Warhammer 40k Forum and Wargaming Forums banner

1 - 20 of 22 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
5 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Hello, I’m a UK student doing my A-levels this year, and for my Design & Technology project I’m basing it on my favorite hobby, Warhammer.
Part of the project requires me to have feedback from a 3rd party - a "Client". The client's role in my project is to give feedback, advice and to give the project direction.
So I would be really grateful to get feedback from anything l post on here.

A little about me
I've been playing Warhammer 40k for nearly 8 years, and my main army is Black Templars, totaling around 4000 points. I've also got a Lost and Damned army of about 1500 points.

I’ve been collecting Black Templars since I started, slowly adding new units, since the release of the Black Templars’ own codex I’ve been paying them a lot more attention.

My Lost and Damned army started off as a conversion idea really. I was thinking of making a Chaos-conversion of a Leman Russ, and I had been helping a friend with a basilisk conversion for his Iron Warriors Chaos army, when I decided to check out the Lost and Damned army list in the Eye of Terror codex to see if I could make a fun army out of it. Basically it consists of 2 Leman Russ battle tanks, a basilisk, some traitor imperial guard, and Nurgle/Khorne themed mutants.

About the project
For the project I'm going to be designing and constructing a war-games table for Warhammer 40K. The rest of the specification of which is up for suggestion from you guys.
Regularly I will update this thread with information on my project, so check back and feel free to leave any feedback suggestions or any comments.

----PROJECT PARTICIPATION PART 1----

Ok guys, to get the ball rolling here’s a few questions:
1. What’s your gaming area like - where do you usually play? (Kitchen table, floor, a GW store, a gaming room. On a board, on a matt, on a cloth. What size do you prefer? 4x4 6x4, etc – tell me, I want to know!)
2. What sort of board do you like to play on? - your favored place. What’s the sort of place you look forward to having a game – what sort of things do you expect? (do you like playing on city, desert, rocky, grassy boards. Perhaps describe your favorite board and what makes it so good?)
3. What’s your view on themed boards? – do you like them, what do you think makes them good/bad ideas. Examples are things themed around a particular scenario, such as a bunker defense board with perhaps a stronghold on a hill with gun emplacements etc. Or a board based on a war of attrition with trenches on either side and a crater covered no-man’s land between. (or anything else you want to suggest for that matter).
4. If I were designing this board for you, what criteria would it have to fill? – think about things like storage, terrain type, what features you would like too see.

Answer them as fully as you want, or as sparingly as you choose, you don’t need to answer them all but the more the better.

Thanks for your help,
Cypher
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,445 Posts
My gaming club has no board per se, but rather drags a few tables together, throws a dropcloth over them, and places terrain pieces on top. Works quite nicely. On the home front, my house is too small for a full blown table, but i have been helping a small group of friends to build a table in a friend's basement, themed around mars. (Red soil, short hills, outposts dotting the table, things like that.)

I prefer large tables rather than small, as my grey knights tend to die less when there's space between me and the enemy, and i love to see the look on my opponents face when my entire SM army infiltrates across 2/3 of the table and totally blows his plans to high hell. But that's more of a personal thing, as my armies are tuned towards large tables.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
804 Posts
I usually play on 6x4 and for personal preference, fortresses or city style boards is what i enjoy playin on :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,688 Posts
My board that am am still in the progress of building is a nice canvas mat stapled to a 4x6 piece of high-density foam.

http://www.thewarstore.com/battlefieldgreenmat.html <-- That is the mat, and where I got it from.

I'm in the process of making grassland/hilly area pieces of terrain with ruined buildings and trees.

I generally just like a normal table like I described.

Themed tables are great, but...Static. Its uncomfortable to play a Apocalypse game on a pristine jungle, you know?

Storage is easy, simply take terrain off and but in a box gently, and set mat-stapled-to-board against the wall.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
49 Posts
I would agree that a themed table is cool, but would get boring as players learned what the critical spots to take were. Maybe if you could make it modular without making it look like a modular setup.

I have also been toying with the idea of making streams and such that could be moved around to change up the gameplay

but hey..... I'm still a noob
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,588 Posts
Cypher10110 said:
Hello, I’m a UK student doing my A-levels this year, and for my Design & Technology project I’m basing it on my favorite hobby, Warhammer.
dude join the club me too :D I'm designing a display case which you can tell is speciffically for warhammer without anything being written on it or anyone seeing any desgn work....its tough. Oh btw mine is for A2
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4 Posts
1) I have nowhere to play at the moment :(

2) I used to play in a guys basement who had a sandbox table...it wasnt hard on the mini's like i first thought it would be and it was alot easier to change around hills and such.

He also had a plywood top painted grey on one side for urban fights and green for wooded fights

3) Themed tables are nice as long as they are still general in theme. By this I mean an urban table is nice but if you only have 3 buildings and a grey square it can get boring.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,648 Posts
1. What’s your gaming area like -

*** My gaming area used to be a separate room (Dad's Room) until the In-laws arrived to set up camp. Now my son uses this room, though the gaming still survives here. We have several shelving areas, a stereo, enough terrain for a 4x16 table, and a 4x6 table. It's sometimes tempting to over-crowd the table.
The local gaming store is about a half-hour away. Its an Indy Retailer and has a local gaming club as well as 10 gaming tables (4x8 each), and enough terrain to make them all seem crowded.

2. What sort of board do you like to play on?

*** I don't suppose that I have a favourite board style. I know that Cityfight usually looks very nice, but like the simple 'green' board, it has been overdone in my opinion. I like the look of scrubland styled boards best, I suppose. There is still the opportunity for plenty of varied terrain, and it gives a look that is not too common in my area.

3. What’s your view on themed boards?

*** Themed boards are cool, but I'd not build a board simply for one scenario. Terrain pieces can take care of the job. Playing specific scenarios in a campaign setting is awesome fun, and having dedicated terrain pieces on an appropriate board just increases this awesomeness.

4. If I were designing this board for you, what criteria would it have to fill?

*** Simple, I suppose. Think of it from a gaming perspective. The board should be of a minimum of 4 feet wide, and generally 6 or 8 feet long. The top should be textured to match the terrain concept and painted accordingly. Generally, a small railing around the board is necessary to keep leaning gamers from damaging the edges of the board. At least 25% of the boards area should be represented in terrain. Terrain should be designed to match the board's concept and should blend as seamlessly into the landscape as possible. Terrain should consist of various LoS blocking pieces, including area terrain and impassable terrain, as well as the common hills and difficult terrain. But most of all... the table and terrain set should be easily usable by the players. Models should not find too much difficulty moving through difficult terrain (no matter the play on words), and should not fall from hills because of steep slopes. Also, when placed, the terrain set should not obviously benefit one player over another. This will greatly depend on placement by the players, but assuring that the terrain set is varied can prevent the set from becoming more of a factor in a game than the players armies.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
Hello people!
First of all, thanks for the great responses! Keep it up :biggrin: I’ve had more than I expected already, and I’d like to apologise for not getting back to you sooner.

I would have liked to post this last week but unfortunately things got in the way. (Hope everyone had a good Halloween by the way :biggrin:)

I’ve been spending the past few weeks going through the responses and doing some background research on construction and planning – using the internet and official games-workshop books (”How to Make Wargames Terrain”, was very helpful).

A few have asked about photos – Yes. I will send photos at each stage so you guys can see what’s going on and be involved with the construction too. I’ll need some advice and feedback from you guys and handy tips and other info will be useful at this point and throughout the construction.

Ok down to business – I have here the specification. This is basically points that my designs have to fit into – criteria they have to meet, and will be assessed against. I have split it into primary and secondary criteria. These criteria are based on my research and the responses from you guys.

I want to start drawing up design proposals, my initial ideas for games boards. I’ll scan them and post them up here as I do them.

Before I start I thought I’d just post my specification up here to see if anyone has any thoughts or suggestions for alterations. Any constructive criticism is welcome ^^
--------

Product Specification
Primary Criteria
  • The board must have a playing area of 6’ by 4’
  • The board must be suitable for games of Warhammer 40,000
  • The board must be suitable for deployment types C D and E.
  • The board must have around 25% terrain coverage, with half that blocks line of sight and half that provides cover.
  • At least 50% of the terrain pieces should be on removable bases.
Secondary Criteria
  • The board should be sectioned for ease of transport and storage.
  • The board should be of the “sandwich” construction – with a rigid base and an easily sculpted top.
  • The board should include obstacles and fortifications suitable for a mission that uses the “fortifications” rule. (i.e. 6 rows of razor wire, 6 rows of tank traps, and one or more bunkers/firing pits)
  • The board should have a desert or cityscape theme.

--------

Everything here is either based on a majority vote from the forums or advice from my research. Let me know what you guys think ^^
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,648 Posts
Usually, making your gaming table out of 3 2x4ft sections is fine. Some go so far as to make 6 2x2ft sections, but this then becomes (imho) too much to worry about, and the cracks between pieces make judging distances too easy.

Also, think about at least one piece of terrain that would make a suitable center objective. Some missions depend upon this key piece.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5 Posts
Discussion Starter #13 (Edited)
First Design

Ok I’ve FINALLY :biggrin: got my first design to show you guys. Unfortunately I’ve been having some problems with my scanner so I wont be able to send you all my crappy pencil sketches – I’ve only got my Google sketch-up stuff (whether that’s good or bad is up to you ^^). What do you think?

DESIGN 1
For my first design I decided on a combination of a desert and city themed board inspired by a modular cityscape board at a Games Workshop store. My board has an urban area in the middle, and desert on either side.
I started with a plan view sketch and then proceeded to render the design in 3D.



The objects labelled “regular model”, “large model”, etc - are there for scaling purposes. From left to right they are roughly the same size as: a Space marine, a Terminator, an Attack Bike/Dreadnought base, a Leman Russ battle tank, and a Land Raider. The black strips represent vehicle tracks.

Here is a plan view.



Here is an exploded view – showing all the components.


The raised tiers would be constructed from High density polystyrene, and the base board would be constructed from chipboard, ply-board, or MDF.



This shows the scale shapes on the roads, showing the roads are about 3 regular models wide, just wide enough for a regular sized tank.

The grey Triangles in the design are to represent the modular bases for the urban section. These bases can contain ruins, rubble
Here are some images of ruins designs based on a guide in the Warhammer 40,000 rulebook.





And here are images of the Ruins substituted onto the board.



Features
  • The board is in three sections measuring 2’ by 4’.
  • The two desert sections have 2 raised tiers, to add a difference in height across the board.
  • The city section has roads running through it (pictured as the grey strips) and between the roads - tarmac areas (pictured as the black areas). The main feature of the city section however, is the removable triangle bases; they can be moved around and placed in any combination on the board. Each triangle represents a building/part of building, or a rubble pile on a triangular base. These triangles would then be able to be placed on the board wherever the players choose.
Options
There are other details I would explore if I take this design further:
  • Rock formations (on movable bases)
  • Extra triangular based modular pieces of rubble, low ruins, etc. as well as ruined buildings.
  • One or more larger square based buildings that would be the same size as two of the triangular bases.
  • Road-Blocking obstacles made from rubble or walls.
  • A set of obstacles such as razor wire and tank traps for special missions.
  • Adding an extra surface, or extending the existing one along the long board edges to place miniatures drinks books etc.
  • Adding a lip so that dice do not roll off the table.
In summary
This is a 6’ by 4’ board, made up of 3 equal sections. One section has a modular urban area, the other sections are desert. The modular nature of the urban section and the ability to move the sections of he board into different combinations allows for flexibility. There is also potential to add more terrain pieces, and would be more than enough to fulfil the 25% coverage recommendation.

---Project Participation---
Let me know what you guys think:
1.What do you like about the design?
2.What do you think could be improved?
3.Rate my design out of 10.

Comments and suggestions welcome ^^ and I should have a second design soon.

[EDIT: I Have resized the pictures, should be easier to see]
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
66 Posts
I wish I planned out my 40k terrain so well.

The design is great, just the right amount of static terrain and modular sections.
Small blocks of wood cut in triangles make good barriers; tooth picks and twisted wire make good barbwire.
Also a lip is a very good idea, I have seen a good number of dice careen off the edge.
It would help you more to finish the main part first, and then add additional pieces that can go on top. Each one added will multiply the number of variations you can have.

I built a table using the 2'x4' table section method and it works well. My terrain is made up of modular 1'x1' sections. Each one is 1" tall base so that all ditches canals and trenches can be cut into it. I have a canal set, a large trench set (I blame imperial armor 5) and a few craters. There are also a good number of blank sections to fill in spaces and to put other free standing terrain on. It makes great city fight terrain and each piece added increases the number of combinations.
One other suggestion is maybe a tower or 2. It takes the game vertical and makes a great place for infiltrators, heavies and objectives. These could be oil tanks or watch towers.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5 Posts
Discussion Starter #15 (Edited)
Second Design

Sorry for the delay, but I think you guys will like this ^^

Ok so here's the concept:
a modular trench board of three sections that can be arranged in as many different ways as possible, and I've come close to the limit - with 24 unique layouts on this one ^^

Design 2
This board basically was born from wanting a trenched board but more versatile than one you might find in a Games Workshop store.

Here’s a plan view.

As you can see the trenches run from short board edge to short board edge.

The board is in three sections, each constructed of two layers a hard underneath with a softer top – probably chipboard base with polystyrene top. Here’s an exploded view.


The important thing about the design of the trenches is the fact that in any combination of the three boards will work. These pictures show how the trenches line up.


And this Picture shows some example combinations (there are 48 combinations in total, with half of these being duplicates – giving 24 unique combinations).


With the basic board sorted I went on to designing some terrain to populate it. Craters, Bunkers, Razor Wire, and Tank Traps – all valid for use with the Fortifications rules.

Here’s the Bunker.



Here’s the Crater.


Here’s the Razor Wire (Just really a 3D illustration of the Packaged Razor Wire – Pictured).


Here’s the Tank Traps.


And this picture shows the scale of the Razor Wire and Tank Traps.


And Finally – this is the table featuring its terrain pieces in all its glory.


Features - Summary
Design includes:
  • 6’ by 4’ Three sectioned board.
  • 6 Rows of Tank Traps
  • 6 Rows of Razor Wire
  • 2 Bunkers
  • 8 Large Craters
  • All terrain fully movable.
  • 3 unique board sections with built-in trenches.
  • 24 different board layouts.
----Project Participation - Design 2----
So what do you think?
1.What do you like about the design?
2.What don’t you like about the design?
3.Rate my design out of 10.

Keep the comments and suggestions coming – one more design on the way.

[EDIT: Spellchecked]
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,988 Posts
Feedback.

In general the presentation is to a very high standard so thanks for that. You show what you are doing and how in a way that's very easy to understand.

Design 1.
1.What do you like about the design?

This all looks very good. However the road layout doesn't seem right in my opinion. I suggest you look at some plans of small settlements - you will find that there tends to be a road (or river sometimes, or whatever) and buildings are put next to it. In your design you have buildings in the middle and roads that go around the outsides, which seems a bit odd.

2.What do you think could be improved?

Take some of the functionality you have in the second design and incorporate it here. You could have a road going the "long" way across the table that went up and down the hills, maybe across a gorge, river or something, and could be set up in any combination. The "town" board could have a road going in the other direction (or a river or something else of course), making a cross roads with a few buildings around it. That way you would have a believable town of the sort that tend to appear at junctions in trade routes. Additional types of buildings from the basic burned out tenament block then suggest themselves. A fuel depot, maybe a repair yard, some kind of security post and a hotel, for example.

It's interesting to have two of the boards with a higher edge. This restricts your options for how you set up the board a little, but it also makes the board a bit more realistic overall. Maybe each section should have a high and a low edge.

3.Rate my design out of 10.

7 or so. The quality is very high but you could go a bit further on the detail planning.

Design 2.

1.What do you like about the design?

I really like this. Very versatile and looks good for playing games on. It's nice how you have arranged it to be set up in so many different ways. and with so much extra stuff like barbed wire and tank traps you can add.

2.What do you think could be improved?

I think it's great so not much to change, though some things you might consider:

Making the trench walls vertical (apart from at the ramps) would make a few things easier. For example I think that where two boards meet you will find that the angle of slope may not necessarily match up if an angled trench meets a straight one. Also you can't stand figures on a 45 degree slope so these areas are "wasted" space in a game.

You could try having bunkers that are dug into the ground rather than built above it. After all if you are digging trenches anyway it would make sense to do this as dug in bunkers are massively tougher. The downside of this is that they wouldn't be as flexible. An option here would be that you could have roughly square holes in your boards into which you could fit bunkers, ramps or tank emplacements as required. Your current bunker design is very good, but it seems slightly strange to make buildings standing above the trenches when you don't have to. Dig for victory!

Having said that, it is still nice to have some relatively big stuff that can block lines of fire and prevent heavy weps totally dominating. Some burned out farm houses, wrecked vehicles or dead trees maybe, or just some hills.

3.Rate my design out of 10.

9/10. Very nice.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
339 Posts
1.What do you like about the design?
Design 1-

Nice idea though roads are not right as someguy has suggested

I like the combination of desert and urban terrain which lends itself to numerous scenarios e.g invasion from the desert to city for a recon mission, objective grabbing etc all makes the game 'feel right'

2.What do you think could be improved?

Not very realistic setup- roads should be straight. Also I just want to make sure that the 3 different boards could fit together in different ways so you could have hills in the middle rather than at each side. Bear in mind that big hill at either side of the board with a vally in the middle makes for dull games dominated by firepower.

3.Rate my design out of 10.

8- nice idea but room for improvement

Design 2

1.What do you like about the design?

It will look really nice.
2.What do you think could be improved?

I've played a few games on 'trench' boards and in my experience, they don't really work. The trenches are fiddly, models fall down into them, it's difficult to place vehicles, the rules are unclear on how to use them, get out of them, in to them etc etc.

Also trench warfare just wouldn't work in 40k- stuff just moves too fast, deepstrikes, skims etc.

The games become similar due to the unvarying nature of the terrain and everyone just goes back to playing on a normal board.

3.Rate my design out of 10.

6- will look really cool but not great for gaming (in my experience)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5 Posts
Discussion Starter #18
Design 3

Ok guys, here’s my third and final idea.
After the trench board I was racking my brain at something that could top it, and a friend of mine bought the “Cities of Death” codex, so naturally I took a look. It really made me want to try and design a city board that we could play “Cities of Death” on so here it is:

Design 3
This board is more about the buildings themselves than the board. And I’m intending of using machine cut MDF for pretty much everything in this, As I can get the computer to cut out all the windows and doors in the walls and then do the detail myself.

Here’s The Board

As you can see it’s all buildings (I was thinking about also adding razor-wire and tank traps from the trench board – let me know if you think that’d be a good idea or not, or maybe some barricades or something)

The board is in three sections, each constructed probably using MDF or Chipboard, or maybe ever hardboard (It’s normally pretty expensive but a friend of mine has offered me a 6’ by 4’ board of it – it would be much lighter but still really tough and would take paint well so maybe)

The buildings themselves take up the space of one of the sections exactly (each square base being 8” by 8”)


This makes for pretty easy storage, as it’ll happily stack one on top of the other.


There are 3 types of buildings, Triangle Based Ruins, Square Based Buildings, and The Centerpiece.

Triangle Based Ruins
Here are the Triangle Based Ruins, there are 10, with 5 different types.


Their Design is very similar to the ruins from the first board design, but with more respect to the height of the models, and dimensions that will fit into 8” squares.

Their construction is pretty simple, two walls and 1 to 3 floors.


Square Based Buildings
There are 5 Different types of Square Based Buildings.


1 Here is a more detailed view of the first square based building.
This is building would have looked like the third building originally, but battle has demolished one corner and damaged the lower windows.


2 Here is a more detailed view of the second square based building.
This is the tallest of the buildings, and has taken minimal damage. Notice that it also features a ladder so that models may travel from the ground floor up to higher levels.


3 Here is a more detailed view of the third square based building.
This building is made from the original template (set to 3 floors) and has no damage added.


4 Here is a more detailed view of the fourth square based building.
This is the most damaged building, only a small amount is left standing – and is the only square based building that has 3 walls. It is also the lowest of the buildings; with only 1 storey.


5 And finally, here is a more detailed view of the fifth square based building.
This building has a removable roof so that models can be placed inside. The highlighted close-up of the corner shows the lip that the roof rests on (to stop the roof from falling in).


For all these buildings I used a basic template that has all the measurements of the third building. I simply cut away the template to emulate battle damage. The second building is only slightly different as I added an extra floor.

Centerpiece
Finally we are left with the centerpiece, a large building that occupies the space of 4 of the square-based buildings and is 3 stories tall.

Here is the centerpiece.


And here is an exploded view.


The centerpiece has 4 floors that models can use – each with stairs up to the next level. The floors and stairs can be taken out to give players access to the interior. Some of the windows are boarded up to represent the building being used as a stronghold.

The centerpiece is actually so big that a small game or special scenario could be played solely inside this building – like Kill-Team even a Combat Patrol.

NOTE: One problem which I didn’t really think about when I was designing the building is that its SO big that it would take 5 turns to reach the top from the bottom, so if you choose this design I will make the building one level lower so that it could actually be used, and maybe have 1 big staircase rather than one on each level

Below is a ground-plan of the interior of the centerpiece. (Where the numbered stairs lead to the numbered gap on the next level)


And Finally – this is the table set up ready for a game.


Features - Summary
Design includes:

  • [*] 6’ by 4’ Three sectioned board.


    [*] 10 Triangular Based Ruins.


    [*] 10 Square Based Buildings.


    [*] 1 Centerpiece.


    [*] 1/3 Board Coverage.


    [*] All buildings on movable bases.
----Project Participation - Design 3---
So what do you think?
1.What do you like about the design?
2.What don’t you like about the design?
3.Rate my design out of 10.

Keep the comments and suggestions coming? And please give each board a score out of ten if you can, so I can write up an evaluation and finalize the design. I want to have a decision off you guys before the New Year – Which will mean I’ll start making it in the first week of January ^^

---- Which Design is you’re favorite and why? ----
Design with the most votes will be the one I make!
 

·
The Traveler
Joined
·
2,559 Posts
Good lord, man! I wish I had planned out Kasr Lutien like that! It wouldn't be so rambling and disorganized....I always liked nonmodular boards better...they're easier to build, easier to organize, and you can make some kick-ass boards! (The Lustria diorama at GD France comes to mind). I know I always entertained the idea of a half-trench board and a half-city, like a seige was going on. I later built a board where Chaos troops had already breached the city walls, with trenches and jungle outside the city.

I like that second board of yours. Trench boards have a lot of character.
-Dirge
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
78 Posts
1st Board - Looks strange but with some rock formations, small buildings outside in the desert is very playable. I find the roads strange.

2nd Board - It's well planned out, looks cool, but having played on a trenchboard they play horribly. Whoever builds one it's typically a sign they play a shooty non-mobile army, and want an edge against assault style armies. At least thats the guy I know who built ones excuse.

3rd Board - Best of the 3 IMHO. More akin to the style of table I typically play on at tournaments. As always there is a comfort factor in familiarity with a particular style or design.


However my suggestion is to combine the design elements for all 3. For example the occasional trench battle is fun. So take the trench table make it a little less trench crazy, the gap filling pieces could look like roads. Allow for terrain pieces to fill in the trenches.
Or bridges to lay across the trenches, or both.

You wind up with a table that can be both urban, or open. Trench warfare, street to street warfare, or bridge crossing warfare with open or urban terrain. Or mix both.

You wind up with a single table that can play like several tables.

Conversly design the bridges so they are flat topped, with pop off railings. Then you can flip the trench filler/street pieces inverted, and then you can lay them upside down on top of the bridge pieces to make a rolling sandune style table.

So many combo it would be an awesome table. Just the type of table I would want at my house so me and my friends could have 1 table that constantly different.

Give the buildings a more desert look.
 
1 - 20 of 22 Posts
Top