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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
So baron just posted this


Dark Angels (Legion I): Lion El'Jonson- Loyalist
---------- (Legion II): ----------
Emperor's Children (Legion III): Fulgrim- Traitor
Iron Warriors (Legion IV): Perturabo- Traitor
White Scars (Legion V): Jahatai Khan- Loyalist
Space Wolves (Legion VI): Leman Russ- Loyalist
Imperial Fists (Legion VII): Rogal Dorn- Loyalist (Dead)
Night Lords (Legion VIII): Konrad Curze/Night Haunter- Traitor (Dead)
Blood Angels (Legion IX): Sanguinius- Loyalist (Dead)
Iron Hands (Legion X): Ferrus Manus- Loyalist (Dead)
---------- (Legion XI): ----------
World Eaters (Legion XII): Angron- Traitor
Ultramarines (Legion XIII): Roboute Guilliman- Loyalist (Dead)
Death Guard (Legion XIV): Mortarion- Traitor
Thousand Sons (Legion XV): Magnus the Red- Traitor
Luna Wolves (Legion XVI): Horus Lupercal- Traitor
Word Bearers (Legion XVII): Lorgar- Traitor
Salamanders (Legion XVIII): Vulkan- Loyalist
Raven Guard (Legion XIX): Corax- Loyalist
Alpha Legion (Legion XX): Alpharius & Omegon- Traitor


All other chapters are derived from one of these Primarchs (with the possible exception of the Grey Knights), Imperial Space Marines are always founded from a loyalist Primarch, usually Guilliman, though there are rumours that the Blood Ravens are founded from Thousand Sons geneseed

edit: I hate you gen you dirty ninja :(

And it made me wonder

what exactly happened to each individual primarch as in where were they seen last and/or how did they die?
 

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Grand Lord Munchkin
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Dead
Dorn:shot to hell by traitors on a ship
Curze: killed by an assassin.
Sanguinius: Killed by horus
Ferrus: killed by Fulgrim
Guilliman: Stabed by the anitheme(maybe?)

Lost Loyals
Russ: in the Eye
Corax: In the eye
Khan: webway
Vulkan: Eye
Lion: sleepin

Traitors: On daemon worlds in the eye, probably.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
How did the traitor primarchs manage to kill so many loyal primarchs with only one of them dying (and not even to a brother but by a fucking assassin?)

also I meant like how did it happen? for example WHY THE FUCK WOULD DORN GO ONTO A SHIP FULL OF TRAITORS!? I understand that he went onto horus' warship but I thought that he was able to grab the Big E and get off the ship
 

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Oops I missed a Primarch, I didn't class Horus as dead- just in case you didn't know, Horus was bitch slapped into oblivion.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Lion El'Jonson- Sleeping deep within the Rock unbeknownst to any of the Dark Angels.

Fulgrim
- Possessed by a Daemon of Slaanesh (that's right, he's a Possessed Primarch not a Daemon Primarch) and residing on a Daemon World.

Perturabo
- Daemon Primarch residing on his fortress Daemon World of Medrengrad.

Jaghatai Khan
- Followed a Dark Eldar Kabal into the Webway.

Leman Russ- Last seen heading for the Eye of Terror with all his Wolf Guard bar Bjorn.

Rogal Dorn- Killed aboard the bridge of an enemy ship by Chaos Space Marines during the first Black Crusade (though I don't think it was Abaddon's 1st Black Crusade)- his actions stalled the Chaos Fleet for long enough that the Imperial Fists and Imperial Navy fleets pounced on the traitors before they could make it past Cadia, crushing them utterly.

Konrad Curze- Killed by the Calidus Assassin M'shen.

Sanguinus- Killed by Horus aboard the Vengeful Spirit.

Ferrus Manus
- Killed by Fulgrim on Isstvan V.

Angron- Daemon Primarch in the Eye of Terror, last seen at the First War for Armageddon.

Roboute Guilliman- Killed by Possessed Fulgrim, body held in stasis on Macragge.

Mortarion- Daemon Primarch who rules over a daemon world shaped in the image of his home world of Barbarus.

Magnus the Red- Daemon Primarch who rules the Planet of Sorcerors in the Eye of Terror.

Horus Lupercal
- Utterly destroyed by the Emperor, soul immolated by the Emperor's power.

Lorgar- Daemon Primarch who has remained inside his temple on the Word Bearers daemon world for over 9,000 years.

Vulkan- Missing, no knowledge of his whereabouts or when he disappeared.

Corax- Last seen heading for the Eye of Terror alone.

Alpharius/Omegon
- Conflicting reports, one, both or neither were killed post-Heresy.
 

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Grand Lord Munchkin
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Later. Not sure about dorn, could care less about the worthless sack, but ferrus was killed in the dropsite massacre where 3 loyalist legions were butchered in a supprise attack by several traitor legions. Guilly was ambushed by fulgrim during a battle that took place after the heresy and it was kind of a cheap shot. I forgot to add we took Horus down..... The rest just kind of left. Russ went to hunt down the traitors and a "treatment" for the emperor. Khan chased a group of DE into the webway. The lion was wounded and taken by the watchers in the dark.

Baron should fill you in on the gaps.

Edit: fuck! Ninja'd.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
why did Khan chase a group of DE? were they carrying a bone or something?
 

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Grand Lord Munchkin
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Get some men back.
 

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Craw-Daddy
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How did the traitor primarchs manage to kill so many loyal primarchs with only one of them dying (and not even to a brother but by a fucking assassin?)

also I meant like how did it happen? for example WHY THE FUCK WOULD DORN GO ONTO A SHIP FULL OF TRAITORS!? I understand that he went onto horus' warship but I thought that he was able to grab the Big E and get off the ship
Dorn was probably sent into a trap. But no one really knows. To give Dorn credit, he did buy time for the rest of the Imperial forces to get ready for against one of the Black Crusades.

As to the traitor primarchs, we can only guess.

Heres what I believe they are up too.

Mortarion: I have no idea, as he was basically forced to go to Nurgle or suffer a most horrible death. In the eye of terror probably hating himself and sending his legion to give the same suffering his legion and him suffered.

Angron: Wants to start another Dominion of Fire or just be part of Khornes greater game after being banished for so long. Either way, hes in love with what he has been given.

Fulgrim: speaking about the real fulgrim, I would say he is in constant agony as his soul is being tortured for all eternity. The daemon is probably living in a planet full of pleasure him being the king.

Magnus: Sitting in a tower loathing himself on The Planet of Sorcerers, and forcing himself in thinking about what he did and that he did the right choice.

Logar: Probably planning to rule all the chaos legions in the name of chaos, I think he's sitting in a temple just scheming about how to destroy the Imperium.

Perturabo: He is sitting in his fortress hating himself, wishing he and his legion had been in Dorn's place during siege of Terra

Alpharius: I honestly don't know

These are just my opinions though

Edit: Spikey and Gen beat me too it. damn you guys!
 

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I believe like Vulkan, Khan's homeworld was attacked by the Dark Eldar more than once. So to say that he had a bit of personal hatred for them would probably not be going to far all things considered. Edit - Or it could be that they raided his homeworld during the Heresy and stole thousands of his kinsmen; that works too.


In regards to Guilliman, wasn't he only wounded by Daemon Fulgrim and not actually killed? The blade itself was poisoned, and between the poison and the blow the wound was mortal, but before he could perish Guilliman was put into stasis. (Partially why there is hope that he will eventually heal and return even though that is impossible for so many reasons.)
 

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Grand Lord Munchkin
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I can live with that. Lol

@dark,
I believe we are calling him dead because the moment, or a few second later anyway, he was defrosted he would flatline.
 

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In regards to Guilliman, wasn't he only wounded by Daemon Fulgrim and not actually killed? The blade itself was poisoned, and between the poison and the blow the wound was mortal, but before he could perish Guilliman was put into stasis. (Partially why there is hope that he will eventually heal and return even though that is impossible for so many reasons.)
The actual wording in Index Astartes is that the Apothecaries put his body into stasis as he died- note how it's never the Ultramarines who claim he's healing only the pilgrims who visit Guilliman's shrine.

Considering Fulgrim had the Anathame in his possession and that was the blade that could kill any living creature, without the Chaos Gods it would have killed Horus, it's surmised that that was the sword used by the Possessed Primarch.
 

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Craw-Daddy
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Are you we sure Fulgrim had that blade. Cause I did some research of my own and it seems like it was destroyed.


A shudder of unadulterated terror passed through the M'kar as it turned its gaze upon Uriel and saw the glinting dagger he carried. Its eyes widened in recognition.
"The shard of Erebus!" Cried the daemon lord.
So I assume that this is the same Daemon Knife used to stab Horus. Unless its some other blade Erebus had that could banish a daemon prince that quick.

The blade was rippled along its length, grey like napped flint...
The Chapter's Due

Its blade was triangular in section and fashioned from some strange stone, like chipped flint with a glitter sheen to its edge.
Horus Rising

The similarities and its original owner seem quite the same. Do you think its coincidence or maybe BL screwed things around a little?
 

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Well I haven't read Chapter's Due yet (I know, I know I'm woefully behind in my BL acquisitions), but those events are separated by 10,000 years- the Anathame could easily have left Fulgrim's possession in that time in order for it to appear in Uriel Ventris' grasp.

We do know that Horus gave the blade to Fulgrim so for at least a time the Emperor's Children Primarch did own the 'Shard of Erebus', if it's the same weapon (which is certainly plausible given the description and name).
 

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Bane of Empires
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It doesn't really sound like this 'Shard of Erebus' is the Anathame to be honest (although like Spikey I havn't read Chapter's Due). Going by your post then ckcrawford:

The blade was rippled along its length, grey like napped flint...
'...grey like napped flint' to me seems to be describing its colour.

whilst:

Its blade was triangular in section and fashioned from some strange stone, like chipped flint with a glitter sheen to its edge.
Seems to me to indicate that the entire blade was '...fashioned from some strange stone' which resembled a blade of 'chipped flint'. Which in my mind therefore is describing two completely different weapons, both authors just using 'flint' to aid in their description.

Also why would the Anathame be referred to as the 'Shard of Erebus' and why would Daemons fear it so much?

Just my thoughts. :p
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
If it is one and the same it would be interesting to note that it can destroy (or at least banish) any creature, whether they're from this dimension or not- truly it could be classed as the most powerful, non-daemon, blade imaginable.
now how exactly did the kinebranch get bitchslapped when they had these weapons?
 

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They were weapons that were so lethal they were locked away, similar to the way you don't see us chucking nukes around just because they make a nice 'boom' noise.

The Kinebrach as a civilisation were old and tired, they more than happily integrated with the much younger and energetic human civilisation to form the Interex- it wasn't that they were bitch slapped, they'd simply become a very apathetic people in a certain sense.
 

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The Emperor Protects
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Plus the Interex were very anti-chaos, and if the anathame is indeed a deamon blade, then they probably didnt use it for that very reason.

Back to the Primarchs.

Rogal Dorn like has been said was killed storming the bridge of the Sword of Sacrilege to buy time for the rest of the Imperials to catch the fleet. His body is encased in Amber on the Phalanx in a chapel, where as his hands are kept in two seperate shrines, with the heraldry of previous chapter masters engraved into the hands.

Vulkan is still completely unknown. He was said to have been present after the Heresy to object to the breaking of the legions into chapters. But the last sighting of him so far in the fluff was in the middle of a titanic explosion on Istvaan V.

Alpharius and Omegon are both unknown. On the planet of Eskrador the Ultramarines led by Guilliman himself fought the Alpha Legion. Guilliman managed to find Alpharius in combat and kill him with one strike. The Ultramarines though this would break the Alpha Legions morale but they kept on going and soundly beat the Ultramarines who retreated and bombarded the planet instead. The account of Guillimans battle is widely considered suspect even by the Ultramrines themselves. Alpharius was well known for using decoys all the time, and it seems strange to see him killed so quickly. And with the revelations of Legion this still leaves at least Alpharius or Omegon at large depending on which one was killed, if either of them were at all. But since that battle there has been no sightings of either of the Primarchs.

Night Haunter or Konrad Curze did let himself get assassinated by M'Shen. You've got to remember Curze was a very distrubed individual and some even say possibly schizophrenic. Either way he let M'Shen assassinate him to prove a point. To quote Curze himself "Your presence does not surprise me, Assassin. I have known of you ever since your craft entered the Eastern Fringes. Why did I not have you killed? Because your mission and the act you are about to commit proves the truth of all I have ever said or done. I merely punished those who had wronged, just as your false Emperor now seeks to punish me. Death is nothing compared to vindication." Although there were still some who believed he may not be dead as M'Shens vid feed cut off as she launched herself at Curze and she was never seen or heard from again. But since the book Soul Hunter came out, there cant really be any denying it. He had become the exact thing he sought to destroy, and so had to be destroyed himself.

Roboute Guilliman exactly like Baron said, it's only the pilgrims and such that claim he is healing. Didn't Ventris himself state he did not believe it?
 
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