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Discussion Starter #1
It is called a rifle, yet the gun seems snubbed as an SMG. Not to mention I am still waiting to see a 40k picture that has them firing from the sights and not from the hip.

I think I read their is like a link up display for their helmet from their bolter, but its still more accurate to put the butt to your shoulder.

I have seen some pics where they do have like red dot sights and other scopes, and its in the fluff, but you can't help but go, your not really going to be able to hit shit with a gun without a shoulder brace and having a 12 inch barrel.
 

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Why do marines need a brace? Power armour is quite solid, and designed to bear the brunt of the recoil

images often show scouts aiming from the shoulder

The bolt is travelling alot faster than 21st cent bullets as they have have a rocket source, this added speed would help to reduce deviation

But hey this is 40k you can't expect 100% accuracy
 

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I know very little about guns (I've never even fired one), but I'll try my best to answer your questions.

The bolter's ammunition is a little different than typical guns. The bolt is a two-staged rocket. The first phase is just enough to get the bolt out of the barrel and travel a bit, then the second phase kicks in for the real speed. The bolter doesn't need a long barrel as the final ignition doesn't occur until the bolt has already left the barrel.

This can also explain why they fire from the hip. The initial kicker charge doesn't have much power and therefore little recoil. They can fire from the hip and not worry about it messing their aim.

Plus they're 7 1/2 foot superhumans wearing power armor, too. That could probably help reduce the recoil.
 

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I believe there are some models like that, such as the sternguard. Then again, Astartes don't really have to aim so much because the enemy tends to be right in their face for most of the time. Plus, seeing as they are firing rocket propelled rounds, and aiming (for the most part) at massive targets, it doesn't require a good deal of accuracy to hit with. Plus the factor that Space Marines have BS4, meaning they can shoot straighter than a Guardsman with their eyes closed.
 

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It is called a rifle, yet the gun seems snubbed as an SMG. Not to mention I am still waiting to see a 40k picture that has them firing from the sights and not from the hip.

I think I read their is like a link up display for their helmet from their bolter, but its still more accurate to put the butt to your shoulder.

I have seen some pics where they do have like red dot sights and other scopes, and its in the fluff, but you can't help but go, your not really going to be able to hit shit with a gun without a shoulder brace and having a 12 inch barrel.
and this bothers you more than the fact it only fires 24 inch max ( whats that if we compare scale , about 120ft ):grin:

This is a universe were living metal robots rise from destruction , demons appear and
the main imperial force cant shoot for shit , webways open and sadomasichistic elves
swoop in to do rude and unspeakable things to your pet kitten .

seriously just enjoy the game , dont try to apply real world mechanics as that way leads
to madness :biggrin:
 

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Discussion Starter #6
If you have never fired a gun your argument is void :p

the fact still remains you shoot a lot more accurately, having the gun aiming directly down your line of sight. I could shoot a 22 rifle (smallest and cheapest rounds ever) with a laser sight on the barrel and be fairly proficient with it at my hip (using the laser as my guide). However I am 10x quicker and more accurate with it at my line of sight.

Heres a way to think of it. Ever played those arcade games with the guns? When you point on the screen, you see an indicator where you are aiming. This is a means of aiming yes, and you can kill the baddies, but its more effective to actually hold it like a real gun and aim as such.

I guess Ima just sit back and agree with Arlin.
 

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As you said, there's probably a gunsight link between their power armor and the bolter. They could probably literally see down the gunsight without actually having to keep it at their shoulder.
 

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If you have never fired a gun your argument is void :p.
Well I have fired everything from a .22 to a 50 Cal. So I give your argument a go.


the fact still remains you shoot a lot more accurately, having the gun aiming directly down your line of sight. I could shoot a 22 rifle (smallest and cheapest rounds ever) with a laser sight on the barrel and be fairly proficient with it at my hip (using the laser as my guide). However I am 10x quicker and more accurate with it at my line of sight.
True, true, but I can shoot a revolver from my hip (something Ive been trying to do) and can hit the Mass body section at 20 ft well enough. Some assholes can quick draw those fukin things in both hands and hit the target at 30 ft damn well under 5 secs. How do you explain that Shit!? Oh wait I can, there that fuking good :laugh:.

It makes me sick :angry:

Heres a way to think of it. Ever played those arcade games with the guns? When you point on the screen, you see an indicator where you are aiming. This is a means of aiming yes, and you can kill the baddies, but its more effective to actually hold it like a real gun and aim as such.
For a Rifle aiming at the shoulder makes sense. Say a Shotgun it doesnt matter were the hell you aim. Yet they still have sights... weird.

I guess Ima just sit back and agree with Arlin.
Your forgetting important facts. They have a link to their gun with their visors. So why Aim witht he sights? They also wear PA and have Super Strength, so the gun kicking wont throw off the aim. Finally these assholes (like I said about some people earlier) are just that fuking good, seriously all they do is SHOOT and STAB shit all day every day. How can they not be that good?
 

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I suspect hailene is correct; the 3rd Edition Rules even show an "autosense sighting link" and refer to the front sight as a "backup kick sight." The only Space Marines who ever seem to bring firearms to their shoulders are scouts, and typically its a sniper rifle rather than a bolter.

I can't recall ever seeing a bolter referred to as a rifle in an official source, only as a bolter or boltgun, and since it isn't rifled, it would be a misnomer anyway. In general, a bolter seems to be used as in the role of an assault rifle or submachine gun, though with a full automatic setting and 30 round clip, it could be used in a light machine gun role as well.
 

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I suspect hailene is correct; the 3rd Edition Rules even show an "autosense sighting link" and refer to the front sight as a "backup kick sight." The only Space Marines who ever seem to bring firearms to their shoulders are scouts, and typically its a sniper rifle rather than a bolter.

I can't recall ever seeing a bolter referred to as a rifle in an official source, only as a bolter or boltgun, and since it isn't rifled, it would be a misnomer anyway. In general, a bolter seems to be used as in the role of an assault rifle or submachine gun, though with a full automatic setting and 30 round clip, it could be used in a light machine gun role as well.
 

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Given the heightened senses of a space marine, i think it is safe to assume that they can judge where to shoot fairly accurately. in one of the SW novels, the initiates can't shoot for shit and it takes them about 2 years training to master their weapons. if you lived every day shooting the same gun for 100 years, I think you would be a damn good shot too.
 

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If you wanna get technical I think a guns specifications are a much more minor fault than a lot of 40k.

As has been said, they have a link from their visor to their gun. Therefore eliminating the need to aim down the weapons sites. The scope on the gun is probably for when they take their helmets off and if the visor aiming fails somehow.

Plus they fire different ammo. Oh, and they are incredibly strong super humans where the recoil is probably not even noticed ;)

They also do this shit all their lives, which spans multiple lifetimes, so they will be pretty good at it.

I had another good point but I've forgotten :/

EDIT: oh yeah, if you fire from the hip I imagine you would be more agile (at least it seems like that, I've never fired a gun).
 

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The bolt is traveling a lot faster than 21st cent bullets as they have have a rocket source, this added speed would help to reduce deviation
Just wanted to point out how insane this statement was. Rocket propelled grenades by their very nature are a hell lot slower then rifle bullets, and no matter of sci-fi nonsense will change the fact.

Just look at the factors that would slow down a bolter round.
1: Air resistance.
2: Gravity (Weight is probably 100X that of a 308 round.

Matter of fact with very few exceptions bullets do to the incredible amount of acceleration offered by their firing method (Driven by a focused and sudden rapid explosion) are almost always with only a few exceptions drastically faster then a grenade rounds.

Hell in real life you can usually track the approach of mortars, rpg, and grenade launchers. While the fastest bullets will literally hit you before you eyes can process the visual stimuli that something is moving towards you.

On a less crazy note, has anyone thought of how many times marines would have to reload, and how many giant ass clips they could realistically hold? The largest clip save the drum feed or storm bolter are 20 shots, and the largest clip for the BP is 10. Looking at the size of the clips most marines seem to only carry 4-5 straight clips (with pouches). Which means that depending on the pattern of bolter their using most marines could only be able to fire 40-50 times before they ran out of ammo. Meaning in a prolonged fire fight marines would rapidly deplete their ammo supply.
 

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I don't think the speed of a bolt round has ever been "officially" established, though from the descriptions, I would expect the typical boltgun would have a muzzle velocity of less than 200m per second (656 ft/s) and a maximum sustained velocity of perhaps about 400-500m per second (1,312-1,640 ft/s). Velocity really isn't a problem, however, because as has been mentioned, bolters are typically used at relatively close range and have mass-reactive explosive warheads.

The sickle magazines of bolters carry 20-30 rounds, drum magazines carry 40-60 rounds, and straight magazines carry 12-20 rounds. I recall reading somewhere that Space Marines store clips behind their backpacks; I'm not sure if that's official and it seems somewhat awkward, but considering the lack of ammo pouches visible on Space Marines, it seems like the only possibility. Of course, Devastators carry a massive ammo pack and feeder on their backs.
 

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The sickle magazines of bolters carry 20-30 rounds, drum magazines carry 40-60 rounds, and straight magazines carry 12-20 rounds. I recall reading somewhere that Space Marines store clips behind their backpacks; I'm not sure if that's official and it seems somewhat awkward, but considering the lack of ammo pouches visible on Space Marines, it seems like the only possibility. Of course, Devastators carry a massive ammo pack and feeder on their backs.
If im remebering correctly in one of the SM buses it said that the char had some ammo in a conceled slot in his armor.
 

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And unlike modern automatic weapons where most of it is used as suppressing fire, marines tend to wade in and just shoot their target. They have the armor and training to make it feasible.

And not to mention a lot of their enemies don't bother taking cover (Orks, Tyranids...).
 

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I think the bolter is for killing as many enemies as possible and looking as cool as possible at the same time. Forget accurate shooting! just lay down a hailstorm and look awsome doing it! do bolters even have sights?
 

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The intro for the original DoW series that introduced the Necrons as a playable race, had an Astartes PoV from inside his helmet. Basically, wherever his muzzle is pointed shows up in his eyepiece as a reticule, eliminating the need to aim in the traditional manner. Of course, some might argue that this isn't what it's supposed to look like, but I though it made a lot of sense. It would be rather disconcerting to be shot by an Astartes who isn't even looking at you!

GFP
 
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