[zerachiel76]

As we learn in Mortarion's Heart, Mortarion was originally going to have another name given to him by the Emperor. I wonder if the Grey Knights have the list of all the true names of the Daemon Primarchs which is why they have had successes against both Mortarion and Angron. Otherwise I see the Grey Knights being totally outmatched especially against Angron who I would think is immune to psychic powers due to having a Collar of Khorne (if he's not got one, this is a slight oversight).

I would love it if all the Primarch's true names were published someday. It would be hilarious to find out Angron was going to be called Kevin or Magnus was going to be called Brian

 

[ckcrawford]

I imagine that many of the primarchs are only mentioned by one name. It can be assumed that they also had a last name or family name from their adopted parents. I think the family name means a lot because it represents all they achieved in a long legacy within their family. It seemed like Mortarion resented his, however, I'm sure its still something that means something to him.

 

[Over Two Meters Tall!]

With a relative straight face, in Deliverance Lost, we get the view of the oversized apartments buried under the Himalays with one for each Primarch... hmmm, I wonder if the XX would have twin beds? Perhaps they have little name plates over the entry into each with their true names.

 

[MidnightSun]

Otherwise I see the Grey Knights being totally outmatched especially against Angron

Eheheheheh

 

[zerachiel76]

Eheheheheh

Just to clarify, are you agreeing or disagreeing while laughing :grin:

 

[Vaz]

The Grey knights sacrificed a company to banish Angron for 1000 years back to the warp during the first war for Armageddon. At this time, the Grey Knights were not like the Space Marine Chapter they are presented as in todays fluff. They were a lot more elite, and a lot fluff-wise, stronger.

Angron was joined by a dozen Bloothirsters as his personal retinue.

However, this was 4 editions ago. With the new information regarding the Primarch's abilities, and the Grey Knights as well, I find it hard to imagine exactly how the Grey Knights were able to pull this off.

Considering the fluff of how powerful Bloodthirsters are, the maths do not really support it - a Bloodthirster would only be able kill 7-8 Grey Knights before dying. Just doesn't make sense. And the fact that Angron is just so powerful as well. It's an old outdated piece of fluff that people like to bring up to verify how powerful their army is.

Consider that during the Heresy, for example, Angron was capable as a human of wiping out entire company sized units (a company in 30K was around 500-1000 marines, most of them in excess of 200 years old, and veterans of the Great Crusade, being taught by those who have learned from the Primarch's teachings if not personally, then by those who most likely did - in other words, about as capable as the normal space marine chapter veterans as the standard line trooper). The Iron Hands lost an entire company described as being 1000 strong to the presence of a simple daemon. The fluff that 13 of the greatest soldiers in Khorne's followers short of An'ggrath or Ka'Bandha were cut down by a measly 100 space marines doesn't ring true.

 

[hailene]

Consider that during the Heresy, for example, Angron was capable as a human of wiping out entire company sized units

Could you give me the quote on this? I know we've seen Angron butcher his way through a lot of Space Marines (slaughtering them left and right with each swing of his axes), but I don't know if we're given specific numbers.

The Iron Hands lost an entire company described as being 1000 strong to the presence of a simple daemon.

I haven't read too much IH fluff. When did this happen?

fluff that 13 of the greatest soldiers in Khorne's followers short of An'ggrath or Ka'Bandha were cut down by a measly 100 space marines doesn't ring true.

Rock paper scissors sort of deal, I think. The daemons have incredible fighting potential, but the Grey Knights were deliberately created as their hard counter.

 

[Vaz]

I'll have to dig out a few books. Mostly within the Heresy novels - Betrayer mainly, but Galaxy in Flames is another one of where he takes a role in the combat. I've not read that in a while. I know that's not exactly the proof you wish, but it's all I can offer at the minute. I will make note that this is during conflicts where he would have his legions at his "back" - although was it Betrayer where it detailed the fight with Russ? IIRC, he was able to cut himself a path to Russ, but because his legion fought their personal battles rather than commiting to the objective, they would have seen Angron killed, even if Russ had been killed.

In regards to the IH fluff, it's in the Damnation of Pythos. I personally believe it's a complete PoS novel, and for all the novel cared about, there might as well have been a half dozen Iron Hands, as there's no sense of larger legion operations - although it was mentioned that an entire company in excess of 1000 marines all told were lost.

I originally thought about that - but if all it took would be 8 Grey Knights (it's not clear if they were all Terminators or not) to kill Angron, who is one of, if not the greatest, of all of Khornes followers, then all it would take is a combat squad of grey knights to cut through a full fledged warp tear.

 

[MidnightSun]

I originally thought about that - but if all it took would be 8 Grey Knights (it's not clear if they were all Terminators or not) to kill Angron, who is one of, if not the greatest, of all of Khornes followers, then all it would take is a combat squad of grey knights to cut through a full fledged warp tear.

Eh, they only banished him, and it wasn't even for that long.

I like it. Angron as a Daemon Primarch could walk through absolutely anything the forces on Armageddon could throw at him other than the Grey Knights, whereas if he were just a regular Primarch he would have been far less vulnerable to the Grey Knights but more vulnerable to the battle cannons and vulcan mega-bolters of the Imperium.

 

[hailene]

IIRC, he was able to cut himself a path to Rus

I wasn't able to find any particular listing of Angron single-handedly killing his way through a thousand or so Space Marines, but in Betrayer, he started the fight within weapon's reach of Russ.

"Both Legions tensed. Thousands and thousands of warriors clutched bolters and chainweapons tighter. Lhorke had even taken a step back, his joints loud in the sudden silence. Russ felt no such hesitation. He drew his blade and launched at Angron, only to be met with the World Eater’s axe blocking the blow."

In regards to the IH fluff, it's in the Damnation of Pythos.

Haven't read it. And from what you've said, looks like I saved a couple of hours.

I originally thought about that - but if all it took would be 8 Grey Knights (it's not clear if they were all Terminators or not) to kill Angron, who is one of, if not the greatest, of all of Khornes followers, then all it would take is a combat squad of grey knights to cut through a full fledged warp tear.

Most definitely took more than just 8. Every GK on the field that didn't die in the initial charge fought Angron. Almost definitely over a 100 of them. Plus they didn't even kill him, simply banished him.

Also take note that Angron absolutely murdered 5 of the GK terminators without a modicum of effort. ADB described the slaughter of the 5-man squad with less effort than a man would need to kill an insect.

I think it was Hyperion's breaking of the Black Blade that gave them any hope of victory.

Don't forget how rare a Grey Knight is. All of them are psykers--which makes them incredibly rare already. Then of those, only one of a million psykers brought to Titan actually become a Grey Knight. A million out of a million. Out of a trillion souls, only one is worthy to become a Grey Knight.

 

[Vaz]

Faulty old memory not working apparently. And it's been a long while since I've read the Emperor's Gift, might have to dig it out again...