Shields (n.b. my gaming group chooses to, ah, 'conveniently forget' the FAQ preventing Deathwing Sergeants from bringing Claws or a Hammer)

ELITES
Deathwing Knights

FAST ATTACK
Ravenwing Attack Squadron with 2 Meltaguns

Ravenwing Attack Squadron with 2 Meltaguns

INQUISITORIAL DETACHMENT
Inquisitor with 3 Servo-Skulls

STORMWING FORMATION
Stormraven Gunship with Hurricane Bolters and Multi-Melta

Stormtalon

Stormtalon

2000pts

Terminators come down on turn 1, shoot some people, Stormwing hopes to show up early on (wanted points for a Comms Relay, but nobody can really man it in the list so I didn't bother in the end) and start mowing some infantry - the Stormtalons will probably attach to the Outflanking Ravenwing depending on whether there are any tasty targets.

The hope is that the overwhelming force of the Deathwing and the Stormwing Formation will be enough to break the enemy line and kill or cripple the dangerous aspects of their force, before being hardy enough and hopefully killy enough to work outwards from there.

Definitely issues with not being able to shoot tanks at all, but you have to make sacrifices to be a Terminator sometimes.

Ultimately though? No real plan, it justs looks awesome and has a cool name. Enjoy!
 

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No TH/SS in the PC squads?? Lookit you with your Stormbolters, you could drop the Hurricane Bolters on the SR (pretty god damned useless unless you're taking the TLAC as well- you haven't stated) to kit each squad with three. Still jealous of your group's overlooking of the FAQ. I just....can't bring myself to ignore it. The Libby and Inquisitor pose interesting questions for me.

Can the Libby be involved in a DW squad that is utilizing a rule the Libby doesn't share to come in T1?

Where is the Inquisitor going, in the Stormraven by himself?

I'm kindof at a crossroads with the DW army. I love the T1 DS, but feel very insecure doing it without Servo Skulls. I am then led to not liking my list as much because it accommodates this one silly little model for 9 points worth of game-changing kit. Why not drop the Libby for an ADL w/ Comms Relay, keep the HB sponsons, and use the points left over from the Libby/ADL swap to beef up them PC squads with TH/SSs, leaving the Inquisitor to hide out of LoS and man the Comms relay?
 

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Rattlehead
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Discussion Starter · #3 · (Edited)
No TH/SS in the PC squads?? Lookit you with your Stormbolters, you could drop the Hurricane Bolters on the SR (pretty god damned useless unless you're taking the TLAC as well- you haven't stated) to kit each squad with three. Still jealous of your group's overlooking of the FAQ. I just....can't bring myself to ignore it. The Libby and Inquisitor pose interesting questions for me.
The only reason for the lack of TH/SS is simply a lack of models - it would almost certainly be a better choice to run TH/SS, I agree, and I'm working on fixing the situation but at the moment, I work with what I have :) And yes, the Stormraven has the standard Assault Cannon. I only tend to specify the guns if I change them from the default, which can be confusing on a model that can have multiple loadouts.

Can the Libby be involved in a DW squad that is utilizing a rule the Libby doesn't share to come in T1?
Terminator Armour gives DA Special Characters the Vengeful Strike and Deathwing Assault special rules, so he can do it just fine. And I'd need to check the wording but I guess he might get twin-linked Witchfires, maybe?

Where is the Inquisitor going, in the Stormraven by himself?
Probably, there or behind LOS blocking terrain. As long as he's not First Blood, I don't care if he dies. Servo-Skulls are still great at 11.33 points each.

I'm kindof at a crossroads with the DW army. I love the T1 DS, but feel very insecure doing it without Servo Skulls. I am then led to not liking my list as much because it accommodates this one silly little model for 9 points worth of game-changing kit. Why not drop the Libby for an ADL w/ Comms Relay, keep the HB sponsons, and use the points left over from the Libby/ADL swap to beef up them PC squads with TH/SSs, leaving the Inquisitor to hide out of LoS and man the Comms relay?
I *generally* run some Greenwing and cut down significantly on the amount of Deathwing stuff, since Deathwing either rolls face or gets annihilated depending entirely on how well you can roll 2+ saves.

Interesting suggestion, but I really like the Librarian - re-rolls to hit on Terminators makes them a pretty dangerous melee threat rather than being some dudes who can kinda shoot and kinda punch (why TH/SS are better - rather than some admittedly mediocre firepower, they get great resilience against the kind of things you want them to fight - although I've never used my TH/SS and not wished they were DWK).

Deathwing have a lot of problems, yeah, always have; I'm looking into the idea of supporting them with Drop Pods, but I don't know if that's going to work out yet.
 

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Terminator Armour gives DA Special Characters the Vengeful Strike and Deathwing Assault special rules
Amazing. Chaplain in TDA here I come!!

As long as he's not First Blood, I don't care if he dies. Servo-Skulls are still great at 11.33 points each.
Straight up.

I really like the Librarian - re-rolls to hit on Terminators makes them a pretty dangerous melee threat
While I agree that Prescience would be awesome for these dudes, all of my lists these days have enough ML points to make you never get that power off. Maybe I'm biased, but my buddy always runs 6ML points so I have taken to running between 6 and 10. I tried just using the one Inquisitor with my Guard and never got a power off once because he would use all of his dice to DtW on me for that one useful power. Because of my opponents, I either gun for Psychic Phase supremacy or completely ignore it.

I'm looking into the idea of supporting them with Drop Pods, but I don't know if that's going to work out yet.
I use my BA as allies for DW with three Drop Pods and their marvelous DoA rule for any supporting units. Configurations have been (all from Combined Arms Detachments):

2x Fragioso, MG Assault squad
Fragioso, Libbynaught, MG Assault squad
2x Fragioso, 9x DC w/Reclusiarch

It's been glorious. DW and two DPs show up T1, Jump troops pretty reliably T2, Stormravens and the last DP pretty much always by T3. I haven't play-tested my most current musings (using the third combination) but I'm pretty stoked on it.
 

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Can I make a CRAZY suggestion?

I don't know points off the top of my head, so forgive me if I'm spewing idiocy...

Drop Belial for Sammael, which converts your Ravenwing into troops. Drop your Deathwing completely, or just run a squad or two in the elite section.

Instead, use the GK Nemesis Strike Force detachment. You can get a VERY good Librarian at Mastery 3 if you wanted, fairly cheap. No conversion field, but he's got Adamant Will to start, or you can give him something fun like FNP termie armor.

You can have cheap GK Terminators, and while you can't go TH/Shield, you CAN give everyone Hammers, or cheaper Halberds (S6 with Hammerhand) and go to town in close combat. No plasma, but you can have Psycannons if you'd like.

Plus, with that particular detachment, you still get your turn 1 drop, with a free run on top of a round of shooting. Not twin-linked, but still solid (and hey, nothing stops Libby from having Prescience).


Of course, this goes completely against the part where you mentioned that you were working with what you already have in your inventory, but it's another way to do a similar job.
 

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I had a 6 man GK Terminator squad from a trade months back, they're now a ML3 Libby w/ Hammer and the squad is equipped with a Stave, 3x Halberds (Justicar included), and a Hammer. LOVE them. The Libby doesn't come standard with Adamantium Will though I don't think, I had to get that from the Warding Stave in the squad.
 

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Librarians start with a Stave as their standard kit. You can upgrade to a Hammer, or switch out the Stave for free to any other weapon. In my head, that's 'to start'.
 

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Librarians start with a Stave as their standard kit.
DUH! I get it now. They can take any weapon they want for free aside from the 5 point Hammer (which is very worth it), I never thought of them coming with any one weapon in specific. Also, edited my above post to say that the Libby has a Hammer. It's just too inexpensive an upgrade to pass up for me.
 

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My only issue is the 'rule of cool'... I dislike the visual of the Libby with the hammer. Maybe I'll give mine a DA Halberd of Caliban as a suitable big-ass weapon.
 

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My only issue is the 'rule of cool'
How's this guy for ya? Just posed his hammer arm the other day, and only just now noticed that hideous bit of flash on his weapons. Plus I need to drill out his Stormbolter...yadda yadda pictures:



 

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Not bad. I can't paint flesh to save my life, so mine will be helmeted, and I couldn't find enough points for a storm bolter (check my list in the Gk forums, please!), so I'll end up using an open hand and a book, I think.
 

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check my list in the Gk forums, please!
I dunno if you're going to want me to, I didn't realize the stupid Stormbolter was a 5 point upgrade :blush: OUT COMES THE KNIFE! I got these models mostly put together and have been hacking and slashing my way through them since the new 'dex hit. This squad and Librarian represents my whole GK army.
 

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Rattlehead
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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
I haven't forgotten you, my wonderful DAngly posters - my internet's packed up and no way can I write a proper response on my phone with glacial 3G.

In short, yes, GK do what DA do way better. Yes, DA are essentially entirely invalidated by SM and GK. Yes, I always use my Orks unless I'm fighting a close friend. No, that's not going to stop me from using Codex: Space Marines (Alpha Release, Dark Green Edition) for at least some part of my lists, even if I 'ally' in SM as the Greenwing CA detachment.

Good discussion going on here.
 

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Yes, DA are essentially entirely invalidated by SM and GK.
C'mon now, they still have access to fliers via the Stormwing formation and they can take way better (as far as my opinion goes) equipment than Grey Knights. Been banging around a list because I have a crap ton of Terminators. Not enough TH/SS arms, but many Terminators:

Belial - TH/SS

5x DWK

Mortis Dread - TLLCs

Mortis Dread - TLLCs

5x DW - CML, 4x TH/SS

5x DW - CML, 4x TH/SS

5x DW - PC, 3x TH/SS

GK Libby - ML3, Hammer

5x GK Termies - 3x Halberds, Hammer, Stave, Incinerator

Vindicare Assassin

You will be terminated. To bump this up to 2.5k (where my games are headed) I would add another two PC DW squads to bring this gong show up to 37 Terminators, 2 Dreadnoughts, and an Assassin.
 

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Rattlehead
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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
My problem with that is that you simply don't have an answer to Orks or Guard bringing a bunch of dudes. Your 25 dudes are going to be overwhelmed through weight of fire or bodies, and Terminators don't have the damage output to give as good as they get (Deathwing Knights are the closest you get, and if they get charged by a squad of 20 or 30 Boyz it still gets pretty rough).

The only thing DA can do better than Space Marines is bring Terminators as Troops (at which they're strictly worse than GK - 11pts per model is a HUGE price to pay to upgrade your Force Weapon to a Power Fist and get Fearless at the cost of one-turn Battle Focus, Hammerhand and GK heavy weapons) and bringing three Land Raider Crusaders with the Bolter Banner and Power Field Generators. If you want Power-Armoured dudes at all, Space Marines do it better. If you want Terminators, Grey Knights do it better.

Deathwing just has a laughably low damage output which pushes it out of the realms of viability, which is a shame because Terminators look really cool. That's not stopping me from trying, certainly, but I don't pretend Dark Angels are a straight downgrade from Space Marines and Grey Knights.
 

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I dig your points on why DW aren't as viable as they were in past editions, I guess being a BA player primarily I've been used to getting the shaft since 6th hit so it's all par for the course in my books :laugh:

The closest thing I come to facing in terms of a horde army is my buddy's 90+ Marine army, which is pretty devastating at 12". Even been on the receiving end of over 100 Bolter shots? I know the list is mad thin, but I've won with less before. Maybe I'm just a sucker for punishment...
 

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My thoughts, basically: If you're gonna do a termiforce, do a termiforce. To hell with what you're going to expect. If you're running Ntaw's list, you'll have blast temptlates to help absorb the hordes, and an incinerator (never count out the incinerator). You could also use Dreadknights instead of the Mortis... you'd lose range (but could add teleporting) and use Psycannons or Torrent flamers.

If we're sticking purely to DA (which I'm more than willing to do), I'd go Plasma over Missile every day. Mostly because that's DA's bag. You've seen some of my DA lists before; I love RavenDeath lists, hate that White Scars can mostly do it better. I'll run Corvex with its plasma cannon, DW with their Plasma Cannons, RWASs with their plasmas... and then just lots and lots of bolters. The squads fail against hordes, but I just don't care.
 

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Something I've considered is running the DW squads with BOTH the CML and PC. Perfectly legal as per Codex wording, but a lot of points. @Xabre, I would have totally kept at least two of them with PCs but then I had a 15 point vacuum that nothing could fill.

I've also been toying with DW lists supported by BA Drop Pods and also supported by Imperial Fists, but I think once the glue sets and I have everything together I'll be trying out the above one first.
 

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OK, if this list isn't a punch in the DA-ngly parts I think I've missed the message. Say hello to my good friend, T1 Deep Strike:

Belial - TH/SS

5x DWK

5x DW - PC, 3x TH/SS

5x DW - PC, 3x TH/SS

Libby - ML2, JP

Furioso - HF, FC, DP

Furioso - HF, FC, DP

Priest - JP, PS

10x man Assault squad - 2x MG, PF, DP

10x man Assault squad - 2x F, 2x HF

Ordo Xenos Inquisitor - 3x Skulls

Two Drop Pods and three Terminator squads showing up T1 assisted by Servo Skulls, with many flame templates reliably coming in T2 (DoA) and the third Pod showing up whenever the dice gods please. Moving this up to 2.5k, I would add in:

GK Libby - ML3, Hammer

5x GK Terminators - 3x Halberds, Hammer, Stave, Incinerator

a Vindicare or Callidus assassin

I love my vindicare, it is probably the coolest friggin' thing I've ever played but in a T1 DS army having a Callidus show up wherever the hell I want it to causing even more disruption than I currently am sounds....well, righteously awesome.

Whaddaya think boys?
 
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